I bought a K&N 204 from Amazon awhile back. About a month ago I got a message notifying me of the recall. I took 2 pictures, shot them a copy of my Amazon order, and received a new filter in the mail about a week later. They also offered a refund in lieu of the filter. It was pretty painless, but then, I’ve got an inordinate amount of time on my hands.

 

There are many horror threads here re those filters, one from a rider who lost his engine over lack of oil. There's many good filter brands for Bonnies, check the 'sticky' here. I use Hi-Flo or Triumph for example.

 

The probem is that K&N filter has a little 17mm nut welded to the bottom for ease of installation and removal.

The above quote shows the error of your ways.
The welded nut is for removal only!
At least you're man enough to admit your error.

Rex

 

So from this statement are we to conclude that all those who have reported failures despite never using the weld nut to install/torque the filter are lying?

Please explain yourself...

 

I switched to the HI-Flo on this oil change to avoid an issues with the K&N myself.

 

Hi Rex, So if that is the case then I am not the only one who did not understand that the nut was only for removal. Also since according to the manual the oil filter is to be torqued to 10mn (which I did) then the manufacturer should have at least made the nut installation strong enough to withstand that small amount of torque. I do not recall reading any warning about the nut being used for removal only.

 

You didn't make a mistake, installing the filters like that is fine. The filter was defective.

It's too easy to overtorque the filter when installing with a wrench, but it doesn't lead to destroying the filter unless you get crazy. Or shouldn't. If it does, filter was defective.

Myths that welds somehow survive counter-clockwise torque better than clockwise-torque are unfounded

 

I recently acquired a 2010 SE. It had one of those filters on it.

I replaced it with a WIX filter and used a cup style filter tool to install it.

Seems like a solution that has caused far more problems than the issue of how to install a filter. I didn't like the slightly lower point of the filter. Seems like its hanging there waiting to hit something.

Anyway, get a cup filter tool that will work on any filter and problem solved.

 

K&N has marked the box that the filter comes in pretty specifically as to wrench use.

As to torquing an oil filter...stop it!
After you have your new filter filled with fresh oil and the O-ring seal coated with a light film of oil,
screw the filter on to the engine until the seal contacts the mounting surface.
then tighten the filter, by hand, an additional 1/2 to 3/4 turn.

Triumph has an entire crew of OCD manual writers who have a specific torque for EVERYTHING!
Note the torque value for the plastic windscreen screws used on my Tiger 1050.

Rex

 

About 45 years ago I re built 650 Triumph twins without having a torque wrench, never any problems.

 

I torque my oil filter every time. 100k miles on the bike, no issues. :dunno

Torque my axle nut too :tongue

 

I'll call you the next time I have my windscreen off.


Rex

 

I imagine the K&N product engineers talking to the marketing/packaging folks.

"Look, like you've instructed us, we've spot welded this nut-shaped piece of sheet metal on to the filter so folks can remove them easier. If they tighten the filter with it, it might rupture the steel and fail so I don't think this is a good idea. Let's just not put that on there,"

Marketing, "No, its good. We'll just put it in the instructions for people to only use it to remove the filter. We'll even make a logo. Because people are smart, read the instructions and always think things through."


And now here we are.

 

Or, an alternate possibility:
Marketing, "No, its good. We'll just lower the weld point QC standards so that the welds fail whether or not the user toques the nut for install."

>

 

gotcha. You know, in the past I always put my filters on hand tight and turned them an additional 1/2 turn or so. When I got my Triumph manual they call for 10nms so I figured what the hell, I will give it a go. Well the heck with that from now on!! Also I will admit that since I had never ever used a K&N filter I thought well that will be an easy way to torque it. WRONG!!! In my defense the thing lasted for over 2,000km before it bit the dust. The failures I have read about also happened after about that many Kilometers. SO, I am wondering if other folks got sucked into the torque thing as I did. Anyway, I have eliminated the issue by going back to my old ways. LOL

 

I agree with you. I cannot help but think if I had damaged the filter when torquing it to the specified torque the thing would not have waited until 2,000km to fail. Again, I have eliminated the issue by eliminating the brand of filter. Simple fix.

 

I like K&N air filters but when I bought a mess of Tiger parts the new K&N oil filter went right into the garbage.
One failure was enough to spook me as that's a lot of hot oil right next to the rear tire.

 

Not a fan of their air filters either. AEM dry flow have been proven to both flow better and stop more particulates than their oil soaked gimmick.

 

I gotta agree. I am almost 73 years old, worked on engines all my life. I have NEVER torqued an oil filter in my life. (hand tighten only). I don't like K&N's oil soaked screen door they call an air filter, so I don't buy thier oil filters either. Funny thing, I don't have oil running out of any of my bikes either. ...J.D.

 

I just changed my oil yesterday on my new-to-me T100. Imagine my dismay when I learned of the recall through this thread today. So it seems I can get a new filter, big deal. I want $50 to cover the oil I’m about to dump. I’m pi$$ed!!!

 

You can dump it into a clean pan and put it back in.

There won't be much anyways, the oil filter sits pretty high above the oil level. Not much will come out when you remove the filter.

Your odds of survival are pretty high if you decide not to mess with it and leave it on though. I mean, as long as you didn't exert any clockwise torque on the nut, of course

 

Ok, good to know. And I swear I didn’t use the nut to tighten it. I swear. Honest. :|

 

It was one batch of KN204 filters that was bad. NOT THE ENTIRE PRODUCT LINE!!! K&N produces oil filters with the same exact welded 17mm nut for dozens, if not hundreds of different motorcycles. I'm not surprised that there are some old inventory of bad filters still out there, especially with generic vendors who do not move a lot of Triumph parts.

