[Clegg]

I also made a spreadsheet for my valve shim job if anyone else wants to use it. Uses the calc that Champ posted and worked out well for me ordering and verifying my targets for shims. Its attached in a Zip, since the forum wont let you attach XLS files.

 

[MileHighScottie]

I'd like it please. I am thinking of checking the valves on both of my 2003s even though they don't have miles yet to require a check... But they definitely do by years.

I also have a full set of Hot Cams 9.48mm shims. My Kawasaki ZRX uses the same diameter shims, albeit on the thicker end of the box

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[abbarach]

So my dad and I spent the last two Sundays checking the clearances on my bike. We got everything apart OK, and all the clearances were to the middle to loose end of the spec. We did not make any adjustments; just replaced all the seals we could get to (cam ladder spark plug well seals, cam cover seal itself, as well as the coil seals, and one of the "airbox trumpets" that had degraded and needed to be replaced). As far as we were aware, nothing went awry during the process at all.

Upon starting the bike up there's an alarmingly loud clatter. I don't hear it while the starter is running, but as soon as the engine catches and it starts idling it's very obvious. It's much louder than anything I'd previously heard, and since we didn't actually touch any of the valves I can't imagine that it's valve-related. My first thought was one of the SAI dowels may have fallen into the cam area, but especially with the new gasket they were all pretty snug in the cam cover, so I don't think it's very likely, but I really don't know what else could be causing it.

Right now the plan is to tear back into it next weekend and see what we can find; does anyone have any other ideas or possible causes? We started the bike up 2-3 times for maybe 10-20 seconds tops; I checked in gear/out of gear, clutch in/clutch out, none of it seemed to make a difference. I can start it again and get a video if anyone thinks it would help diagnose, but I've very hesitant to run the bike with this noise...

 

[1/2 japanese]

So my dad and I spent the last two Sundays checking the clearances on my bike. We got everything apart OK, and all the clearances were to the middle to loose end of the spec. We did not make any adjustments; just replaced all the seals we could get to (cam ladder spark plug well seals, cam cover seal itself, as well as the coil seals, and one of the "airbox trumpets" that had degraded and needed to be replaced). As far as we were aware, nothing went awry during the process at all.

Upon starting the bike up there's an alarmingly loud clatter. I don't hear it while the starter is running, but as soon as the engine catches and it starts idling it's very obvious. It's much louder than anything I'd previously heard, and since we didn't actually touch any of the valves I can't imagine that it's valve-related. My first thought was one of the SAI dowels may have fallen into the cam area, but especially with the new gasket they were all pretty snug in the cam cover, so I don't think it's very likely, but I really don't know what else could be causing it.

Right now the plan is to tear back into it next weekend and see what we can find; does anyone have any other ideas or possible causes? We started the bike up 2-3 times for maybe 10-20 seconds tops; I checked in gear/out of gear, clutch in/clutch out, none of it seemed to make a difference. I can start it again and get a video if anyone thinks it would help diagnose, but I've very hesitant to run the bike with this noise...

Not sure if you removed/displaced the cam chain for any reason but when I last adjusted my valves and put everything back together, my cam chain was off by one tooth. That caused my bike to run horribly and shudder and stumble at any rev under 3000rpm. I'm guessing that likely isn't the case for you since you don't need to touch the cam chain if you're just checking the clearances versus adjusting them, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

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[abbarach]

Not sure if you removed/displaced the cam chain for any reason but when I last adjusted my valves and put everything back together, my cam chain was off by one tooth. That caused my bike to run horribly and shudder and stumble at any rev under 3000rpm. I'm guessing that likely isn't the case for you since you don't need to touch the cam chain if you're just checking the clearances versus adjusting them, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

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Nope, we didn't have to touch the chain or the tensioner. If it's not the SAI dowel bouncing around, then I really have no idea what it could be. We're going to tear it back down and have a look (at a minimum we need to rule out the dowel, or any other foreign body bouncing around under the valve cover.) I plan to check the timing alignment marks when we do so, just as an extra sanity check.

