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Sprag clutch?

853 views 15 replies 4 participants last post by  Napier  
#1 ·
Bike cranked over this morning for 10 seconds but did not start. Tried a few times with fully charged battery until the bike simply refuses to start. Tune ECU diagnostics reports no errors. Fuel pump powers up, etc.
Started to hear some light "clank" every now and then when in first pulling away in first from dead stop. I thought it was time to change clutch plates. I tried pulling away while slipping the clutch and did not get any mechanical sounds, just when pulling away normally. I put the bike on centre stand and ran through the gears up & down into neutral with engine running with no clank or sounds from bottom of engine. Is this my sprag clutch? I have never experienced anything like this before. Will a bike start with a bad sprag?
 
#2 ·
Just so I understand, you’re talking about the sprag clutch (a one-way flywheel, really) that connects starter motor to the crankshaft to start the bike, but then about the clutch (disengaged by squeezing the left hand lever) that connects the crank to the drive gears. The two very different clutches are not related at all. Am I missing something?
 
#4 ·
I went thorough 2 sprags on my 05/06. Both times the idler gears had broken teeth. The first sprag was the tiny one that came stock in 05. The second was the upgraded replacement one that became stock around 06 or 07. Same part number. In both cases the idler gears had broken. When the first one failed I was clueless. It would refuse to turn as if dead, or after a few tries start fine or start with some clanking, maybe grabbing and letting go. Eventually, it refused to turn over at all as if frozen. It had power to the starter. I jumped it from a truck. It turned very slowly but I felt the starter would overheat Took the plugs out. It turned over fine then. I felt the crank was ok. I took the cover off. The sprag had a kink in the retaining spring holding the cogs in place. It jammed and wouldn't spin free either way. I got new gears from a recycler for pennies.
Second failure, it made a big clank but started. It would start but every once in a while would catch and let go, clank, or just not turn over at all as if dead. Again. I'd move the wheel with it in gear. Kept trying using an car battery. It would suddenly start like before. Knew something was off. Assumed it was the sprag. That sprag (an upgraded one), proved to be Ok but the idler gears were broken again. I couldn't find any at recyclers. I looked at Hermys web page, they were listed as not available. Their site had nothing listed for the series. I called and was able to order a spares kit. It came with new side cover, starter, gears, sprag, gaskets, all parts being much bigger, hence the side covers.
I suggest you take the cover off and see what you have. There's nothing to lose. FYI no instructions are included. Therefore, when I put the new parts on I dry fitted things with no gaskets, nothing was tightened down. I tried using the old wave washers. They made it hard to turn the idler gears with my fingers, a lot of drag. Without them, it worked smoothly. So, I assembled it with the new parts provided, leaving them off. They aren't included in the kit. I figure they would be if needed. The kit is complete with everything.
Why not take the cover off and see what you have. There is nothing to lose. You can always make a new gasket or just be careful and use a skim of gasket cement if it isn't the problem. If you take the sprag off make careful note how the splines line up or it can take an hour of fiddling to line the key up with the slot. When sprags work, they spin free one way but not the other. Don't force anything. It all fits like a watch. It should only take a few hours if you've never done it before. You'll need to restrain the wheel with it in gear to get the bolt out of the sprag and to torque the new one. I did it with a strap, blocks, and tied the brake down. Others have written they put wood into the sproket; I don't know about that. You need a breaker bar and a torque wrech. Mine wasn't super tight. Good luck.
 
#5 ·
I went thorough 2 sprags on my 05/06. Both times the idler gears had broken teeth. The first sprag was the tiny one that came stock in 05. The second was the upgraded replacement one that became stock around 06 or 07. Same part number. In both cases the idler gears had broken. When the first one failed I was clueless. It would refuse to turn as if dead, or after a few tries start fine or start with some clanking, maybe grabbing and letting go. Eventually, it refused to turn over at all as if frozen. It had power to the starter. I jumped it from a truck. It turned very slowly but I felt the starter would overheat Took the plugs out. It turned over fine then. I felt the crank was ok. I took the cover off. The sprag had a kink in the retaining spring holding the cogs in place. It jammed and wouldn't spin free either way. I got new gears from a recycler for pennies.
Second failure, it made a big clank but started. It would start but every once in a while would catch and let go, clank, or just not turn over at all as if dead. Again. I'd move the wheel with it in gear. Kept trying using an car battery. It would suddenly start like before. Knew something was off. Assumed it was the sprag. That sprag (an upgraded one), proved to be Ok but the idler gears were broken again. I couldn't find any at recyclers. I looked at Hermys web page, they were listed as not available. Their site had nothing listed for the series. I called and was able to order a spares kit. It came with new side cover, starter, gears, sprag, gaskets, all parts being much bigger, hence the side covers.
I suggest you take the cover off and see what you have. There's nothing to lose. FYI no instructions are included. Therefore, when I put the new parts on I dry fitted things with no gaskets, nothing was tightened down. I tried using the old wave washers. They made it hard to turn the idler gears with my fingers, a lot of drag. Without them, it worked smoothly. So, I assembled it with the new parts provided, leaving them off. They aren't included in the kit. I figure they would be if needed. The kit is complete with everything.
Why not take the cover off and see what you have. There is nothing to lose. You can always make a new gasket or just be careful and use a skim of gasket cement if it isn't the problem. If you take the sprag off make careful note how the splines line up or it can take an hour of fiddling to line the key up with the slot. When sprags work, they spin free one way but not the other. Don't force anything. It all fits like a watch. It should only take a few hours if you've never done it before. You'll need to restrain the wheel with it in gear to get the bolt out of the sprag and to torque the new one. I did it with a strap, blocks, and tied the brake down. Others have written they put wood into the sproket; I don't know about that. You need a breaker bar and a torque wrech. Mine wasn't super tight. Good luck.
Not saying that is your problem but if it's the start system it will let you know soon enough.
 
#7 ·
I still don’t get your first two posts. the bike was turning over but wouldn’t start.
You say you kept trying until it refused to start. Do you mean you kept trying until it wouldn’t even turn over
then you say you heard noises when pulling away, so you must have got it started??
a faulty sprag won’t turn the engine. The starter will spin but won’t engage.
you won’t be able to test the sprag by turning by hand when it’soff the bike. It will feel ok with low forces.
what you describe doesn’t sound like an issue with the sprag. Just that you kept trying to start it until you ran the battery flat.
 
#10 ·
Finally got my clutch tool and opened the cases today. The gears & bearings are in excellent condition. I tested the starter motor and it works/no problem. Current problem is that I do not have a T50 or 55 socket to remove the sprag from the case. (My largest is T45) Just ordered both sizes and will resume as soon as they arrive. I have new gaskets & sprag unit ready (plus Haynes manual) for installation.
 
#13 ·
In my experience of 2 failed start systems the idler gears broke, the origional sprag did the upgrade didn't. I got the final upgrade. Spares Kit T1229876. Must call a dealer to get it. Bigger everything, starter gears to sprag, and covers. Here is photo of comparison. Get this kit fou yours.
Image
 
#15 ·