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:surprise: Geez Rex, I thought I was one of of the old guy's - You got me beat big time - :wink2:
K&N KN 204 Oil Filters = Bad News!!
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:surprise: Geez Rex, I thought I was one of of the old guy's - You got me beat big time - :wink2:
You can dump it into a clean pan and put it back in.
There won't be much anyways, the oil filter sits pretty high above the oil level. Not much will come out when you remove the filter.
Your odds of survival are pretty high if you decide not to mess with it and leave it on though. I mean, as long as you didn't exert any clockwise torque on the nut, of course
There won't be much anyways, the oil filter sits pretty high above the oil level. Not much will come out when you remove the filter.
Your odds of survival are pretty high if you decide not to mess with it and leave it on though. I mean, as long as you didn't exert any clockwise torque on the nut, of course
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It was one batch of KN204 filters that was bad. NOT THE ENTIRE PRODUCT LINE!!! K&N produces oil filters with the same exact welded 17mm nut for dozens, if not hundreds of different motorcycles. I'm not surprised that there are some old inventory of bad filters still out there, especially with generic vendors who do not move a lot of Triumph parts.
Look at the bottom of your leaky filter and examine it for any signs it was crushed a wee bit from the use of a floor jack. That's how I broke my filter... by being careless when jacking up the bike.
/M
Look at the bottom of your leaky filter and examine it for any signs it was crushed a wee bit from the use of a floor jack. That's how I broke my filter... by being careless when jacking up the bike.
/M
Ok, good to know. And I swear I didn’t use the nut to tighten it. I swear. Honest. :|You can dump it into a clean pan and put it back in.
There won't be much anyways, the oil filter sits pretty high above the oil level. Not much will come out when you remove the filter.
Your odds of survival are pretty high if you decide not to mess with it and leave it on though. I mean, as long as you didn't exert any clockwise torque on the nut, of course
Alright, as a preface let me say I know I'm a nerd. Quite possibly a loser too.
So, I went out and bought a KN-204. Don't worry, I didn't let it near my motorcycle, given how dangerous they are. I took my car, and kept it in the trunk.
First of all, there are no warnings on it, box or filter, about using the nut to install. Actually, there are no instructions at all. Not even the typical 1/2 to 3/4 turns after the gasket makes contact (which 10Nm will get you). I suspect you could to that with your hands or with a wrench.
Second, the nut doesn't protrude as much as I expected. It's because the canister itself is smaller than OEM. I guess the fact it has less filtering capacity is made up for by it's superior filtering media? But that nut extends about 1/8", maybe 3/16", further than the OEM filter. I took a straight edge to the bottom of my bike and my OEM filter sits exactly flush if I run the edge rail-rail. Which probably just means I crushed it a little bit when using my floor jack at some point. So the nut is subject to a bit of abuse if you use the jack wrong, not much. Hard to imagine it getting knocked by a curbstone or anything.
![2018-07-28 19.23.00.jpg]()
I fully was going to take a torque wrench to that nut and see how much it could withstand. Because I'm pretty sure it can take 10Nm without an issue, being that it's not make out of tissue paper or similar. But ... the damn thing cost me $19 plus change So I'm going to end the scientific study before I get to the destructive testing stage I'll return it tomorrow.
I've never had an issue with removing a filter, I don't need that nut or the extra expense or less filtering medium. I'll stick to OEM, or a Mobil M1-108 if I can't find that.
So, I went out and bought a KN-204. Don't worry, I didn't let it near my motorcycle, given how dangerous they are. I took my car, and kept it in the trunk.
First of all, there are no warnings on it, box or filter, about using the nut to install. Actually, there are no instructions at all. Not even the typical 1/2 to 3/4 turns after the gasket makes contact (which 10Nm will get you). I suspect you could to that with your hands or with a wrench.
Second, the nut doesn't protrude as much as I expected. It's because the canister itself is smaller than OEM. I guess the fact it has less filtering capacity is made up for by it's superior filtering media? But that nut extends about 1/8", maybe 3/16", further than the OEM filter. I took a straight edge to the bottom of my bike and my OEM filter sits exactly flush if I run the edge rail-rail. Which probably just means I crushed it a little bit when using my floor jack at some point. So the nut is subject to a bit of abuse if you use the jack wrong, not much. Hard to imagine it getting knocked by a curbstone or anything.
