Let me add, I really don't care about the bike being slower, I mostly putt around local country roads and hooliganism is most definitely in my rear view...

 

Don lowered his compression to 7.5 to 1 and happy with the power. I have seen another T120 with 7.5 to 1 and he didn't notice much difference out riding.
You could get a starter roller like i did when starting became too hard. Once warm, i could kick start it. I spent a bit of time making it start easier by adjusting carbs and plug gaps so it normally runs on first or second kick. When it is cold, i have the electric rollers in the garage but i also use a fully synthetic 20/50 in Winter or even a 10/40 oil so there is less oil drag when cold.

 

Roller starter?
Is that pushing it down the street...

 

Ditto. My first thought was a roller starter. Your cover story could be the bike has so much racing parts it requires a racing starter...

 

What's it at now ? Personally I wouldn't use spacers you will destroy any squish if there is any. The options I'm aware of 8.6, 7.9 I think there's even a 7.2. It really depends where it's at now !

 

Stock head, stock pistons...

 

Mains operated pair of rollers as used to start race bikes. Guaranteed it will start very quickly but really needs 2 people to operate as it might be difficult to operate the foot switch while also holding up the bike. This starter is a great way to start up my BSA Spitfire which has 11 to 1 compression. That BSA is actually less effort on the kickstart than the T120r. My roller starter cost £720 but it will keep me riding old bikes a lot longer

 

You guys are giving me visions of a bunch of old duffers riding around for ever never stopping the bikes.😎

 

Sort of Ancient Mariner thing?

 

Using a spacer will also alter the relationship between the push rod, rocker arm and valve stem. Not sure if it makes a big difference. Among the Norton crowd there was great discussions about this and getting push rods with the correct length so as not change the relationship.

 

I vote for an inertial starter from an old WWII aircraft with the roller method mentioned above. It’ll should give you enough time to spin it up and then hop on the bike to engage it plus a workout and glorious noises to boot.

 

I went out for a ride Today, first kick start then rode until i came home non stop. I have made sure i have a perfect tickover so no engine stopping as i pull up behind cars or at road stops.
What i do for petrol now is collect 3 cans in my car and fill up at home.
Not cold enough to need the roller yet but i will need it when it gets to about 6C in Winter.

 

OK...83 here....my backup plan if needed...is park on a hill and bump start...or in lieu of that....have a friend tow me with a line a few yards...

Good looking bike!

Phil

 

One thing that you might investigate is to change some components in the gearbox. I seem to remember a thread on another forum where the guy swopped out a cog in the gearbox for one from another model to lower the kickstart ratio.

The other alternative is to fit a compressed air assistance kit like this one

 

If you have access to the Triumph Oracle database there is a spreadsheet in there that allows you to see what compression ratio you will achieve if you alter the gasket thickness or skim the head.

 

Rob,
Why not just purchase an electric starter kit conversion? They are around £1500, so $2000 give or take. Your motor can remain as it is then and the expense of modifying it can be used on a kit. There must be an outlet in the USA that sell them, if not there are a few in the UK. U-Tube do have instructional videos on how to fit too.
Regards
Carl

 

Hi Carl,

electric starter kit conversion? They

There are only two afaik, the bits Meriden fitted and the one sold by Shropshire Classic Motorcycles?

around £1500

The Meriden bits make rocking-horse poo look common enough to spread on the roses. Group of parts sold recently on the 'Bay for just under £2,000 (two thousand Sterling). The SCM kit is £2,500.

Your motor can remain as it is

Well, sort-of, in both cases. However, in both cases. the electrics must be 'negative earth'.

must be an outlet in the USA

Please link?

if not there are a few in the UK.

Either way, US Customs will apply President Trump's 10% tariff, plus aiui admin. costs that add about another 4%.

Hth.

Regards,

 

I looked into the Electric Start conversion (for a friend) here's a link to the LP Williams kit

Electric Start conversion kit T120 T140

the issue is finding a timing cover not included and permanently unavailable.😬

 

I looked into the Electric Start conversion (for a friend) here's a link to the LP Williams kit

Electric Start conversion kit T120 T140

the issue is finding a timing cover not included and permanently unavailable.😬

I would stay well away from any system that uses the timing chest as the cogs are not up to it. The Shropshire kit works on the clutch side and is the way to go.

 

Hi Ian,

Electric Start conversion kit T120 T140

Risking posting something you know, that's the aforementioned "bits Meriden fitted". As that £1492 doesn't include Rachel's cut, looks like the two-grand Ebay bits including the timing cover were a 'bargain' ...

issue is finding a timing cover not included and permanently unavailable.

Apparently the problem is they crack where the cover was relieved for an idler, remaining ally too thin?

Regards,

 

I rebuilt a 73 Tiger 750 a while back. It needed a rebore. LF Harris said that they only supply the 7.4:1 compression ratio pistons now as their principal clients are aging rockers who need all the help they can get to kick the bike over.
So that’s what I fitted. The bike is dead easy to kick over despite my problems in my lower spine and right leg. The bike has loads of torque and pulls like a train.
Fit those CR pistons and you won’t regret it.

