[cmdrew]

Yes sorry, my mistake, big ends not mains, not sure why I said that as I know the difference!

Think maybe my spare is from a tiger as it doesn’t have the pipe below the thermostat housing and doesn’t gave the reed valves in the cam cover but is 6 bolt and does have the gen2 casings

 

[RampantParanoia]

Think maybe my spare is from a tiger as it doesn’t have the pipe below the thermostat housing and doesn’t gave the reed valves in the cam cover but is 6 bolt and does have the gen2 casings

That would make sense, the 955 Tiger has a 2nd gen crankcase with a 1st gen head, proper oddball.

There's definitely value in the cases/head etc so worth breaking the Daytona engine if you're not gonna repair it. You could also sell it as-is for spares or repair, just please don't scrap it! Parts are getting harder to come by so would be a shame to weigh in decent parts

 

[blacki999]

I had a 2005 Daytona 955i for 12 years and 100000km. It had a black frame, unpainted cases/cylinders, black alternator/clutch covers. I just confirmed that, looking at Daytonas currently for sale. I swapped in a 2006 Daytona engine, same. I had a Speed Triple 955i too, with black cases/cylinders. The 2006 Daytona 955i engine had the (then new) Speed Triple 1050 cases with the forged Daytona crank, pistons, shot-peened rods and Nikasil coated alloy cylinder liners. The stroke is 6mm shorter than the 1050, so the deck is 3mm lower and the cylinder head is a different part number casting to the 1050 one (but similar to the 2001-2005 Daytona heads) to match the lower deck with the same cylinder head engine mount position. Valves and cams are the same as in earlier Daytonas from 2001. The Daytona has double springs on the intake valves and higher valve lift. I think you could put Speed Triple cams in there for more torque, but Daytona cams in a Speed Triple engine would be rev-limited, so no point, as RampantParanoia pointed out. You'd lose the crazy 10-12000 rpm power band and have less torque everywhere else.
Perhaps you could even move a Daytona head to a Speed Triple 955i engine, and get the Daytona performance, but you might break a rod going much beyond the 955i rev limit. Anyway, if you are removing the 955i engine from the frame and removing the head, I think you can just reinstall the 955i head with double intake valve springs and Daytona camshafts, without needing a Daytona head. When I bought the 2006 Daytona wreck to transplant its engine into my 2005 bike, I was aware of some of this, and couldn't be sure the engine would bolt up with my frame, but had to take the gamble.

Also, the Daytona con-rod little ends are 17mm instead of 19mm in the Speed Triple 955i, and the big ends 35mm instead of 41mm. It was actually possible in theory to grind either a 65mm (955) or 71.4mm stroke (1050) crankshaft from the same casting (but Daytona is forged). The con-rods from the 2001 Daytona engine redesign went into the 2005 Speed Triple 1050, and were still the same part number in my 2020 Speed Triple 1050RS!
The Daytona 955i engine had a vent hose attached to a seal at the left end of the balance shaft in front of the crankshaft. I think the idea was to have the balance shaft centrifuge any oil out of the vented gas. The 2006 Daytona, like the Speed triple 1050, had the vent hose at the top of the gearbox instead, with a labyrinth cast into the top case. The 2006 Daytona also had the 2006 Speed Triple 1050's clutch cover, without the visible 3 screws, so it's easy to tell apart a 2006 Daytona 955i from a 2005 (also with the black frame).
I think the reed valves are for secondary air injection, which is not included in all countries. None of my 6 Triumph triples (so far) here in Australia has had it.

IanB

 

[LeT]

I had a 2005 Daytona 955i for 12 years and 100000km. It had a black frame, unpainted cases/cylinders, black alternator/clutch covers. I just confirmed that, looking at Daytonas currently for sale. I swapped in a 2006 Daytona engine, same.

