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Ha ha, yeah never won any prizes at maths. Feel and lever travel is great, seems little changed, just more effective. MC is 11mm. Bleeding took forever, probably due to poor technique. I think I was backing off the bleed screw too much and getting leakage via the threads. Once I realised this and only cracked the bleed screw very slightly things started to improve.
 
Discussion starter · #62 ·
Ha ha, yeah never won any prizes at maths. Feel and lever travel is great, seems little changed, just more effective. MC is 11mm. Bleeding took forever, probably due to poor technique. I think I was backing off the bleed screw too much and getting leakage via the threads. Once I realised this and only cracked the bleed screw very slightly things started to improve.
I wonder why the input and bleed are both on the uphill side?
 
Discussion starter · #63 · (Edited)
Here is a summary of what I have learned on how do to the Nissin 3 pot mod on the T-120:
Thanks to Ginnygrl for her input on the different displacement model calliper piston sizes
Trust it helps others

Muck about with brakes at your own risk..................


WATERCOOLED TRIUMPH T-120 BONNEVILLE FRONT BRAKE UPGRADE

The Nissin 3 piston calliper upgrade is a known mod for the new gen Triumph airhead models, but I could find no definitive information on using these callipers on the water cooled T-120. PN for the fork legs are different between air and water cooled models so no inference could be made.

While not a simple bolt on, the mod is a cost effective method to improve the 2016+ Triumph T-120 Bonneville brakes, by using Nissin 3 piston callipers from a Honda CB1000R/RA, resulting in a 29.39% increase in calliper piston area. The modification consists of new callipers with appropriate brackets, calliper machine work, hydraulic plug, and a radial master cylinder on a bespoke mount. Floating brake rotors are optional, and not required for the mod.

Two alternative Nissin 3 piston calliper upgrade methods are described, using modified Honda CB500/600 callipers for a 14.1% increase in piston area, or a simple bolt on using Honda CB1000 callipers with 12.24% increase in piston area. While not offering the same increase in clamping force, these alternatives are significantly cheaper as a new master cylinder, and little or no machine work is required.

732308

3 piston Nissin callipers with Triumph Street Triple 765RS floating rotors

PARTS LIST

Callipers:


1 Pair Nissin 3 piston callipers and brackets from a 2008-16 Honda CB1000R/RA - Honda 45200-MFN-D00 and 45100-MFN-D00 (black) . The CB1000R/RA piston sizes are asymmetrical at (2 x 27mm) + (1 x 22.5mm) for one side and the other at (2 x 25.5mm) + (1 x 22.5mm). When machined to defeat the Honda linked brake system, yields a 29.39% increase in piston area over stock. These came in ABS and non-ABS versions, and if ABS, the sensor appendage needs removal.

Cross referencing the bracket PN will give you a list of bikes with these callipers and brackets. Other late 2000’s Honda models also used 3 piston callipers, but may not have compatible brackets.

1 ea. M10 x 1.25 x 15mm stainless bolt with copper sealing washers to plug the now unused centre linked piston hydraulic input.

The stock brake lines fit. You will need new 10mm copper or aluminium banjo sealing washers. Do not re-use the old washers.

732309


Nissin 3 pot calliper before machine work. The centre piston bore needs to be increased to that of the other pistons, in order to intersect the hydraulic connection between the outside bores.



Calliper brackets:

If you are not lucky enough to find callipers with the correct brackets you will need:

1 ea. R bracket #45290-MER-R81. Here in Thailand this is off a locally manufactured, 2011-13 Honda CBR250, and cheap as chips. The ABS sensor appendage will need removal.

1 ea L bracket #45190-MFA-D11. Seems unique to the 2009 Honda DN-01 / NSA700A, and several EU/UK/Aust Honda models.

732310


45290-MER-R81 (top) and 45190-MFA-D11 (bottom) calliper brackets.

Pads:
2 ea. Pad sets.
I like EBC-HH pads, so # FA388HH for street use.
732311


732312

Bottom is EBC-HH stock size pad, centre is stock Honda 3 pot pad, top is EBC FA388HH



Rotors:


Not necessary for the mod, and stock rotors will work.