I fully was going to take a torque wrench to that nut and see how much it could withstand. Because I'm pretty sure it can take 10Nm without an issue, being that it's not make out of tissue paper or similar. But ... the damn thing cost me $19 plus change
So I'm going to end the scientific study before I get to the destructive testing stage I'll return it tomorrow.I've never had an issue with removing a filter, I don't need that nut or the extra expense or less filtering medium. I'll stick to OEM, or a Mobil M1-108 if I can't find that.
I've always liked K&Ns. Not because I think they are any better than any other brand, but mainly because I could always find the ones I needed fairly easily, regardless of the make/model of bike. I suppose if I ever do have a failure I would switch to something else, but can see no reason to now.
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I gotta agree. I am almost 73 years old, worked on engines all my life. I have NEVER torqued an oil filter in my life. (hand tighten only). I don't like K&N's oil soaked screen door they call an air filter, so I don't buy thier oil filters either. Funny thing, I don't have oil running out of any of my bikes either. ...J.D.
I hand tighten all oil filters until I can just barely break it loose. I figure my strength will maintain enough to remove it the next time without tools and so far that's worked out well. Of course, you can't beat following a torque spec but I'll take my chances.
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If only the above were true. Fact is these filters have had failing weld nuts going back to at least 2012... just Google for reports dating back then. And not just the 204 version on our bikes...cars too.
Solution looking for an actual problem! Poor QC, poorer concept to put a hex nut on something with expectation to only be used in one direction. Can anyone think of another situation where a hex nut is only for one direction?
I checked my filter on the S3 RS and it seems to be fine. I don't know I am pretty anal about torque specs etc but I never torqued down an oil filter either on a motorcycle or a car. I just do the good old hand 3/4 to full turn once the o-ring comes into contact.
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ONCE AGAIN, I repeat: These are single isolated reports of failed filters -before- the one (1) bad batch of KN204's run a couple years ago. The one (1) bad batch affected hundreds of filters out of the 10's of thousands K&N sells annually using the exact 17mm nut and welding process.
It is my strongest belief that the vast majority of these isolated failures are a result of misuse (such as overtightening the filter using the nut or crushing the filter with a floor jack (very easy to do on a Hinckley twin).
Understand, I'm just trying to bring some industry insider perceptive to the subject. Yes, I sell these filters, so I have skin in the game. But who else on the board can say that they met face-to-face with key management from K&N and discussed this specific subject? K&N is not evil. They DO care very much about their customers. They're an international (I'd guess) Billion dollar corporation with staggering product liability exposure. To say they knowingly produce a defective product that can potentially harm people is naive & laughable. But are those who will say otherwise.
/M
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So say you and the corporation. Sorry, that's not good enough. Fro
The IMPARTIAL perspective, looks very much like these filters have been showing failures for nearly a decade now. We have know way of knowing true numbers involved, reports on Web are sporadic and no way to get at real scale of the problem. Your belief vast majority are due to improper installation once again raises the spector of a bad design leading to dangerous improper use. Putting a warning label to tell users to only use nut for removal is like telling people that the zipper on their jeans is for taki.g off the pant only. Stupid. This is completely at the feet of K&N to redesign or remove these from the market.
If they are so concerned for their customers why not design them so it doesn't matter if they are wrenched on? Problem solved! Or, why not redesign so there's some kind of one way ratchet on the nut to prevent Wrenching on? Problem Solved. Or pull them off market and problem solved.
How long before we hear of a serious accident/death from these things?
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1,534 Posts
Please, if you are so concerned about this alleged issue, you should take K&N to court, or contact your government
to have the K&N 204 filter outlawed in Canada!
Be assured that there more people using the K&K 204 filters without issue than there are with problems.
Rex
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OH, FOR PETE'S SAKE...………...JUST BUY A DIFFERENT FILTER!!! This has become a "tempest in a teapot"! Anyone want to "discuss" the best oil to use in the bikes??
Just the considered opinion of the "village idiot": Jim
Just the considered opinion of the "village idiot": Jim
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1,534 Posts
No it's Trump. Putin is just his handler...:laugh2:Personally, I think Putin is behind all this K&N bashing.
Personally, I've used K&N filters off and on for decades and have never had a failure. If the problem was as widespread as some believe, I think I'd have run into at least one bad filter by now.
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