How are you finding 38 degrees BTDC to static time the Boyer? 10 Volts is pretty low for the battery.

Rod

 

Pop the stator cover open, line up the marks on the alternator, and then on the timing side, line up the dot on the Boyer rotor with the clockwise timing hole in the plate.

Yes, I know 10v is low but I think that's the threshold that the Boyer doesn't automatically retard itself at. I was trying to communicate that the battery was good. Measured it when I got home from work and it read 13.15 volts which is normal.

Try Champion N3C plugs.

1. Check your valve adjustment

2. 10V is WAY too low for Boyer (the worst for low voltage of all ignition systems made)

3. DEFINITELY Champion N3C plugs as already stated

4. You should have either resistor plugs, or resistor plug caps, NOT both.

5. Stop using starting fluid

6. May need to strip the carbs and soak the bodies and low speed jets in a gallon can of warm Berryman's Chem Dip for 30 minutes, then re-assemble.

Hope you get on okay...

Yes, I loosened off on the valves to make it easier to set the cam timing and then reset the clearances afterwards.

So this is the first I've heard about the resistor plugs/plug caps. Are you saying that I have both on there currently? The caps I believe are the NGK resistor type, that were on there when I got it, but I have no idea what a resistor plug is. This is new to me... but I have some trouble believing that swapping the spark plug type could fix this problem. The local vintage guy uses the B8ES or B9ES in everything, and they run fine?

I'll definitely try a pair tomorrow though.

 

Try Champion N3C plugs.

 

1. Check your valve adjustment

2. 10V is WAY too low for Boyer (the worst for low voltage of all ignition systems made)

3. DEFINITELY Champion N3C plugs as already stated

4. You should have either resistor plugs, or resistor plug caps, NOT both.

5. Stop using starting fluid

6. May need to strip the carbs and soak the bodies and low speed jets in a gallon can of warm Berryman's Chem Dip for 30 minutes, then re-assemble.

Hope you get on okay...

 

It's never going to start with a Boyer & that battery voltage.

Get a new battery THEN check your running alternator output, then do a plug chop & go from there with mixtures.

 

Since 66 did not originally have the primary side inspection plate and pointer it's best to check. When you say you re aligned the cam wheels were they not set as standard when you started?

What have you set your valve clearances to?

Do you have a consistent spark at the plugs?

Can your battery keep the headlamp on and bright for at least one minute?

Rod

 

It occurred to me that "re-setting the cam timing" could have involved rotating the cams independently to re-align the marks with the head still in place, certainly NOT advisable!

However, you mentioned you loosened the valves first, so likely there was no collision (I hope). It doesn't take much to cause enough damage to never be right again until nicked valve(s) are replaced.

I'm not saying you have resistor plugs and/or caps, but with an electronic ignition you SHOULD have one or the other.

 

It hasn't run at all, since you "fixed" the valve timing. Coincidence?

Like most Triumph riders, I have no advice at all to give you about Mikuni settings or use. Modifications like fitting alien carburettors are best tackled by experts.

Are the spark plugs clean? Have you tried wiring + and - on the Boyer directly to a fully charged battery, bypassing the bike's wiring loom?

It's also quite common to have resistance or loss of connection somewhere in the leads from Boyer box to the trigger plate.

 

assuming you have standard cams fitted - have you checked that the cam wheels are using the correct keyways

 

Good call. I assumed 650 only pulled the intermediate pinion. If the cam pinions were removed from the cams and went back on in any position other than original keyways, the fun has only just begun.

Get out your degree wheel and dial indicator! (and pour a nice deep cup of coffee...)

 

Battery is worse than dead, deader than a dead thing.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30

 

Not necessarily G/Paul. If the pinions are not fitted as per stock they simply need to be returned to their proper positions (preferably with the pistons half way down the bore), the timing set and the engine turned carefully to check for clearance before seeing if it will run. If not, then it's time for the degree wheel. Chances are that if the cam timing lined up then the pinions are in the right position on the cam but the OP would have needed to turn the engine over and over and wait for them to align. If he simply popped the intermediate wheel and re set the timing we will never know.

We need to hear back from 650 before bombarding him with more information that could cause confusion.

TT, agree completely about Alien carbs but hey, each to their own.

Rod

 

I would start with the basics, Pull a plug,attach plug wire and lay on the head and kick over to see if you have spark, Check compression to make sure you don't have valve hanging open.

