If you're riding along at 7000 rpm and close the throttle.

 

Thanks for your reply but your answer doesn't feel right.

The ignition table for neutral is very similar to the others.

In neutral you cannot have a closed throttle at 7000rpm.

Chris

 

I don't see how you can have zero throttle and achieve 7000rpm.(...)In neutral you cannot have a closed throttle at 7000rpm.

A running engine can NEVER have a closed throttle, regardless of RPM or gear. It would stall the engine.
That's why map's always show values for throttle position, even at throttle 0% (which actually is grip throttle).

 

That's why map's always show values for throttle position, even at throttle 0% (which actually is grip throttle).

I'm sorry. That doesn't make sense to me.

Let me ask my question a different way.

The neutral ignition table shows a value of 41 with 0% throttle at 7000rpm.

What is this telling me? What does it mean?

TB

 

Here's a screen capture of that maps neutral ignition table in case someone can interpret why there are appears to be lots of redundant cells.

This is the same on all maps, in fact some tuners even include their signature on them by using the redundant cells to form a Company anagram...

 

Thank you Forchetto.

The image is really useful and is exactly the map that I am using.

I'd like to know why there are values when you would not expect any.

For example 41 @ 0% throttle and 7000rpm.

Just to add to the puzzle there is a rpm limit of 6500.

What do the numbers represent?

TB

 

Just to add to the puzzle there is a rpm limit of 6500.

What do the numbers represent?

TB

You can increase or decrease the rpm limit, but only to 7000 rpm. Place the cursor over the rpm figure in "rev limit", right click and "edit" appears. You can then use the little up and down arrows to modify that.

I notice that it's also speed limited to 185 kmh. I assume it's kmh as that figure can be changed up to 299...

The numbers in the tables represent degrees BTDC (before top dead centre).

 

I feel you are correct, the numbers represent degrees BTDC and the negative values are degrees ATDC.

But why would there be any need to create a range of values all at different rpm when the throttle is set at 0%

RPM must rise or fall relative to throttle position.

In the real world with the bike in neutral you cannot have an engine speed of say 3000rpm without the throttle being open more than 0% and yet the table suggests it is possible.

TB

 

every time you turn the throttle and let it return back to fully closed it goes to the zero throttle position , so if you revved your bike in neutral to 4000rpm and let go of the throttle so it goes to closed position the map would go to

4000rpm 0tps
35000rpm 0tps
3000rpm 0tps
etc
as the engine revs move back down to idle

41 deg @ 7000rpm is for when you hit the rev limit and back of throttle to closed position this is done a lot on dyno's , not so much in road riding

 

Morrie

Thanks for that. How would that work for the other values in the table for example with a 10% throttle position?

I would expect with a 10% throttle you would never have rpm below say 1000 but there are values right down to 0rpm.

You can see I'm still struggling with this

TB

 

Perhaps you are looking a little too deeply at this. For sure there may be many entries on that table which either can not be used practically (how long would you hold the engine at WOT in neutral!) and many more which don't have a practical purpose (does the timing really matter when you close the throttle and the engine is, very quickly, slowing down) but the table is already configured as a 32*20 matrix (or whatever it is) and I suspect it's easier to simply leave it at this and ignore the irrelevent entries (or use them to make a pretty picture as I think Forchetto said) than to make a specific (non-rectangular) table. What else would one do? Populating the boxes with zero would be no more correct as zero is a specific angle (TDC).

Why is there a specific table for neutral anyhow? I guess it's an emissions thing?

 

Perhaps you are correct.

I may have got caught up in the holy grail of releasing power on the cheap, if only I understood the ingredients.

God knows why I would ever need more power, I've yet to hit the rev limiter in any gear.

I'll get back in my box for a while

TB

 

Thought someone who new about this might have shed some light??
Plenty of tuners use this forum......too hard?.....I think so far there not close to what the figures mean.....except for advance and retard...probably I'm the retard..hehehe...

 

IT's not hard to figure out.

For one, is the piston speed greater at 7000 rpms or 1000 rpms?

Zero is just a starting reference number as far as computer is concerned; a set point.

So, you come off of it at 7000 and slam the throttle shut as you see officer friendly, TPS may wonder down to 1%, but you still have to have a BTDC number greater at 7000 rpms than you would at 1000 rpms.

WITHOUT a dyno, I would strongly advise against changing ANY ignition tables.