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1970 Bonneville electronic ignition

7.9K views 28 replies 13 participants last post by  Steve69  
#1 ·
What do I have to do to change my stock T120RT to electronic ignition?
What is the best and most reliable kit available?
Thanks in advance,
Lou
 
#2 ·
Most need 12v which your bike should have
Normally they work best with 2x6v coils in place of the original 12v but quite a lot of people are happy with keeping the original coils

Personally I use pazon. It has a 7 year warranty and is protected from being wired backwards

You will need to be able to strobe the engine
 
#4 ·
I think we can all be a little unfair about Boyer systems. I had an Analogue MK3 in my TR6 that had been in there since the early 80's working with two 12 volt car coils. I changed it only because the wires had turned black and the insulation was breaking up.

Pazon seem to be working out quite well for people by all accounts. I have one in my TR6 now and can't fault it.

Google Tri Spark failures and be prepared for hours of reading. However failure reports do seem to have dropped off considerably so hopefully Steve now has the issues he denies ever existed sorted. I have one in my Bonnie and really like it, however it is the forth or fifth unit after multiple failures.

Thats pretty much the main stream units. There are cheap copies of the old style Boyer about and some other weird and wonderful stuff you could look into.

Main points to consider are that you need a good charging system, decent wiring and a good battery. Not making crimp connections using an old pair of pliers is also good advise.

Rod
 
#5 ·
Thanks,
Which of these units is easier to install on a stock wiring and ignition system? Cost is not as much of an issue as is simplicity in the installation.
This bike runs great on the factory stuff so far. The mechanic that checked my engine out after being stored for forty years said that he suggested an electronic ignition as the only update.
Lou
 
#6 ·
I'll sum it up in one word... Pazon.
Simple installation.
Reliable.
Long Warranty.
Perfect in operation.
Will fire the engine on only 6 volts.
Designed by a bloke who worked for Boyer, started his own company and improved things out of sight.

I went thru 3 failed try to sparks before I fitted the Pazon and have never looked back.
The major electronics just don't belong in the hot timing case cavity where the ambient temperature exceeds the component design parameters.
 
#7 ·
I have a 20 year old mkIII boyer in my 72 that has somehow survived neglect, abuse and terrible wiring (by me). That said, when I'm ready for an upgrade I will either go for a boyer mkiv or the Pazon Sure Fire. I am leaning towards the Pazon. Price and installation are about the same for both brands. Here's a vid by Todd at Lowbrow showing you how to install:
Also, make sure you upgrade to modern tires and maybe a better headlight illumination.

http://youtu.be/HdP__nnG1XA
 
#9 ·
I'm running a Pazon Sure-Fire. Really simple to install, you just pull the points plate and points cam, replace them with the new parts. They drop right in. I did replace my coils with 6v units. The Pazon is a waste-spark unit; it sparks both sides at once, even on the exhaust cycle. Hence 2 6v coils in series. I really appreciate a couple features on it. First, even if you leave the ignition switched on, it doesn't power the coils unless the engine is turning, so the battery doesn't run down. But second is the anti-kick feature: the motor has to spin at some minimum rpm to spark, so it won't kick back if everything is just ready to spark at the top of the stroke. Actually, I guess those are actually both the same thing.

Starts first kick every time.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Hi Lou,

What is the best and most reliable kit available?
Since Bransden (the actual maker of what's colloquially known as "Boyer") brought out the Mk.IV analogue, judging by the the number of "My [insert name of e.i.] doesn't work" threads on Britbike internet forums, certainly all the analogues seem to be much of a muchness. One thing you might want to bear in mind is that you're in the US, all of the e.i. are made in faraway places but Bransden does at least have approved backup in the US - this Forum's very own @johntioc. :thumb

Only Tri-Spark don't do analogue electronics, digital only.

The considerably-more unreliable parts of any modern e.i. are:-

. the rest of the bike's electrics - nearly fifty years old on a T120RT? - the general piss-poor quality of more-modern replacement parts;

. the fitter.

What do I have to do to change my stock T120RT to electronic ignition?
Select one, tell us which one you've bought, basically follow the instructions, with the minor tweaks suggested. :)

Which of these units is easier to install on a stock wiring and ignition system?
All the same ime.

All 'makers' - Boyer-Bransden, Tri-Spark, Pazon, Wassell - have their fitting instructions online; read 'em and see which one you fancy?

This bike runs great on the factory stuff
'Course, then there's also the If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It option? :)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#12 ·
When i replaced my points for a Boyer in 1998, it was largely due to worn out advance weights. Yes, it is very reliable having one failure in 20 years.Dead easy to fit and will work on 12 volt coils. My instructions said nothing about changing to 6 volt coils but i believe new ones might suggest changing them.
Once fitted and the timing set with a strobe, it just runs until you have to dismantle the timing gear chest for any reason , without any further adjustment.
I expect Pazon might be better but watch and see how much it costs if you have to import one.
The fault on mine was the black box which cost ÂŁ60 and just connects to the old parts in the points cover. It just died with no symptoms one day.
Good thing is, someone will buy your old points plate and weights on ebay and you might get ÂŁ25 for it.
 
#15 ·
TT, why do you suggest avoiding the Micro Power? I've only done about 4000 miles on mine over a few years but it has given no trouble. I primarily chose it due to the compact little coil. (Very similar to the dual output coil used by the modern Bonnies)
Is there a known weak point?
 
