Time for a new battery?

 

Is there power on the Green/Red wire of the kill switch (pin#5, harness side of the connector), with the ignition and the kill switch on? If not, is there power on the Green wire to the kill switch (pin#4, harness side of the connector), with ignition on?

When you say there is nothing on the clocks, do you mean no MIL or low fuel light? Do you have instrument lighting?

 

The battery is good holds a charge and I have also tried a jump pack on it as well.
There is power to the kill switch and it switches as it should when you operate it. I have LED display in the speedo and both clocks are dead so no needle sweep and no lights at all

 

Your bike is the first 2010 model I've come across with the VDO clocks, they didn't appear generally until mid 2011 in the UK.

So let me get this straight in my mind - you have a model with electronic speedo, and there no lights when the ignition is turned on. Does this include oil/neautral lights and clock back lighting?

It sounds to me, assuming that the answer to my above questions is no, that the ECU is not being powered up. I take it that there is also no whirring noise from the fuel pump?

Simple and obvious things first.. Check fuses 5 and 6. I know that you have already checked them but these blade fuses can fool you with a visual inspection. Use a meter or continuity tester. I suspect that they will be okay though.

Check with a meter for voltage at pin#3 of the alarm connector. This pin feeds the ignition power back out via the dummy plug to power the ECU and clocks.

Now the biggie - and I suspect this is what is happening - the later models with VDO clocks were prone to breakages inside the wiring harness, just where the harness passes the steering head. There are about 4 large crimped joints in there, each one joining 3 or 4 wires to one. Water ingress, corrosion and the action of the steering head breaks them and the lights go out. This may also explain your earlier spells of stuttering that you mentioned.

Unfortunately the only way of fixing this, apart from a new harness, is to unwrap the harness and redo the joints. They consist of a small brass collar crimped over bare wire ends then taped. I would suggest that instead of simply re-crimping, you cut the wires back so that there is a gap past the steering head, then insert lengths of wire past the head. This will introduce extra joints, but move them away from the point of flex. Crimp on new collars (or the old if they are re-usable) then drop on some solder and cover with heat shrink tubing. Finally, rewrap the harness (with proper harness tape, available cheaply from fleabay). Seal the ends of the rewrapped section with heatshrink tubing to hold the harness tape in place.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you go.

 

Check your 12volt flow

check the voltages at the shown points to define where the problem stems from. see attached pic.


:|

 

Did you load test the battery? It could show 12v but be shot internally.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions. Interesting about the crimp connections in the loom by the headstock as I had an issue with a broken wire about 4 years ago which affected the indicators so I think that will be an area I look at closely. The fuses were all tested with a meter so i know they atedefinately ok. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Yes, please give us feedback on this - there are two other current threads on here which I'm convinced have much the same problem. So your findings on the wiring harness will be invaluable.

 

Ok so there was a break in one of the crimp connections on the green / red wires which I have now repaired. I've also checked the others which seem fine. I now have the power on sequence with the clocks live and the needles sweeping. The fuel pump come on but the starter does not operate from the button. However if I activate the starter solenoid the bike turns over but makes no attempt to fire. So I'm guessing I need to check the clutch lever and side stand circuits?

 

Clutch and side stand switches seem to be working as they should. Bit of a loss where to look next ?

 

No need for any of that, just charge your battery. The ECU has a low battery voltage threshold (its not that low actually, only a few tenths of a volt below full charge). If the battery voltage falls below this threshold the ECU will deny the ground connection to the starter relay. Even the headlamp being on before starting the bike can send the battery voltage down enough to trip the threshold.

There are a couple of fixes, one entails drilling a hole in the starter relay cover and putting a button in there, so you can manually force the relay contacts together.

The other is to disconnect the starter relay ground wire from the ECU and replace it with a length of wire connected directly to ground. Downside of that is, you lose the clutch safety intelock. However there is a diagram on here somewhere (and a thread), showing how to wire in a diode to get the cutch safety interlock back.

