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Cold starts?

1.7K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  nickjaxe  
#1 ·
hey guys i am find that my Bonnie doesn't start straight away, i keep her on a charge overnight not sure if it's a common thing coming into winter? have to start her a few times before she kicks in... 2024 model
 
#2 ·
I had a 2018 Speedmaster that developed that problem over time. It turned out to be the fuel filter or fuel pump or something thereabouts. It's definitely not a "normal" thing. My 2024 Speedmaster starts immediately, every time.
Unless yours is cranking slowly, I wouldn't think it's a battery issue. More likely in the fuel system, or maybe spark plugs. Have you pulled and inspected the plugs/checked gaps?
 
#4 ·
It all depend on what you consider "normal".

There is an important matter with modern digital bikes old school drivers use not to be aware.

With old bikes it was the direct action of starter motor what activated the ignition. So you usually noticed slow movement on start before noticing lack of ignition.

But in this bike those are totally different processes, being the ignition purely managed by ECU. But those electronic controls usually do not "work slow" but "work over X volt/amp available - no work if volt/amp is not enough".

So if your battery is not in perfect shape, and have the load charge reduced by wear, you can find the bike where the available power is enough to move the starter, but the inherent voltage reduction to that operation comes to be not enough to activate the electronic systems.

Result: The engine moves at a speed that seems to be enough to start, but there is no ignition at all. Low temperatures increase that effect.

That reduces battery usage range compared to old analogic systems - problems of the XXIst century. 😅

Now we have available very cheap and compact power banks that can be used as engine power starters (not to keep the battery charged, but to get discharge enough to start the engine with no battery) - something like this: aliexpress.com/item/1005008057178288.html - this is kind of a nice device to have as one of our "emergency tools".

Part of the interest of such a device is that it can be used to test the status of the battery. If you link it and start is fast then you know the battery is aged.

You can also use the classic start cables linked to a car.

If problem persist, then it is time to look at fuel pump, ignition, etc. But 8 of every 10 times you will notice a clear fast start, showing the problem is a "not so weared" battery.

Obviously, you can also go straight and change the battery - but if the case is one of those two, you will waste the remaining life of the other.
 
#7 ·
If the OP is starting the bike "a few times," it's almost certainly not the battery. There is a low voltage threshold in the ECU, below which the starter circuit just won't engage.

You mention this is a 'cold start' issue, and I'm wondering if fuel is the cause. I have a KTM that does this, especially on premium. The reason turns out to be that the bike runs super lean on startup in order to pass the Euro V cold start emissions test. The challenge in keeping it running is generating enough combustion heat to light off the catalyst. Many owners claim the problem goes away if they switch to regular, which is not outlandish. Just a thought.
 
#8 ·
These bikes to not need the highest octane fuel, even the HP engines but especially the HT. Every bike I’ve encountered with this start problem has been running on 98. A simple switch to 95 fixes it in almost every instance . The OP should at least try it before looking for other causes.
 
#10 · (Edited)
My Triumph owners manual for the 2019 Speedmaster says 87 octane so that’s what I use. Also, perhaps allowing the fuel pump(?) to finish its cycle when you first turn on the ignition before cranking it over to start the engine is a thing? I always do that. Battery tender 24/7/365. 99% of the time mine starts on the first try. (The other times it’s probably just me releasing the starter button too early.) As mentioned above, if it’s still within the warranty period let them figure it out? Good luck. 👍 PS -I have no clue if this means anything, but I also make sure never to shut the engine down while the water pump(?) is running. I always wait for it to end its cycle before shutting the engine down. Another habit is making sure the engine gets down to 1050 rpm or less before I begin riding it. Maybe that also helps keep the engine “regular“, so to speak. 🤭 Cheers.
 
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#11 ·
The bike will run fine on high octain fuel......it dont need it put wont stop it starting.

Ok can you tell me why you have your battery on charger 24/7 on a quite new bike.....does the battery go flat maybe?????

And your charger.....is it a correct charger for small motor cycle batteries.....a charger designed for cars will put out to many amps and very much reduce the life time of a bike battery.....as me how I know.

A bike battery needs no more than 1 amp at 12v......a bit less than 1 amp would be kinder to the battery.

So tell me why are you charging it 24/7?????
 
#23 ·
So high octane fuel prevents pre-ignition and subsequent "knocking" in high compression engines, avoiding premature detonation rather than combustion from the plug flame front.

Australian Head of Tech's argument may be that the high octane fuel is preventing the spark plug from igniting the fuel at the right time. At the same time the programming of the ECU is so poor that it does not know to richen the mixture sufficiently during a cold start.

I would have thought that if premium fuel were the cause of poor starts, then something else is wrong, such as a weak ignition system.

Apparently ethanol is an octane booster - and that would allow manufacture of lower quality fuel with less carbon content.

I'm with Nick on this one, though there is no harm in trying low octane fuel recommended by the manufacturer to see if it helps.

Changing the subject a bit, I always run premium diesel in my automobile because the extra detergent additives prevent carbon build-up in the exhaust system. Gasoline is not nearly so messy.
 
#25 · (Edited)
So high octane fuel prevents pre-ignition and subsequent "knocking" in high compression engines, avoiding premature detonation rather than combustion from the plug flame front.

Australian Head of Tech's argument may be that the high octane fuel is preventing the spark plug from igniting the fuel at the right time. At the same time the programming of the ECU is so poor that it does not know to richen the mixture sufficiently during a cold start.

I would have thought that if premium fuel were the cause of poor starts, then something else is wrong, such as a weak ignition system.

Apparently ethanol is an octane booster - and that would allow manufacture of lower quality fuel with less carbon content.

I'm with Nick on this one, though there is no harm in trying low octane fuel recommended by the manufacturer to see if it helps.

Changing the subject a bit, I always run premium diesel in my automobile because the extra detergent additives prevent carbon build-up in the exhaust system. Gasoline is not nearly so messy.
Where this has been an issue, it's not the fuel itself. An increasing number of new motorcycles have adaptive ECUs and some form of knock sensor. These are needed because bikes have to run so lean to pass Euro V. My KTM, for example, with a 12.7:1 compression ratio actually needs premium and will adapt to run rich on regular. That enriched mixture is 'saved' at shutdown pending the next operating cycle, making cold starts easier.

This Triumph motor doesn't need premium, which is why I've been hedging, but it's not beyond possibility that something similar is at work here. These engines don't have knock sensors, but are still actively managed. It’s worth a try.
 
#24 ·
You’re overthinking it, although you are spot on with this bit.
“there is no harm in trying low octane fuel recommended by the manufacturer to see if it helps”.
That is whole and only point I was making. Unfortunately there’s always a few whose egos won’t allow them to get their head around a practical solution……oh never mind.