 

Hi, This is something you may want to look into... KickMagic Pneumatic Starters – …so easy a child can do it! . Hope it helps...😎

 

Hello Robj,

I am also 73 years young. I have 7.5 CR pistons in my 65 6T and my 66 T120. Both are easy to start as long as the carb tuning is accurate.
I am not looking for performance, I have a different bike for that. Both are these are classy "putters" and a joy to ride and show off.
Make your life easy, fit the new pistons and freshen up the top end.

Bonesy

 

Come on Freddie, I'm 86 and 175 lbs and can still kick start my 71 tiger to start it - keep trying. John

 

Hi Rob, it seems to me all of the suggestions about roller starters and e-start kits involve a substantial amount of cost and deviation from originality. This was and is a 1977 kickstart-only engine. Why not just fit a set of lower-compression pistons? If your engine number is prior to PP78605, then it was likely fitted with 8.6:1 compression ration pistons. We do offer a set of 76mm 7.4:1 pistons from Hepolite that could make a noticeable difference in kickstarting ease. These pistons are a direct replacement for the 1979-later models, but are compatible with your earlier T140 and will not affect the top end sealing or valvetrain geometry.
-Dave

Triumph 750 Complete Low-Compression Piston Set w/Rings Genuine Hepolite 1979-83 PN# TBS-20432

Triumph 750 Complete Low-Compression Piston Set w/Rings Genuine Hepolite 1979-83 PN# TBS-20432 For Sale Online With LARGEST SELECTION, FAST, FREE SHIPPING To Lower 48 US

www.thebonnevilleshop.com

 

Granted I haven't read every post in this thread but in line with what @The Bonneville Shop stated above engines after PP78605 were fitted with 7.9 pistons from the factory. That would be machines built on or about November 11,1976.

K

 

Hi robj, I have some suggestions that may help you. Many won't agree with me.
These are from real life as I am 73 years old, 142# naked, 5'7". Smaller, shorter, lighter owners can have problems starting these bikes. There are things we can do.

T140 has a robust center stand. Standing on pegs bike on center stand gives you much more effective pressure on kicker. Side stand is less robust, but still pretty strong. I use side stand when on the road & not center stand. I've done both for many years & thousands of miles. Smaller, shorter folks will drop bike if you don't use stands for starting. I've seen this several times on club rides. Often owner gets hurt as bike topples. Especially bad when bike stalls at a stop sign/light. Put it in neutral on side stand & start it. Don't chance dropping bike.

Of course bike should be in perfect tune! This is critical. Points in good shape & gapped if equipped, timing set. Valves adjusted, mixture set & good compression. Air filters clean. If bike has choke, keep it!

The bike will start the same with points, older Boyer, Pazon. Trispark will aid is starting. But we'll work on technique first.

There is no question installing 7.4 pistons aid in starting & bikes run really well with them. They are lighter & often result is a bit less vibration on freeway. There is no question if you have the fuel to support stock 8.6 pistons you get more power. However with lower compression you intuitively give a tad more throttle as need to maintain speed. I can promise you the bike will pass cars, & go 90mph effortlessly. It will climb hills at freeway speeds very well. Going up steep freeway on ramps you rev it to 6000 the power explodes. It just does. This is with stock cam timing. Gas milage seems very similar. I'm only talking of real life. I've ridden my '73 Tiger with points, '73 Bonnie with Trispark, '76 Bonnie with Pazon. I know what they all do in real life. By the way riding over the Sierra mountains at 9000' is effortless & starts good at high altitude. I've covered 12k miles on the 7.4 pistons in all the above conditions. You will never regret 7.4 pistons.

Let's talk about technique. That's very important. Again, on stand only so all your kick can be on lever & you don't worry about balancing bike. I'll post some videos of me & my bike.

It's the tickle that gives starting fuel. Choke allows the bike to run much better after motor actually starts. I'll ride at 28f to 117f. Choke really helps in cold weather. Again it doesn't really make it fire over & start. You must experiment with choke or not & amount of choke.

Hot starting can be very problematic depending on how long bike sits. You'd swear it lost spark. Light tickle, full throttle will often fire it on first kick. It takes some time, but you get a feel for it.

Cold start primer kick may help in cold weather especially on cold start. Often not used hot. But cold can really help. Experiment. Fuel you use & time of year if you have winter & summer fuels.

Clocking the kicker is everything for light riders. You won't use full kicker stroke. You'll clock kicker to about horizontal.

In print, you Turn on fuel. Key off. Set choke as needed. My bike likes full choke cold.

Tickle carb. Some like lots of fuel, mine does, but experiment. It depends on your fuel also.

Free clutch. I have 7 plate clutch & it frees very easily.

Give one gentle primer kick. If motor turns over when freeing clutch, that acts as a primer kick.

This often brings motor to compression. If needed bring to compression & clock kicker down using clutch.

Then raise kicker to horizontal. Give motor a good stiff kick. You notice I'm not kicking like a wild man or any thing.

Also should motor kick back, you'll feel it much less.

The videos shows what & how I do it.

