don"t

 

You've opened a can of worms, you require modern oils to break down the chemicals that are now in modern petrol esp. after they took the lead out. If not the chemicals in the petrol will turn the older type of oils into carbon. I would certainly use a semi synthetic oil.

 

I'd be happy enough to to use something like Mobil 1 V Twin 20W50,once the rings were bedded in.It's still got plenty of zinc and phosphorous,to protect cams.
Most oils later than API SG rating are suspect,until proven otherwise.

Some engines never bed in.It all starts at assembly,before you even start the engine.A coarse enough hone and "dry" ring assembly will help.Then it depends on how you run the engine,after a re-build.A low detergent/dipersant oil can help if you're not putting enough load on the engine after a re-build.Allowing an engine to idle (fast or slow) after a re-build is never good.Synthetic oils would not be good after a re-build.

 

Most oils later than API SG rating are suspect,until proven otherwise. Please explain

 

This might explain some:http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456006#Post456006
Oils after SG rating had reduced zinc and phosphorous,to meet the later standard.Zinc levels went down and down and friction modifier levels went up.Newer cars couldn't run flat tappet cams with the reduced zinc and phosphorous,and went to roller tappets.

Supposedly,the reduced zinc levels aren't compulsory for oils heavier than SAE 30.In some oils,it's still been reduced even if the oil is 20W40 and the reduction is not compulsory.
Later diesel oils also had a zinc reduction.

 

Thank you for your reply,MHABERTHUR was asking about long term use of modern oils after the BREAK in period

 

If you have an RT or any other 70's Vintage bike I wouldnt use a synthetic oil. Understand I have no problem with Syn oils or partial syn oils and use them in some of my engines. Since 1970 oil has changed in many ways some good some not so good for vintage bikes. I will only use oil rated for motorcycles and will not used oil that are rated as energy saving due to additive packages.
Question why do you think a T120RT would require a libricant different from say a TR6R

K

 

I have used Valvolene 20w/50 4 stroke motorcycle oil rated SG in my bikes for years. Widely available and reasonably priced. If one of the selling points of synthetics is increased intervals between oil changes, they make little sense in these bikes.
Since my bikes seem relatively small mileage every year, I'm more concerned about changing my oil fairly frequently to remove the combustion by products.
Because of their basically similar designs any oil recommended for a Harley will work in a Brit bike.

 

Thanks for all the replys. I use synthetics in all my equipment mainly due to the ability of synthetics to withstand heat better. I live in Reno Nevada. I'm about 70 miles into breakin. Plan on changing oil at 150, 300, 500, 750 and 1000. Maybe a bit much but I have access to an oil spectrometer and oil is cheap. To KADUTZ, the bike in question is a T120RT. Verified thru the AMA Museum. God but this bike is pretty!!

 

To KADUTZ, the bike in question is a T120RT. Verified thru the AMA Museum. God but this bike is pretty!!

Thats great. Do you have an East Coast or West Coast RT?

K

 

Good question. I'm not sure. The response from the museum didnt specify . Any idea as to how I find out? My serial number starts out as BD. I believe that means a February build date?

 

If your T in the RT is shaped like 'T' it is an East Coast bike on the other hand if the T looks like T it is a West Coast bike. The AMA never makes a comment as to this. It was an unnoticed fact until I mentioned it to someone at Mid-Ohio in 2008.
We are lucky the AMA is at least confirming VIN's.
You are correct BD is a Feb '70 build date. My bike is BD 41961.
It was built Feb 19,1970 and dispatched on Feb 20th to TRICOR (East Coast Dist). It was inspected and ceritified on May 21,1970 by the AMA.
Sorry for the delay in answering as it slipped my mind.

K

 

Choice of oils

Over the years I have investigated and learned that the most expensive oils aren't any better than the cheaper ones, as long as the ratings are the same. I use Super-Tech 20-50w in both my '67 TR6 and T120R. They both have about 400 miles on a rebuilt engine. I also have added 1-2 ounces of Zinc additive at each oil change, which I do once a year, regardless of mileage. I have a 1991 Cub Cadet mower and I recently put in a new camshaft and the engine was like new inside using the cheaper oils. I have never had any engine problems in cars, cycles, mowers, etc. using any and all oils in my life of 48 years with machines. Changing the oil and filter regularly seems to be the safest way.Just my 2 cents.

 

I am using a mix of Duckhams 20/50 and Morris 10/40 with half a tin of STP after my rebuild a few weeks back.Next change,it gets Morris 20/50 V-twin oil.I like to use motorcycle specific oils as they are designed with the wet clutch in mind.
My findings are that a 20/50 tends not to leak from the engine and synths do leak.Take the synth out and use the mineral and the leak goes.Currently,i have taken a lot of care bulding my engine so I have no leaks at all.Still burning a little oil as I removed all the carbon from the pistons,valve guides,top of bores and deglazed the bores.In a thousand miles,it will burn no oil...I hope !

 

Anyone know anything about Millers oils? I ask because I've just bought a 5l can with the intention of changing to it, from the cheapo 20/50 I've been using for running-in.

This is what is says on the can:-
Millers Classic Performance 20w50
Premium Mineral Engine Oil
API SJ/CF
Contains high ZDDP level

Is this trustworthy? I've only vaguely heard of Millers oils before but somehow had the idea that they're ok. Now is the time for me to find out, as I need to change the oil before many more miles!