Look at the bottom of your leaky filter and examine it for any signs it was crushed a wee bit from the use of a floor jack. That's how I broke my filter... by being careless when jacking up the bike.

/M

 

It was one batch of KN204 filters that was bad. NOT THE ENTIRE PRODUCT LINE!!! K&N produces oil filters with the same exact welded 17mm nut for dozens, if not hundreds of different motorcycles. I'm not surprised that there are some old inventory of bad filters still out there,

/M

If only the above were true. Fact is these filters have had failing weld nuts going back to at least 2012... just Google for reports dating back then. And not just the 204 version on our bikes...cars too.
Solution looking for an actual problem! Poor QC, poorer concept to put a hex nut on something with expectation to only be used in one direction. Can anyone think of another situation where a hex nut is only for one direction?

 

I have a Filtro on my Ninja with the same nut on the end. No issues at all.

 

Alright, as a preface let me say I know I'm a nerd. Quite possibly a loser too.

So, I went out and bought a KN-204. Don't worry, I didn't let it near my motorcycle, given how dangerous they are. I took my car, and kept it in the trunk.

First of all, there are no warnings on it, box or filter, about using the nut to install. Actually, there are no instructions at all. Not even the typical 1/2 to 3/4 turns after the gasket makes contact (which 10Nm will get you). I suspect you could to that with your hands or with a wrench.

Second, the nut doesn't protrude as much as I expected. It's because the canister itself is smaller than OEM. I guess the fact it has less filtering capacity is made up for by it's superior filtering media? But that nut extends about 1/8", maybe 3/16", further than the OEM filter. I took a straight edge to the bottom of my bike and my OEM filter sits exactly flush if I run the edge rail-rail. Which probably just means I crushed it a little bit when using my floor jack at some point. So the nut is subject to a bit of abuse if you use the jack wrong, not much. Hard to imagine it getting knocked by a curbstone or anything.

I fully was going to take a torque wrench to that nut and see how much it could withstand. Because I'm pretty sure it can take 10Nm without an issue, being that it's not make out of tissue paper or similar. But ... the damn thing cost me $19 plus change So I'm going to end the scientific study before I get to the destructive testing stage I'll return it tomorrow.


I've never had an issue with removing a filter, I don't need that nut or the extra expense or less filtering medium. I'll stick to OEM, or a Mobil M1-108 if I can't find that.

 

I've always liked K&Ns. Not because I think they are any better than any other brand, but mainly because I could always find the ones I needed fairly easily, regardless of the make/model of bike. I suppose if I ever do have a failure I would switch to something else, but can see no reason to now.

 

I hand tighten all oil filters until I can just barely break it loose. I figure my strength will maintain enough to remove it the next time without tools and so far that's worked out well. Of course, you can't beat following a torque spec but I'll take my chances.

 

I checked my filter on the S3 RS and it seems to be fine. I don't know I am pretty anal about torque specs etc but I never torqued down an oil filter either on a motorcycle or a car. I just do the good old hand 3/4 to full turn once the o-ring comes into contact.

 

If only the above were true. Fact is these filters have had failing weld nuts going back to at least 2012..

ONCE AGAIN, I repeat: These are single isolated reports of failed filters -before- the one (1) bad batch of KN204's run a couple years ago. The one (1) bad batch affected hundreds of filters out of the 10's of thousands K&N sells annually using the exact 17mm nut and welding process.

It is my strongest belief that the vast majority of these isolated failures are a result of misuse (such as overtightening the filter using the nut or crushing the filter with a floor jack (very easy to do on a Hinckley twin).

Understand, I'm just trying to bring some industry insider perceptive to the subject. Yes, I sell these filters, so I have skin in the game. But who else on the board can say that they met face-to-face with key management from K&N and discussed this specific subject? K&N is not evil. They DO care very much about their customers. They're an international (I'd guess) Billion dollar corporation with staggering product liability exposure. To say they knowingly produce a defective product that can potentially harm people is naive & laughable. But are those who will say otherwise.

/M

 

ONCE AGAIN, I repeat: These are single isolated reports of failed filters -before- the one (1) bad batch of KN204's run a couple years ago. The one (1) bad batch affected hundreds of filters out of the 10's of thousands K&N sells annually using the exact 17mm nut and welding process.

It is my strongest belief that the vast majority of these isolated failures are a result of misuse (such as overtightening the filter using the nut or crushing the filter with a floor jack (very easy to do on a Hinckley twin).


/M

So say you and the corporation. Sorry, that's not good enough. Fro
The IMPARTIAL perspective, looks very much like these filters have been showing failures for nearly a decade now. We have know way of knowing true numbers involved, reports on Web are sporadic and no way to get at real scale of the problem. Your belief vast majority are due to improper installation once again raises the spector of a bad design leading to dangerous improper use. Putting a warning label to tell users to only use nut for removal is like telling people that the zipper on their jeans is for taki.g off the pant only. Stupid. This is completely at the feet of K&N to redesign or remove these from the market.

If they are so concerned for their customers why not design them so it doesn't matter if they are wrenched on? Problem solved! Or, why not redesign so there's some kind of one way ratchet on the nut to prevent Wrenching on? Problem Solved. Or pull them off market and problem solved.
How long before we hear of a serious accident/death from these things?

 

OH, FOR PETE'S SAKE...………...JUST BUY A DIFFERENT FILTER!!! This has become a "tempest in a teapot"! Anyone want to "discuss" the best oil to use in the bikes??
Just the considered opinion of the "village idiot": Jim

 

Rex - are you working your way through French cities ?

Bjorn Toulouse
Rode to Rouen

What's next .... NICE'n' Easy ?

 

What's next .... NICE'n' Easy ?

Don't hold yer breath waiting for that one, Mick!

Rex