Resurrecting my pops 1964 TR6r. Fitted a new carb, cleaned the points contact and checked the gap, new battery. Changed engine, transmission and gearbox oils revealed the outer covers on primary and gearbox. Checked valve adjustment, cleaned fuel tank. New throttle, choke and clutch cables. New Air cleaner, fuel lines etc. High octane race gas and high zinc valvoline VR 1 motor oil.

Buddy of mine coming over to witness the resurrection tomorrow. Said he'd hold the hose if it catches on fire (unlikely). Pics and maybe a video for posterity if successful .
Wish me luck!

Good luck. I would kick it over a few times first. Then hold clutch in and kick over until the plates free. Odds are they are stuck. As long as it has spark, fuel and reasonable compression it should go brmmmm!

 

Definitely worth it to have a video recording.

Good Luck and Good Karma

 

Hi Jason,

As the bike's stood so long unused, before attempting to start the engine, I recommend following most of the the advice in Waking The Sleeping Beast; however, modify two pieces of the advice:-

. Oil quantity into the crankcase - WTSB was written for triples, that obviously have a larger crankcase volume than twins; I suggest one-and-a-half US pints.

. As your bike's primary chaincase is sealed from the crankcase, I suggest putting the oil for the crankcase down a pushrod tube from a rocker-box - I use a funnel with a short length of hose on its end, the other end of the hose poked towards the top of the pushrod tube over the top of the rockers - bit time-consuming but given what author Phil wrote about splash lubrication, and lack of, inside the crankcase? Risking posting the obvious, oil quantity into the crankcase should be subtracted from the total engine oil quantity, just the remainder into the tank.

Hth.

Regards,

 

I would use a different oil in the primary as VR1 is an oil made for cars and may have friction modifiers. It is an excellent engine oil for a hard worked engine and often used in Rally cars.
Clutch may, or may not slip with VR1.. Good luck with the start up, it should be fun

 

Hi Geoff,

1964 TR6r

use a different oil in the primary as VR1

As the OP's bike's a '64, one hopes he isn't using any sort of engine oil in the primary ...

Regards,

 

Pint and a half of VR 1 in the crankcase, ATF in the primary.

 

Hi Kick Rocks, Waking the sleeping beast is a very conservative approach. I chose to do a form of that after 34 years of storage. Saying that, thousands, just do what you did & start it up.

Bullwinkle the bike broker tries to only sell running bikes. Most have been in very long storage. He fixes fuel leaks, only cleans carb if absolutely needed. Often doesn't even change oil. Just starts them up. If they move under their own power they are good go sell. He let's buyers road test. Then sells 100% as is. Doing tear down & motor exam many thousands of miles later, the cam & tappets had zero damage. Actually the entire motor had zero damage from the dry start. Tear down was to install low compression pistons. Sadly the pinging, detonation had damaged left rod bushing, so it needed new rods also. This led to full overhaul.

One thing that is very helpful is oiling the rings so you get better compression after storage. A table spoon down plug holes & kick it over 4-5 times to spread oil. Dry rings can be tough to start. John's bike was in storage from about

If you have spark, which I'm sure you checked. Timing is at least close, a good free tickle where fuel runs down side of carbs, free clutch & a good swift kick. Very likely will start right up first kick. Keep it revving as it will not idle cold. Like 3000. This also gets oil to cams & all that.

Please video & post a link here. Most fun to see a first start. Very, very exciting!
Don

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aFPb114DDuoiZteE8

Fired right up.

 

Awesome

Thanks for sharing. Bike looks great.