Several Triumph models including the water cooled Thruxton, and the Street Triple 765RS use significantly lighter, floating rotors, that are a direct bolt on fitment. While this does not increase the clamping force, it is recommended for better braking and handling. See EBC – MD883X (with an even lighter aluminium carrier), for a cross reference list



Master cylinder:


With an almost 29.39% increase in piston area with the machined CB1000R/RA callipers, the stock 14mm master cylinder will be too small. I did not consider a larger bore axial MC, as I wanted the radial MC advantage of a slightly higher ratio for less effort at the lever, and more importantly, a wider engagement band. This will allow finite modulation of the brake at locking point, before the ABS Nanny starts interfering.

MC bore, internal ratio, and distance from rider finger to MC internal fulcrum (inter-axis ratio) is critical. A Brembo RCS19 x 18 internal ratio MC, with the inter-axis ratio at 90mm, will be ideal for most riders. Changing pad CF and varying the inter-axis ratio, will allow fine tuning.



MACHINE WORK

Changing the brake master cylinder is a significant portion of the project cost, as the T-120 uses a switchgear/ RBW throttle clamp which is integral with master cylinder. This precludes the use of a stand-alone Brembo style radial MC. I was unable to find suitable modular switches, so had to make my own switchgear and RBW throttle clamp, in order to change the MC.

The L calliper uses the Honda linked brake system, connecting the centre piston to the rear brake pedal. Defeat this system by interconnecting the pistons by counter boring the centre bore to the same depth as the outboard pistons. The separate hydraulic input for the L calliper centre piston is then plugged.

732313


12mm counterbore in the centre piston bore.


732314

Plug in the now unused centre hydraulic input. One can only wonder why the input and bleed are not at opposite ends?



If ABS calipers are used, the R calliper bracket has an appendage for the ABS sensor, and best removed for a clean look.

732315


R bracket showing where the ABS sensor appendage was removed

732316


Note that 45290-MER-R81 has been machined to remove the ABS sensor bracket




ALTERNATIVE METHODS


Using the stock 14mm master cylinder significantly lowers the project cost. Smaller displacement Hondas, use smaller bore 3 piston Nissin callipers, which allows the use of the stock master cylinder. A simpler and cheaper mod is to use Honda CB500/600 Nissin 3 piston callipers with 3 x 22.5mm pistons in one side and the other at (2 x 25.5mm) + (1 x 22mm). When machined to defeat the Honda linked braking system, this yields a 14.1% increase in piston area. While not an optimal ratio, this mod could use the stock master cylinder.

Simplest of all, and with a better master cylinder ratio, is the 12.24% increase in piston area using the same CB1000R/RA callipers with stock master cylinder, but not doing any L calliper machine work to defeat the Honda linked braking system. A bespoke plug is not required for the unused centre piston.

The same calliper bracket requirements and modifications apply in both alternative methods, if you cannot find a bike with compatible, non-ABS brackets



Hoghead;
Chiangmai Thailand, June 2020
 
Ooh - theres a typo!

Thanks to Ginnygrl for his input
Should read "for her input" !
💅

Any chance of some detail on your brembo M/C adaptations? Withe my Thruxton off the road, I've been whizzing around on my Street triple R and it's Nissin/brembo combo (non ABS) is wonderful.
 
Discussion starter · #65 ·
Ooh - theres a typo!


Should read "for her input" !
💅

Any chance of some detail on your brembo M/C adaptations? Withe my Thruxton off the road, I've been whizzing around on my Street triple R and it's Nissin/brembo combo (non ABS) is wonderful.
Haha I was wondering about that with the grl in your name - Will fix it
Will post a pic on the MC mod when I get home
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
The T-120 uses an integral switchgear/master cylinder clamp, which precludes fitting a stand alone brake master cylinder.
I gave up trying to mill a switchgear clamp and had Global Dimensions (Bangkok) scan the Triumph part, isolate the clamp portion, and 3D print a new clamp using lazered nylon.
Brilliant technology, great Engineers, and much easier than trying to draw then set this up on a mill

They also did some work for me designing a bespoke front hub for my Bugaru project, fitting 996 brakes on a IFS:
740317
740318
740319
 
Awesome, I've been waiting for you to update this project 😁 so now you keep the standard switches and RBW throttle and the brembo radial MC fits next door. Did they do all that from the back of a van? Do you intend to market this part?
 
