Hi,

New seals have extra rubber lip on them similar to part no 97-4001.

Never had any success with 97-4001, always leaked shortly after 3,000 miles, I got to the point that I'd replace 'em at the 3,000-mile service.

old seals which are flat rubber with thick steel washer on top and no retaining clip.

These are 'Super Seals', which superseded 97-4001 from '78; I fitted these to my T160's in 1982 and 1983 and ime they're the dog's dangly bits, never leaked, even with worn stanchions on the T160 I bought second-hand.

"thick steel washer on top and no retaining clip" is the early Super Seal retention system; iirc, Meriden went to sliders grooved for a circlip and looser, thinner steel washer from '80.

If the Super Seals on your bike didn't leak, you should've left 'em alone. If they did leak, you should've just got new Super Seals; if you have the soft ones, old ones can be removed and new ones fitted through the hole in the thick steel washer.

I've read good reports of the Ariete version (L.P. Williams sells 'em) of the lipped seal but never tried 'em, because the Super Seals work so well.

does the flat washer go on top of the new seals or is it left off.

As in the parts books, (thick steel) "flat washer" only used in '78 and '79.

Hth.

Regards,

 

May have mislead you with thick steel washer because there is no way fork seal will go thru middle of washer as they are virtually the same size. So if I use the new seal does it just press in with no steel washer. Thanks again for your reply

 

Hi,

there is no way fork seal will go thru middle of washer as they are virtually the same size.

Ime, whether or not the washer has to be removed to change a Super Seal, Super Seals are far-and-away better than standard 97-4001.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Hi Pork hunt (super funny name :grin2::grin2::grin2

Can you post some photos of what came out and what you have now.

If you have replaced the stupid looking fork seals that wobble about in the holder, with the proper traditional looking ones that fit nice and tight in the fork slider, then I am afraid that you might have done yourself a huge disservice.
Stuart is 100% correct, the late Triumph ‘leak stop’ seals are Fantastic they are marketed as ‘leak stop and they stop leaks.

I have used original, pro molly and Ariete brands (beware there are nasty copies out there) with great success.
I even run one modified set of forks presurised with up to 10psi, without pressure loss.

If you have not yet removed the steel washer please avoid doing so, it is a complete ba#%*%d to press back in.
The original seal is squashy and should come out through the hole, a new (flat) seal will squeeze down through the hole, 97-4001 that you have has a bonded steel sleeve that won’t squash down.

Please follow Stuart’s advice, unless you like changing seals every 3,000 miles (optimistic) and also brake pads as the forks seem to have been designed to route any leaking fork oil through the caliper.

If you have Fork gaiters, use Norton Commando ones, these are much better than any ‘Triumph’ marketed ones, that I have found.
If you have dust covers instead of gaiters, then again the Norton ones are better, although tight to get on, better still are late 70’s 850cc Moto Guzzi dust covers.
Best regards and good luck
Peg.

 

Hi Peg,

Thanks.

steel washer
it is a complete ba#%*%d to press back in.

Hmmm ... might be different machining tolerances between washers' OD and sliders' ID but, when I fitted 'em, both washers went into the reused T160 drive-side sliders (I fitted twin discs at the same time) with the usual washer-in-the-freezer-slider-warmed-with-gas-torch technique?

Fork gaiters, use Norton Commando ones,

:nod aiui, specifically ones from Andover Norton. I fitted gaiters with the new seals and twin discs, couldn't say where from now but they've never been any trouble.

Hth.

Regards,

 

So I farked up!
Have already removed the washer. Bike has been laid up for 25yrs had virtually no oil in forks. Should I put original seals back in or find replacement "Super Seals". If I choose to put in seals ( 97-4001 ) that I got as a replacement do I still use the washer.

 

Hi,

If I choose to put in seals ( 97-4001 ) that I got as a replacement do I still use the washer.

As in the parts books, (thick steel) "flat washer" only used in '78 and '79.

Hth.

Regards,

 

What is the part number for the super seal ? The ones I used looked like the super seals but had the 4001 part number.

 

Hi,

What is the part number for the super seal ?

97-7079.

Hth.

Regards,

 

thanks for all your help.looks like it stays in pieces until I get some super seals

 

These are the seals you need. They are marketed under the brand name Leak Proof. You must leave about some clearance between the retaining ring and the seal so that they can float a little.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-A65-Tr...=item35e5af71d4:g:zXQAAOSwa~hZYm~N:sc:USPSFirstClass!27028!US!-1&frcectupt=true

 

Hi,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-A65-Tr...=item35e5af71d4:g:zXQAAOSwa~hZYm~N:sc:USPSFirstClass!27028!US!-1&frcectupt=true

Hmmm ... I'm dubious about the "replaces 97-7079" ...

There are two types of "Leak Proof" - soft and hard; the ones I've used that definitely don't leak are the "soft" ones.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Hi Pork Hunt, These are the exact seals I use 100% of time. LeakProof Classic. USA Ebay easy to come by & some shops sell them. Shop for best price. I've had most outstanding good results with them. This kit replaces the single lip garter seal 97-4001.

If you have the later fork that came from factory with "leak proof or super seals" the thick retainer ring is discarded as the later forks retain seal with a thin flat washer & snap ring. The thin washer used with snap ring is not a press fit.

Most important to have plenty of clearance up/down for seal to move in. No sealant on outside of seal.

Open side of seal faces down. There are 2 small scraper lips on both inside & outside of seal.

Snap ring forks just drop seal in. Lubed inside & outside with fork oil. Drop in thin flat washer. Install snap ring.

On earlier fork with pressed in retainer ring which looks like a thick flat washer, I drive in with seal driver. It can fit fairly tight. I've always installed cold, but heating alloy might allow easier fit of retainer.

LeakProof instructions say to remove retainer when replacing seals later. Not wad them & push them in. I know a few that have wadded them & not removed retainer. Didn't seem to make them leak. I've never replaced them later as none leaked. I've only been using them for a few years now, but on several machines none have leaked.

Non snap ring retainer forks, I always install retainer ring flush with lower edge of chamfer. See photo.

Notice the gap between top of seal & lower edge of retainer ring. If gap is less than spec on instruction sheet it, seal will leak.

Minimum gap is .020". Max gap is approximately .125".

The seal is .285" thick. The retainer ring is aprox. .132" thick with a small chamfer on outside that faces down.

I find the gap ends up being aprox. .040" with ring pressed in as above.

I wrap some binder page protective sheet around fork leg to prevent micro or actual tearing seal lips. Cut sheet to wrap around leg with just a little overlap. The slider clearance is fairly large & allows the sheet to pull up & out fairly easily. See photo & you can see the plastic around leg.

I find this seal has much less stiction that the old garter seal.

I included photo of my seal driver. I made it for the old lip type garter seal that are so prone to leak. It works good to install the steel retaining ring. You can drive retainer ring in with large socket, but make sure it's installed squarely.
Don

 

Here is the photo of protective plastic around fork leg.
Don