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This video I was in big hurry to get out of town. 77f day. I didn't use choke or primer kick. I should have done primer kick.

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This is after my motor overhaul a few years back. Cold day 42f. I don't believe in dry assembly. It can scratch bores. There was lots of oil in exhaust & mufflers. You see how nicely it started, the smoke went away quickly. Zero smoke after that initial smoke.

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Again again as you can see, real life, nothing hypothetical. After verifying tune is perfect, if you still can't start it. Think about lower compression. It absolutely will kick & start easier. Trispark will help a little, especially hot.
Don

 

Hi robj, I have some suggestions that may help you. Many won't agree with me.
These are from real life as I am 73 years old, 142# naked, 5'7". Smaller, shorter, lighter owners can have problems starting these bikes. There are things we can do.

T140 has a robust center stand. Standing on pegs bike on center stand gives you much more effective pressure on kicker. Side stand is less robust, but still pretty strong. I use side stand when on the road & not center stand. I've done both for many years & thousands of miles. Smaller, shorter folks will drop bike if you don't use stands for starting. I've seen this several times on club rides. Often owner gets hurt as bike topples. Especially bad when bike stalls at a stop sign/light. Put it in neutral on side stand & start it. Don't chance dropping bike.

Of course bike should be in perfect tune! This is critical. Points in good shape & gapped if equipped, timing set. Valves adjusted, mixture set & good compression. Air filters clean. If bike has choke, keep it!

The bike will start the same with points, older Boyer, Pazon. Trispark will aid is starting. But we'll work on technique first.

There is no question installing 7.4 pistons aid in starting & bikes run really well with them. They are lighter & often result is a bit less vibration on freeway. There is no question if you have the fuel to support stock 8.6 pistons you get more power. However with lower compression you intuitively give a tad more throttle as need to maintain speed. I can promise you the bike will pass cars, & go 90mph effortlessly. It will climb hills at freeway speeds very well. Going up steep freeway on ramps you rev it to 6000 the power explodes. It just does. This is with stock cam timing. Gas milage seems very similar. I'm only talking of real life. I've ridden my '73 Tiger with points, '73 Bonnie with Trispark, '76 Bonnie with Pazon. I know what they all do in real life. By the way riding over the Sierra mountains at 9000' is effortless & starts good at high altitude. I've covered 12k miles on the 7.4 pistons in all the above conditions. You will never regret 7.4 pistons.

Let's talk about technique. That's very important. Again, on stand only so all your kick can be on lever & you don't worry about balancing bike. I'll post some videos of me & my bike.

It's the tickle that gives starting fuel. Choke allows the bike to run much better after motor actually starts. I'll ride at 28f to 117f. Choke really helps in cold weather. Again it doesn't really make it fire over & start. You must experiment with choke or not & amount of choke.

Hot starting can be very problematic depending on how long bike sits. You'd swear it lost spark. Light tickle, full throttle will often fire it on first kick. It takes some time, but you get a feel for it.

Cold start primer kick may help in cold weather especially on cold start. Often not used hot. But cold can really help. Experiment. Fuel you use & time of year if you have winter & summer fuels.

Clocking the kicker is everything for light riders. You won't use full kicker stroke. You'll clock kicker to about horizontal.

In print, you Turn on fuel. Key off. Set choke as needed. My bike likes full choke cold.

Tickle carb. Some like lots of fuel, mine does, but experiment. It depends on your fuel also.

Free clutch. I have 7 plate clutch & it frees very easily.

Give one gentle primer kick. If motor turns over when freeing clutch, that acts as a primer kick.

This often brings motor to compression. If needed bring to compression & clock kicker down using clutch.

Then raise kicker to horizontal. Give motor a good stiff kick. You notice I'm not kicking like a wild man or any thing.

Also should motor kick back, you'll feel it much less.

The videos shows what & how I do it.

iCloud Photos - Apple iCloud

View, organize, and share photos and videos with iCloud Photos on the web. Changes will sync across your devices with iCloud.

share.icloud.com

This video I was in big hurry to get out of town. 77f day. I didn't use choke or primer kick. I should have done primer kick.

iCloud Photos - Apple iCloud

View, organize, and share photos and videos with iCloud Photos on the web. Changes will sync across your devices with iCloud.

share.icloud.com

This is after my motor overhaul a few years back. Cold day 42f. I don't believe in dry assembly. It can scratch bores. There was lots of oil in exhaust & mufflers. You see how nicely it started, the smoke went away quickly. Zero smoke after that initial smoke.

iCloud Photos - Apple iCloud

View, organize, and share photos and videos with iCloud Photos on the web. Changes will sync across your devices with iCloud.

share.icloud.com

Again again as you can see, real life, nothing hypothetical. After verifying tune is perfect, if you still can't start it. Think about lower compression. It absolutely will kick & start easier. Trispark will help a little, especially hot.
Don

Good to see you back here Don!
-Dave

 

Welcome back Don……

 

KISS...buy a can of starter fluid....squirt into air filter ....kick over...spark...ignition....at least on recalcitrant motors the ether will fire anything...use sparingly!