#16 ·
I had bad starting and random stopping along with incredible backfires and I’m not the only person to have trouble with it.

If your Boyer with blue box is working well, that’s good. In your place I’d probably keep on using it.
 
#18 ·
I fitted a PowerArc C5 digital system to my T120R. It's optically triggered not magnetically so there's no variation as the temperature rises. All the electronics are on the trigger card so there is no 'black box' to find a place for. A number of people will tell you that will cause problems but it hasn't caused me any. The kit comes complete with a twin spark coil (which you do have to find a home for) and the 'special' HT lead and plug caps, which weren't quite long enough when I found a home for the coil under the seat.
On my older system, there are two pre-programmed advance curves... the 'normal' one giving 38° of advance and a 'retarded' curve giving 32° of advance. They are switchable 'on the fly' if you fit a suitable switch on the handlebars. I've never used the retarded curve but it's there if I ever felt the need to use it. The system fires the coil three times in quick succession (38°, 24° and 11° at full advance) which the makers claim ensures a complete burn and is beneficial(?). I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue the point. I believe the newer systems have 4 switchable pre-programmed advance curves and if you buy the optional programming interface, you can programme your own, happen you have the need (and knowledge) to do so.
Not the cheapest system in the world but it looks good when you take the points cover off. :D
 

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#19 ·
Didn't see this when I started another EI thread. The TriSpark has some features not offered in the others, but was wondering if these options were worth double the price? After reading mostly negatives about it I think maybe it's not the one to go with. Is there any real differences between the others, or is personally subjective?
 
#20 ·
Pazon is designed by a guy who worked for Boyer
They have a superior guarantee and allegedly a better design(?)
It is also protected against being wired backwards
Possibly also runs ok with a flat battery ( low battery)
 
#21 ·
Boyer being a very good low cost option is an obvious choice.Like all the others,it runs the bike year after year with no maintenance.Why would you want to pay more for a product that does exactly the same thing as a cheaper one ?.These are mostly leisure riding road bikes and not World record attempt vehicles. My Boyers lasting 13 years and the second one 7 years so far, are very reliable.The bike starts,it runs well,it gets me where i want and back again.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Rambo,
You pay a bit more because the Pazon is made, sold and designed by the team who were the management and technical team that successfully ran Boyer Bransden until 2004, when they decided to go out and improve on that brand.
Also the Altair model I fitted is digital like the Trispark with all the starting advantages that brings but with the electronics out in fresh air.
I didn't consider cost when selecting an ignition system for the Daytona, it's not a commuter and ideally the purchase is a once only cost (unlike the very costly and inconvenient experience I had with that other brand I initially fitted)
A few dollars extra is nothing over the projected working life of the unit and the Pazon has a 7 year guarantee and free shipping which is a cost offset.
 
#23 ·
Davy, I'm curious about something. As you know we had similar experiences with TriSpark and I also switched to the Altair unit. I agree with you completely about the Altair and appreciate your recommendation. However, I still have a TriSpark in my other bike, comparing them side by side the TriSpark bike takes a good deal less effort to start, one lazy half arse kick and she is away. With the Pazon I have to set the kick start and give it a good swing, if I'm lazy on the kick start she will kick back. Both bikes are timed at 38 degrees and have 9-1 pistons. Have you noticed the same thing?

Rod
 
#24 · (Edited)
Mog

My all it takes to start the Daytona with the Pazon is a careless glance at the kickstart >:)

Are you static timing or strobe timing?
I found the Tryto spark static timing was spot on when checked with a strobe but with the Pazon there was a difference.
Once strobe timed it runs and starts perfect.
Being the inquisitive person I am, I also checked the timing on each vane and did find a slight difference as one vane was a few thou longer than the other so I shaved the more advanced vane down a few thou till it gave perfectly equal timings.
Don't know if it was a manufacturing tolerance issue or just a single part cockup.. I never asked, just fixed the problem and moved on.

If yours is kicking back then either the mixture is too weak or the spark is too far advanced.

I have a spare Tryto spark module lying around here somewhere... it smells a bit but still functions, but send me a postal address and I'll post it to you as an emergency get you home spare.
 
#25 ·
Both bikes set with a strobe. The TR6 (Pazon) recently overheated and blew the head gasket during an 80mph run on a 32 degree day, also spun a little end and buggered a con rod. When it goes back together I will recheck all my timing marks and tuning and reassess.

Appreciate the offer of a spare, i'll drop you a PM.

Rod
 
#27 ·
Brian at The Bonneville Shop sells all 3 unit. When asked about the differences between the Pazon and the Boyer I was told that they are the same price. The Pazon on the other hand, while having a better written warrantee, when it comes time to honor it they are sometimes less than forthcoming to do the right thing.
While some individuals here may have had carefree experiences with the Pazon, when a dealer for them, who has probably dealt with the issues multiple times, has bad things to say about their customer service it was an easy decision to make.
 
#28 ·
That's the first I've heard of that one.... on the other hand getting warranty on another make previously discussed cost me a fortune and in the end the product was so bad I gave up and bought the Pazon.
I've spoken direct with Andy a couple of times and he's a very straighforward bloke, no smoke and mirrors.