Wow. Thanks for posting. There's a lot of good, useful information here. Just wondering, why did you have to swap out your 2005 engine? Did I miss something? (100,000km is about 66,000miles for those unused to metric).
Cheers
LeT

 

[blacki999]

You can buy the Speed Triple/Daytona 955i manual on a CD or as a PDF download on Ebay. Mine has both, 2003 edition, bought in 2009. I assume the Ebay ones are the same. You can’t get very far without it. It’s interesting to compare the specs of the Speed Triple with the Daytona, as they are presented on the same page.
When you turn on the ignition, you immediately hear the idle control valve stepping to fully closed and back to the normal position, and also the fuel pump priming the fuel injection system. It’s easy to hear the high pitched sound. This last a few seconds, then the pump stops until the engine is running. You can crank the engine while the pump is priming. Obviously, if the pump is not running, you won’t hear it. If it’s not running, it’s either seized up after a long period in storage or it is not getting 12 volts. If it’s seized, there may be a blown fuse 5. It’s hard to tell which fuse from the main wiring diagram, as connector 50 either has the alarm feature connected, or a jumper plug. The wiring diagram does not show the jumper configuration. If the pump is seized I guess the injectors may be gummed up too. On diagram 16.25, the fuel pump is powered, with the ECM and instruments, from pins 1 and 3 on connector 50 (alarm). There is no fuel pump relay. I’d expect jumpers in connector 50 to bridge pins 1 to 2 and 3 to 5 when no alarm is installed. All this, and the starter solenoid, and the main power relay are supplied by fuse 5. The main power relay is controlled by the ECM. If fuse 5 blows, the engine won’t crank, everything is dead. On the main wiring diagram, the main power relay supplies through fuses 6,7, the coils, the injectors, the fan, the oxygen sensor, and the ECU itself with +12V. There is no separate fan relay. All these have power while the main power relay relay is transferred, even if the ignition is switched off. This means that when the ignition is switched off, the ECU can hold up the main power relay and keep itself alive as long as it chooses. That’s how the fan, for some reason known only to Triumph, continues to run after the ignition is switched off, if it was running before. The ECU waits until the coolant temperature sensor drops to 101C, then drops the relay, stopping the fan and killing itself. But, the fan is cooling the radiator, the sensor is in the cylinder head, and there is no coolant circulation. Go figure.

 

[blacki999]

Very sad story. March 2015, I went to start the bike, a 2005 Daytona 955i. No throttle, just pull in the clutch, as usual. It started to idle briefly for a second, but didn't settle down, just stopped. Completely normal on the first try. Sometimes it bounces off compression and you can hear the starter being spun backwards by the sprague clutch. I wait a second for that to stop, then crank it again and it settles into a normal idle. This time it cranked very quickly, but didn't fire up, didn't fire at all. I determined that there was no compression in any cylinder. I could turn the rear wheel in 6th gear on a paddock stand and feel the simultaneous resistance of the intake cams on one cylinder, and exhaust cams on another cylinder 240 degrees behind, both opening valves. Three times each 2 engine revs. The 3rd cylinder 480 degrees behind should be on compression at the same time each 240 degrees and prevent you feeling the cam resistance on the other 2 cylinders, but no compression. I ended up deciding the rings were not sealing, but completely mystified. I dismantled the engine, all was pristine inside, at 54000km. Very expensive to reassemble the engine, gasket kit etc, and why would it not still have no compression after reassembly? I bought the only Daytona 955i engine available at the time in Australia, in a wrecked 2006 bike, and did the transplant. I rode 60000km with that engine, terrific. I never found another similar case to this.
The thing is, exactly the same thing happened on another Daytona I bought later in 2015, a 2004 red one.
About 2 years later, it suddenly lost all compression, at 18000km, in my garage. This time I decided to keep it on a battery tender and crank it for a few minutes every time I was in the garage. On the 5th day it fired, but didn't start. The next day it settled into a normal idle. Plenty of compression now. I rode it another 5000km before eventually selling it. Recently, a new thread on this forum detailed something very similar. I'm not alone after all!
I'll find you a link to the story.
IanB

 

[cmdrew]

Thanks for the info - project is a little stalled as I have other things on. Mine is a 2006 registered bike. Heads are good but bottom end is trashed. It's possible I may just sell this on very cheap as I really don't have the time or energy for an engine rebuild and there seem to be so many different engine codes for these bikes getting a replacement seems a bit of a mine field!