PS: I was thinking of Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15/50, but I have to buy a box of 4 x 4l cans, which is £150+, so that put me off...

 

Exceptionally good oil and company, I have uesd them for years.

 

Thanks Doc! I'll use it without worries then.

 

Triumph 1969

I have used for years now 15W40 Shell Rotella diesel oil because it still has ZDDP. I use the same diesel oil 15W40 in my 96 Monte Carlo, 85 Corvette, and my 1968 Corvette which has never had the engine apart and has 99K miles. The Monte has 144K and the 85 Corvette has 106K.

 

For information on the 70 T120RT please visit this site:http://triumphbonneville120.co.uk/1970-t120rt.php

 

AD38457 is a nice bike but it is missing the Taillight extender & has incorrect Clear Hooter horns.


K

 

Those are the correct horns if they are metal dome covers. I believe the 1969 Bonnie had plastic domes on the outside of the horn. My workshop manual shows the domed horns on a 70 Bonnie and I read or saw some where that the 70 had the metal dome for a while until Clear Hooter stopped making them or couldn't keep up with demand for some reason or another. Or something about the dealers not installing the complete horn. I'll have to look and see if I can find the correct story on those horns. I have a set of the metal domed horns on my bike.

 

While this style horn is correct for early model 70's by the time AD38457 was built a different model Clear Hooter was being used across the line. Tridents used the same horns. IT WAS NOT a Lucas as stated in the Brooke/Gaylin book TRIUMPH IN AMERICA.
If you doubt me Google T120RT OLD F and look for a picture of his bike that is an original one.
For what its worth I'm the guy that gave Terry the published RT info on his site.


K

 

Wow! It's great to hear from such a knowledgeable RT person. Where was the cut off in VIN numbers when they stopped installing the domed Clear Hooters! The reason I posted the link to Terry's website was I thought that was the place I got the information regarding the difference in the "T" that was stamped after the R in RT. The east coast stamped a plane T and the west coast stamped with a T styled like Terry's bike has. However, I just looked at Terry's site again and didn't see anything regarding the different styled T's. So I'm not sure where I got that information.

 

AD38457 is a nice bike but it is missing the Taillight extender & has incorrect Clear Hooter horns.

Kadutz,
If I was Terry, I'd remove the taillight extender too. It must have been a State or Federal requirement in 1970. I'd like to know if you have any information on it.

 

The taillight extender was a US DOT requirement on bikes made on or after January 1,1970. It was designed so the police could read the plate easier by being more up/down. If you wish to see it in more detail it is in the 1971 T150 Parts Book.

There is a T120RT on page 119 in the book TRIUMPH MOTORCYCLE RESTORATION GUIDE BONNEVILLE & TR6 1956-1983 (David Gaylin) with the extender. Also please note the horns on Ken's bike are not doomed. If I remember correctly that bike has a VIN starting ED

Regarding the "T" in RT you might want to read on this Forum Do you think its real? Last post was 12/13/07 by Quagmire.

Also go over to www.Britbike.com go to the old Brit Bike Forum area. Look for the thread that starts (about page 33) Interesting Bike T120RT AMA Racer the last post was 12/26/2007.

These are the threads that gathered the info which got the AMA to confirm the VINS of the RT model. The above threads also contain the first ever mention of the difference in the T.

If we are lucky a few pictures of my engine will show up which shows an East Coast "T".

K

 

Back to oils: Anyone know whether the kind of common 15/40 or 10/40 sold at petrol/gas stations is any good in a T140? Maybe if some ZDDP additive is added?

I'm thinking about touring Europe, where I wouldn't want to go into cities looking for specialist bike shops to get specialist oils. I'll start a new thread on the general forum on this too, but any advice on this one would be welcome.

 

oil in Europe

Is Shell Rotella 15W40 available in Europe? Widely available In USA it has the ZDDP for my 69 Triumph's 650 motor.

 

Kadutz, Thanks for the information.

 

There is absolutely no problem running a T140 on semi or fully synthetic oil. Over the years there has been lots of scaremongering re its use,a typical example being it causes clutch slip - not an issue if you use a good quality oil with a JASO MA or MA2 rating. Off the top of my head here in the uk Silkolene super 4 20w50 is a good choice for a semi-synthetic oil. Rock Oil Guardian is also good stuff. Me? i've used both with good results although I do prefer Silkolene. Running synthetics (or semi) in "classic" bikes is not a problem. My 1965 Tiger 90 has been running on synthetic oil since the early 90's and has covered 40,000+ miles on its pistons and bores, which were still perfect when I took the head off to replace pushrod tube oil seals.
The 1st thing I did when I got my T140 was switch to semi-synthetic!

 

Its good to get any feedback based on genuine first-hand experience Mark, thanks. I'll be using Silkolene 20/50 in my T140 once I've run it in. But I'm still keen to get any first-hand knowledge on using lighter weight oils, whether syn/semi-syn or mineral, when touring Europe. If previous experience is anything to go by, 10/40 is by far the most common, 15/40 if you're lucky, and 20/50 is almost unheard of.

 

I use a universal semi- synthetic oil 15/40, which is suitable for petrol or diesel engines. I have now done 15000 miles with no problems. I work on the premise, if it's good enough for turbo's, the heat and revs they obtain, I think it's good enough for my bike.