 

Well, it sounds just right. Smoked a bit when clearing the oil in the crankcase but that will soon stop. Now get it riding around again

 

Don, I followed the method you had talked about by filling the case to the top of the head with oil and let it sit overnight. Letting those bearings get some lube before firing up was a a big concern. Drained all of that and put a pint and half back in so the scavenge pump had something to draw from and to get some splash under the pistons. I had already put oil on top of the pistons a month ago and felt they were going to be ok. Turns out they were.
The video isn't long enough but the left cylinder smoked a good bit for a few minutes. Did a heat soak, let it cool down and fired up again-smoke was gone. Tuned the air screw a bit and got it to idle well too.
Ran it around the neighborhood no higher than 2nd gear. Bike had a hard time taking more than 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, just fell on its face. Not popping just wouldn't take more fuel. Replaced the 330 main jet with the original 310 jet from the old carb and that didn't change anything. Also put the air cleaner on as well. No positive difference. Not sure if this from the advance not working right but that's what I suspect at this point.
Bike leaks like a sieve-mostly gear oil from the looks of it and not from the outer rh side cover which I resealed. I'm thinking the inner mating surface of the gearbox.
Also, on start up, a ton of oil came puking out of the breather tube that goes from the oil reservoir to the rear fender. This cleared up after a few more turns around the neighborhood. But it is still coming out a good bit.

Need to check if that advance is working right, need to find my timing light.
Other than all of the above I'm thrilled its running!

 

Thanks to all for helping me get this far, the advice, encouragement and resource was a big help.
Thanks for being as enthusiastic as I am in getting to this point.

 

Great job !!! Bike looks to be in fantastic shape too

 

Hi kick Rocks, Wow! Fantastic! Obviously you did your homework.

That bike is in really good shape. Wow.

These bikes spit oil out the breather often. I would not address that for at least a 1000 miles. Let the rings free up well & see. The disc breather system off the intake cam is marginal. It is what it is. As rings wear & you get more blow by. The breather struggles to keep up. Even with perfect rings the breather can drop oil. Lots of experiance with these breathers. Highly unlikely the disc has problem. There is test for that.
The primary breather introduced 1970 on 650 cured the oil drips, but introduced other problems like condensation in primary which could result in rust. We deal with what we have. I remember like yesterday going to Triumph dealership in Walnut Creek & a brand new orange & white in the showroom window. Been a Triumph fan ever since.

Hard to say what the running problem is. No doubt you'll sort that out carb or timing. Flip a coin. Timing is harder on a '64, but you'll get it.

No telling where oil leak is from. Only diagnosis will show that. Sometimes I'll hose bottom off with garden hose. Wipe & let it dry. Then get flash light & mirror. Ride a bit & check. Multiple leaks are not uncommon. Over time you'll sort all this out.
Don

 

The single carb 650's are so sweet, started easy, sounds healthy, next step is to take it for a ride! Congrats!

 

Hi Marcus,

Clutch may, or may not slip with VR1.

Seconded. While maybe not detrimental, I would move away from VR1 for the sake of the clutch.

On these bikes, the clutch is in the primary chaincase. On the OP's bike, the primary is sealed from the crankcase. As the OP has posted already:-

ATF in the primary.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Hey Kid,
Bravo on bringing new life to your fine TR6!
As Roy Bacon has stated, It's a "heady" moment when you hear the long sleeping Triumph come to life.
Have you checked the points centrifugal advance assembly? It may be sticking or frozen due to old grease. Condensers may also be questionable.
You may also want to invest in a degree wheel kit for that old 4CA setup. I upgraded both of my mid 60's 650s to the newer 6CA ignition so I could time the bikes dynamically with a strobe light.
You'll have her purring down the road in no time....

Keep us posted on your progress..

Bonesy

 

Bonney,
Thanks. I first questioned the advance being a possibility. I also have old champion N-4 plugs that looked serviceable but my first move is to replace the ancient spark plug wires and plugs. My wires are brittle and I suspect they may be the immediate problem. Bike will rev with no load but bogs down with a load. I've been scouring the site here and found a tidbit from Peg that mentioned something to that effect. I also checked the gap on the points and one was a bit out of spec too. Ran a little better once I made the adjustment but not much. Condensers are also a concern as you mentioned.
Didn't know a 6ca could be swapped for the older 4ca unit. When I decide to replace, I will go with your suggestion to upgrade.
I know I'm close, just needs a bit more tinkering to get there.
I do have a timing wheel that was passed on with the bike, a big one and a small one. One for either side of the engine depending on what the aim is I guess? Or the big one is for a Volkswagen and just randomly made its way into the box of parts.
Having a bunch of fun in the mean time.