 

As mentioned, start with the basics. First, put the ether away. Triumphs are not hard to start if everything is OK. You mentioned that you have a good battery. That doesn't mean that you have good electrical power to your electronic ignition. Measure the voltage at the input to your electronic ignition. If the voltage is correct, pull both plugs and connect plug wire to each plug. Turn off fuel petcocks and turn on ignition. Lay the plugs on the head and turn the engine over by hand, watching that each spark plug fires and you have a good spark. Do this repeatedly to make sure that the ignition isn't erratic. Check to make sure the ignition timing is correct. If these tests are successful, return to the valve timing and confirm absolutely that the valve timing is correct. I'm suspicious that you have accidentally changed the valve timing. Bottom line is that if you have reliable spark, valve timing is correct and you have fuel, it should start. Even if one carb is screwed up, it is unlikely that both are, but this is also possible. Again, forget the ether!

 

Sorry for the late reply, but I went back over everyone's suggestions for the millionth time. I have a degree wheel and used it to check that the rotor on on the alternator is in the correct position and hasn't loosened up or moved around, and that the mark was at 38 degrees BTDC. I also pulled the cam chest again and made sure the cam gears were on the correct keyway, and aligned correctly. I also put in a new battery/spark plugs since they're $20. Still no changes at all. Sometimes I can get the bike to start and idle terribly (backfire out exhaust) with starting fluid and the enrichener on, but it's never consistent and doesn't do anything unless I use starting fluid, and even then most of the time it just kicks back.

So overall have made exactly no progress and discovered nothing new. Still taking suggestions.

 

When you originally checked the cam timing was it out?
Are the plugs getting wet?
Are you static timing the Boyer in the correct hole?

Rod

Sorry you already answered the last question. Worth double checking.

 

What did you do about the Boyer power supply and trigger connections connectivity suggestion?

Try a pair of old Amal 930s off Ebay.

 

I'm getting a good spark, but the Boyer's don't fire under 300 (?) RPM, so it's impossible for me to check if it sparks consistently at the same place, but I can put a timing light on it sorta sometimes and it seems like it is in fact firing consistently, but if you have a better way to be positive everything's functioning correctly, I'll try that.

I have never had any luck with Mikunis even though they are simple to work on, and would definitely put Amals on there, but the threads on the intake spigot on the head of this bike were stripped and the flange for the Mikunis was actually welded/brazed onto the head, so I can't change them without getting a new head.

I didn't get the cam wheels aligned to check whether they were in the correct position to begin with, but since everything is the same my gut feeling says that they were, and yes, timing the Boyer in the correct hole.

 

I have a spare head if you end up going that way.

grandpaulz@hotmail.com

 

Thanks, but I really don't want to spend any more money on this thing. I've already payed more than twice what I paid for the bike having people look at it and it still has problems and I honestly doubt putting Amals on would help it to run any better at this point.

If you can see the timing light flashing consistently there is a good chance that side of the system is ok, you did say sort of though? How old are the spark plugs, are they heavily fuel fouled?

If originality is a concern then 66 models were fitted with twin 389/95 Monobloc carbs.

Rod

Well, it's pretty difficult to start the bike and keep my hand on the throttle so it won't die, and also bend down while the bike is on the sidestand and shine the timing light into the inspection cover all by myself. :smile2: But from what I can tell, yeah, the ignition seems to be functioning correctly.

Plugs are brand new B8ES. I've played around with the B9ES too and Champions and nothing makes a difference. They seem like a normal wetness to me? Not dripping wet or anything and not really dry/wet fouled. I've found that the gaps are always within the manual-specified tolerances says so I never bother checking the gaps.

 

If you can see the timing light flashing consistently there is a good chance that side of the system is ok, you did say sort of though? How old are the spark plugs, are they heavily fuel fouled?

If originality is a concern then 66 models were fitted with twin 389/95 Monobloc carbs.

Rod

 

Have you tried eliminating all the main loom wiring and switches - just temporary wire the boyer direct from the battery and just the minimum wires you need to coils / pickup etc - don't use any of the wiring you already have -- could be bad wires / connections / intermittent switch fault

 

Tried all these?

http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/BoyerTroubleShooting.htm

 

Aim the timing lamp at a dark object and watch the light to see if it misses.

It's not exactly a complicated system, literally suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Somewhere we are all missing something simple.

Rod

 

"650" Did this ever get resolved?