 

[blacki999]

Yes, it was a minefield for me.
Original 2015 thread for compression loss:
https://www.triumphrat.net/posts/6028898/
2024 thread:

https://www.triumphrat.net/posts/2004484012/

 

[needanotherpart]

It’s interesting to compare the specs of the Speed Triple with the Daytona, as they are presented on the same page.

There are multiple Daytona engines depending who made them and for which market, the 2003 service manual only covers the last versions (late 98,99-2002) and may not fully cover the German and French engine versions and not the Marelli built ones. Most things are fairly similar after they switched facilities. The engine+vin codes identify most of them, the Euro engines alone have limited codes to identify them.

Edit: Partial Excerpt: https://www.triumphrat.net/posts/2004456711/
1997
T509 - 98 PS
T595 - 98 PS
1998
T509 - 108 PS
T595 - 130 PS
2002 (Daytona 955i)
955i - 149 PS

This would possibly indicate my Engine Pattern above is not fully correct unless there is a 3rd engine configuration.
The other possibility (since date codes are year only), is that the engine I have was a late 1997 build and was made to the 1998 specs.

I also mis-wrote above, the French engine is 108 PS, not 130.

There is more, but there is a big difference in trying to decode Euro engines vs North American ones. The German and French have special designations or have listed VINs that would indicate a production variance - maybe competition/race production models or development/testing, have not found specifics in the USA filed documents.

 

[blacki999]

This is good for 2004-6 too.

 

[LeT]

Yes, it was a minefield for me.
Original 2015 thread for compression loss:
https://www.triumphrat.net/posts/6028898/
2024 thread:

https://www.triumphrat.net/posts/2004484012/

Thanks for sharing. Sudden loss of compression on all cylinders must have a mechanical explanation. So must recovery of compression. Dodgy compression guage? But that wouldn't explain refusal to start. I suppose this is now an old story on a bike that fixed itself but still ... intriguing. These days, failing fuel pumps resulting in poor fuel rail pressure are more likely causes of no start symptoms. But in the linked recent story, poor control/dirty/failing fuel injectors washing cylinder walls could have been the thing, it seems. A leak down test would have told if the compression was being lost past the rings, inlet or exhaust valves. Or spark plugs. It must have been going somewhere. We'll never know but it's great to have some theories at the ready, in case similar problems crop up in the years to come. My Tornado Red 2003 is due to be revived from her winter slumber soon. Amazing to me to think she's now 22 years old. Let's hope she's not lost the will to run. Wishing you well and many more enjoyable miles/kilometers to come.

 

[LeT]

Thanks for the info - project is a little stalled as I have other things on. Mine is a 2006 registered bike. Heads are good but bottom end is trashed. It's possible I may just sell this on very cheap as I really don't have the time or energy for an engine rebuild and there seem to be so many different engine codes for these bikes getting a replacement seems a bit of a mine field!

Contact National-Triumph on eBay before giving up. They are a gold mine - been doing Hinckley bikes for decades now - and will set you straight on what's what for UK bikes. They are in Wolverhampton. Good luck.

 

[needanotherpart]

Thanks for sharing. Sudden loss of compression on all cylinders must have a mechanical explanation. So must recovery of compression. Dodgy compression guage?

A standard plug socket does not fit, if using the plug holes to test compression, a special tapered or ground socket must be used. None of my own compression gauges (although I do not have the "empty plug" adapter) will fit and work properly using the plug hole to take a reading.

Hence, mentioning taking the reading single sided on the intake and/or exhaust (if doing both you can always smoke or low pressure test the top end at the same time - if the rings are leaking, opening your oil filler will give/show the smoke or pressure passing them into the bottom end). If its a cap gasket failure, that should also show up.