J.

 

Your timing will be a lot more accurate with a Boyer MK1V system or similar. Set once and forget until the engine needs more repairs. The chance of finding the old points system and balance weights is quite low

 

Of course, as you are following the ignition path, the problem might well be something like blocked pilot jet or bleed holes in the carb, the world can be unkind like that.

 

I'm going down the ignition path right now. New carb that I've taken apart and cleaned out based on recommendations here. And the fact the carb is a giant pain in the butt to put in and out, I only want to do it if needed.

It's either ignition or fuel related at this point.
Of course it could be the loose nut behind the handlebars.

 

Instead of cost of replacing with points, highly recommend going with an electronic system. In lower price range would recommend Pazon Surefire. TriSpark has some nice additional features but is a bit spendy. If you go with the Pazon, budget for some new 6v coils. They will give a better spark than the 12v.

 

Hi Jason,

replace the ancient spark plug wires

Be aware there's an awful lot of junk out there - plenty of wires cut off a bulk roll, supplied with plug caps that screw in the end of a wire.

Triumph moved away from separate plug caps all the way back in '71, to wires with both coil and plug terminal crimped on the ends, both terminals covered with (different-shape) plastic caps that fitted over either coil or plug. Much more long-term reliable.

However, making modern replacement slightly more difficult is '71 was also when the 650 engine went into the OIF - different coils position from the dry-frame, long plug wires same as triples. Nevertheless, the 500 remained dry-frame, coils in the same position as your bike, certainly Mitch Klempf, CBS and The Bonneville Shop appear to advertise the correct complete plug wires/terminals/caps.

6ca
swapped for the older 4ca unit. When I decide to replace, I will go with your suggestion

Proverbial "polishing a turd" ime. Points require condensers; even before Triumph swapped to fitting the 6CA points plate, they were mounting condensers on the frame bracket under the front of the tank:-

... both CBS and the only Ebay listing I found said "Sold out";

. Britbike owners have been swapping to electronic ignition for half-a-century to my certain knowledge; I remember John Healy posting decades ago on BritBike lamenting the quality of the points available even from the original Lucas company before it was taken over.

. Points are also over the mechanical auto-advance; unless your Dad replaced that with new not long before he stopped riding the bike, it's likely worn? Several past posts on here say mechanical advance curve is poor for modern fuel.

timing wheel
big one and a small one. One for either side of the engine depending on what the aim is I guess?

To fit a timing wheel on the timing (right-hand looking forwards) end of the crank, you'd have to remove the timing cover, that holds the points and auto-advance. To do the timing on your bike, you have to remove the primary chaincase, fit the timing wheel on that end of the crank, lock the auto-advance in the full-advance position then work between the two sides.

I fitted my first Triumph with EI at its first 3,000-mile service 47 years ago. Never regretted it.

Having a bunch of fun in the mean time.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Hey Mr, Rocks,

When I got my 66 Bonnie at age 17, I was very ham fisted and made many mistakes learning how to properly service it.
It had the stock 4CA ignition. I thought working with that was far easier than the BTH magneto in my first Triumph, a 59 pre-unit.
I bought a small degree wheel kit which had arm that attached to the exhaust camshaft via the bolt which holds the point cam in place. It had a stepped washer that held the points cam in full advance. You made a indicator pointer out of stiff wire to reference the marks on the degree wheel. It got timing close. There is a pic of this wheel in the factory service manual. But, it was still static timing, not dynamic.

I imagine a full 6CA parts setup and primary chaincase cover with the removable plate AND a new rotor must be difficult to source these days. In which case, an E I would be the best way to go. I have used Dyna systems in my Moto Guzzi and BMW.

You mentioned you replaced the carb. Did you stay with the Monoblock 389 or go to the Concentric 930?

Carry on sir....

Bonesy

 

Bonesy,
I stayed with the 389 monobloc.