Technology is great-sometimes!! having recently traded my BMW G650GS on a new leftover 19 street scrambler i can add that its single 4 active piston Brembo setup is also better than the 18 T120 i own!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #71 · (Edited)
Awesome, I've been waiting for you to update this project 😁 so now you keep the standard switches and RBW throttle and the brembo radial MC fits next door. Did they do all that from the back of a van? Do you intend to market this part?
Yes - standard switches and RBW throttle stays all the same and looks factory. Brembo RCS 19mm bore MC mounts next door, however it would be nice to have room to move it about. As it is it is as mounted as close to the switchgear as possible.
I used the 19mm bore (1" bars) Brembo RCS 19 as I had it left over from another project, and months right now to get a different one here in Thailand

MC bore and ratio is key to making this all work together and there are two ratios involved - the internal lever ratio, ( dual 18/20), and the inter-axis ratio, or distance from internal MC pivot to ones finger(s).
As the MC is mounted as close as possible I will not be able to fine tune by varing the inter-axis ratio, however if deemed necessary I can always use a different MC. The lever looks a bit short, but will work fine as I am a one or two finger rider. Having my finger at the end of the lever increases the ratio

The scanning hardware is Canadian, and compromises of two main devices and as you can imagine a fair bit of computing power. I am not sure what modelling software they use, but I suspect something like Solid Works to then generate the file for the printer or CNC mill. Global Dimensions are now designing me a bespoke front hub for my Franken Beetle project, and far easier to do it right the first way, then my traditional Cardboard Aided Design method.

Global Dimensions did not charge me full rate as they are petrol heads too, but as you can imagine this technology and Engineering time is not cheap. Let me speak to Global Dimensions as the intent was a hobby part for me at a discounted rate, and not a profit venture. I am not looking to retire on a switchgear clamp, but could make a couple of there is interest. Cost would be determined by quantity so if anyone else wants in on it speak up now.

740386
740387
740388
 
Discussion starter · #72 · (Edited)
Just back from the initial test ride and it is a big improvement. The almost 30% increase in piston area is one thing, but the improvement in feel and ease in modulating the braking force with the radial master cylinder is brilliant.
Had the MC ratio on 18 for this test and is to my liking.

Huge bench racing points, and huge improvement in the front brake - money well spent
 
Discussion starter · #73 ·
I could make more switchgear clamps, and would need about 10 riders to commit in order to get the price in the 100 USD bracket. I am not sure that there is a market, in order for me to make a run and hold stock in the hope of selling them
Making another one of, would cost more

So if you want one let me know and I will work out a price once quantities are known
 
Its tempting but I am pretty happy with what I have now but you put so much work into it, it would be nice if you could get some return on your investment.
 
Discussion starter · #75 ·
I will be posting a pair of New, unused, with OEM pads, 3 pot callipers for sale in the classifieds.
14.1% larger, so will work with the stock T-120 MC

A direct bolt on mod:
Correct brackets and ABS boss is milled off.
The centre piston is enabled properly in a milling machine.
Stainless bolt provided for the unused centre input
300 USD + post
 
I could make more switchgear clamps, and would need about 10 riders to commit in order to get the price in the 100 USD bracket. I am not sure that there is a market, in order for me to make a run and hold stock in the hope of selling them
Making another one of, would cost more

So if you want one let me know and I will work out a price once quantities are known
Put me down as one. I'm perpetually tinkering, so if you get enough committed buyers down the road I'll buy one and do the big piston caliper/MC upgrade. :)
 
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