I even went back through in my head to make sure I turned the engine in the driven direction, and not backwards, as we needed to rotate it to check clearances. With the ratcheting tensioner I'm not sure if going backwards with it could cause an issue; I guess if the initial inspection doesn't turn up a cause it wouldn't hurt to pull the tensioner, reset and reinstall it, just to be sure.

 

[abbarach]

I have the valve cover back off. All 3 of the SAI dowels were in place where there should be, I can't find any other object under the valve cover that could be bouncing around, I inspected the timing and it all lines up. There's fresh oil on everything under the cover. Cam chain seems to still be under tension, but I'm going to wait until my dad is back this Sunday and can take another look at it with me before I go any further.

I'm stumped. At this point I'm seriously hoping that none of the engine internals decided to randomly explode on me at just the wrong time, but I can't figure out what else it could be.

This time when we put it back together and start it up I'm going to have someone take some video, so I'll at least have something to post to demonstrate the noise, and maybe solicit some more ideas.

 

[1/2 japanese]

I have the valve cover back off. All 3 of the SAI dowels were in place where there should be, I can't find any other object under the valve cover that could be bouncing around, I inspected the timing and it all lines up. There's fresh oil on everything under the cover. Cam chain seems to still be under tension, but I'm going to wait until my dad is back this Sunday and can take another look at it with me before I go any further.

I'm stumped. At this point I'm seriously hoping that none of the engine internals decided to randomly explode on me at just the wrong time, but I can't figure out what else it could be.

This time when we put it back together and start it up I'm going to have someone take some video, so I'll at least have something to post to demonstrate the noise, and maybe solicit some more ideas.

Yes I think shooting video of it and trying to isolate the sound (location and type) will really help and with some luck and input from the veteran mechanics here, you will get some ideas and insight. I wish I could be of more help. I'm still learning things myself. Really sorry you have to go through this man... Just remember you will learn and grow from this and when you've got this all sorted out, your next ride on your bike will be a pretty sweet reward. Good luck and I'll keep an eye on this thread. Very interested to know what it turns out to be.

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[abbarach]

May have pinned down the issue, or at least isolated where it ISN'T. I wasn't planning on doing anything today, but realized I'd left the spark plugs out after some testing the other day, so I was going to reinstall just to seal up the tops of the cylinders. I pulled out my copy of the Service Data Sheet to get the plug torque, and noticed that it had a tightening sequence and torque values for the valve cover that were different than mentioned in the factory service manual. I temporarily reinstalled the valve cover using the tightening sequence and torque values from the SDS, set the tank on top and loosely connected it, and started it up. Blissful silence!

I don't know that I can say for certain that the torque (which was about 40% higher) and tightening sequence are what made the difference. It could well be something else that I just haven't put back on yet that was vibrating against something else. But at a minimum I now know that the engine itself isn't causing the noise, and I'll properly reinstall the valve cover with fresh RTV tomorrow, and then test after each group of parts go back on to see if the noise comes back or not

So I guess at a minimum, heads up everyone, there's a difference between the factory service manual (which I think I found a link and downloaded from here somewhere) and the Service Data Sheet that was linked from the thread discussing the spec change for the drive chain... and especially if you're replacing gaskets with fresh rubber ones, there may well be an advantage to using the higher spec and sequence from the SDS...

 

[abbarach]

And as a final follow-up, we put everything back together today, testing at each step of the way. We never had the noise come back. So the only conclusion I can come to is that it was either the valve cover torque, or we put something back together wrong the first time, and then subsequently put it back correctly the second time. Either way, it's back running the way it should be, so I'm happy.

 

[Daddy Mac]

Thanks again for this thread. I'm sure it took a good deal of your time to document it so well. I will be using it as a guide to help me through my own 20K mile valve adjustment. Members of this forum rule.

 

[champ87]

Thanks again for this thread. I'm sure it took a good deal of your time to document it so well. I will be using it as a guide to help me through my own 20K mile valve adjustment. Members of this forum rule.

Thanks. Yes, it did take some work to put together but I viewed it as repayment for all the help and information I took away from this forum. Good to see that 8 years later owners are still finding it useful.

Originally, it was intended to help those who were thinking about valve adjustment but had never done it before. I realized it's also useful to those who are comfortable with valve adjustment but just needed to see details of the triple. In each case I hoped that when they pulled off the cam cover off it would look familiar.

Later, I discovered that it can also be useful to those who have no intention of checking or adjusting valves. Just seeing what is involved can give a better understanding of what the dealer is charging for.

 

[Westozbob]

Just finished this h
thanks for the write up , one thing I noticed was that the manual says on refit , turn the motor over 4 times before refitting the chain tensioner, you and I did the opposite! can't see it making any real difference although I didn't fit the spring, just pushed the plunger in until all was completed. Funny also how the manual has a lot of pictures of the rocker gasket with two extra holes in it. :wink2:Bob

 

[Rotorheadmech]

Champ 88
Excellent write up! Your technical writing format and skills are the among the best I have seen in any of these forums. Really appreciated! Easy to follow with lots of tips. I found the Haynes manual to be a bit of a challenge to follow sometimes. I may be reading too much into your casual reference to "bending moment", but it validated your technical/engineering skills. Unfortunately I have pitted exhaust valves in my ST1050 which in the #2 cylinder leak so bad I have low to no compression. I am in the process of reassembly of my head and found your article. Thanks again!!

 

[champ87]

Thanks for the kind words – I reread your comments 335 times! Seriously though, it is very satisfying to know that others find this stuff helpful. The comment about bending moment doesn’t deserve much thought. Stresses on the camshaft during teardown/rebuild aren’t a real concern but, the cam has to be positioned somewhere, so it might as well be at the point where the marks are aligned which, coincidentally, places the least stress on the cam.

Over the past 20 years or so, digital cameras have made it so easy to take dozens of pictures to aid re-assembly or simply record what was done. I’ve always been quite good at keeping notes too, so it only needed a little extra effort to combine notes and pics in a thread to share with others. Now it’s gone a step further. My latest project is to add one of DEcosse’s excellent keyless ignition systems to my Kawasaki H2 SX. I wrote a little installation guide for that. Here’s the thing though – I wrote it before I started the project. It’s amazing how much it helps to write it all out before starting a major task or new project. Thinking through what needs to be done and writing it down, as if explaining to someone else, really helps me to focus. Using that as a guide to do the actual work highlights where my notes can be improved before I share.

That’s something for others to think about. Even if you don’t intend posting, there’s still something to be gained from writing it all down. If you do share then seeing others benefit is a bonus.

 

[fredsprint]

Hi Champ,


I am in the process of ...


Can you enlighten me on the sentence: The next task was to remove the cam chain tensioner. I supported the tensioner blade using a piece of wood as recommended by the maintenance manual.



I don't get where to put this piece of wood. Can you explain me please?


I currently measured all the plays and am about to remove the shafts.



First time I have shims to change. Never had to on the 955 in 60kkm.


Fred

 

[champ87]

Can you enlighten me on the sentence: The next task was to remove the cam chain tensioner. I supported the tensioner blade using a piece of wood as recommended by the maintenance manual.

I don't get where to put this piece of wood. Can you explain me please?

Yes. The piece of wood just holds the tensioner blade against the chain while the tensioner is removed - as recommended in the factory service manual. The recommendation is probably intended to avoid disturbing the chain and cams when the tensioner is removed so it seems a pointless exercise if you're removing the cams to adjust valves anyway.

 

[fredsprint]

OK thanks.



Yes I removed them.


Another point: I can't find any indication about the minimum spring length in the workshop manual or even the max position of the ratchet indicating the chain is worn out. Did you find that?



Fred

 

[fredsprint]

Great picture BTW. Very helpful.



Fred

 

[champ87]

Another point: I can't find any indication about the minimum spring length in the workshop manual or even the max position of the ratchet indicating the chain is worn out. Did you find that?

Cam chain wear is checked by visual inspection or measuring the links. Measuring can only be done with the chain removed.

 

[fredsprint]

OK, thanks. That 's corresponding to what I saw in the manual. I though I read somewhere that there was a min length for the spring.



My ratchet was at the half of the total length. So it's probably OK.



Fred