Personally I prefer to employ different methods of conserving battery power, such as low power LED lighting and a MOSFET regulator/rectifier for more efficient charging, among other little things.

Glad I was able to help and thanks for the feedback.

 

I don't think the exam relay is switching can't hear it or feel a click. Swapped that with the fuel pump relay as they are identical but still nothing although either relay operates when it is in the fuel pump location

 

The ECM relay, the one under the seat, doesn't turn off when you turn the ignition off. It's controlled by a latching circuit within the ECU that maintains it in the ON on state for one minute. Some earlier models took 20 minutes for the latching circuit to let go.

I imagine that's why you can't hear it or feel the click if you're just turning the ignition key on and off, the relay is staying on for that period.

 

If the battery voltage is too low the ECU won't allow cranking, there's also a low volts interlock. Check voltage across batery terminals first with ignition off and then with it on. If less than about 12.4 volts it needs charging or replacing.

Is the starter relay doing its thing? when you press the start button the headlight should go out. The relay diverts headlamp power to the starter solenoid operating coil.

Bypass the relay temporarily by removing it from its socket and bridging terminals 86 and 87 with a piece of wire. The terminal numbers are embossed on the underside of the relay.

 

Sorry for that last post Forchetto - I didn't mean 'no need for any' of what you posted. I was still typing when you posted.

 

I only have an old analogue meter so can't measure the voltage accurately but I'm pretty sure the battery is fully charged. However I have tried giving it a jump start from my car and still nothing when you hit the starter button lights don't dim just does nothing?

 

If I bypass the starter relay by shorting the links it turns over but does not fire

 

There seems to be a strange and frankly rare accumulation of different faults.

We've had the break in the green/red wires at the harness splices.

The fact that the engine cranks from the starter button with the starter relay bypassed points to either a faulty relay or a battery in low state of charge.

Even with a jump start from the car it cranks but still doesn't fire so the battery voltage thing can be disregarded. The relay must also be faulty. A replacement can be obtained at any auto store, it's a very common automotive relay and costs very little.

Have you checked to see that there's a spark at the plugs?

 

This morning I replaced the starter relay and the issue is the same. Clearly something is affecting the circuits before it gets to the starter relay.

 

I thought I would try hooking up the Tune ECU software no that I had power and see what it came up with. So I can connect to the ECU OK but there is an error code which I cant clear P1685 EMS main relay circuit malfunction. Not sure what that means but I guess it gives me a clue as to where the issue lies.

 

This is the ECM relay (also known as the EMS or Engine Management System relay). It is the one that you swapped with the fuel pump relay. It powers the fuel injectors (inside the throttle bodies), SAI solenoid and on California models, the EVAP purge valve.

Your only choice here is to replace the relay. It is directly wired to the ECU, except for the power feed which comes directly from fuse#5, so check that fuse first.

You could try swapping the relays again and see if this time the relay works in the fuel pump position. Even if it doesn't, you should then have a good relay in the EMS position so should be able to clear the DTC.

 

I have now replaced the end relay with a new one but it is still the same. I still have the error code that will not clear. I can't help thinking there must be another wiring issue somewhere

 

See what voltages you have at the different wires:

Battery + volts at the white wire that's coming from fuse 5 (check that if you don't have volts there)

Check ground continuity of the black wire, it should go to battery negative or chasis ground.

Battery voltage at the Yellow/grey wire. This voltage comes from the ECU pin B15. This is the wire from the timed latching circuit I've mentioned in post 16 so even if the ignition is turned off there'll be voltage there for one minute.

If the relay is energised and its contacts closed you should also see battery volts at the brown/pink wires.

 

Thanks Forchetto I'll investigate and report back

 

So I have measured the voltages on the edge relay
White 12.19v
Yellow grey 0.02v

 

Forgot to say black has continuity to ground

 

Ok so what I have done is put 12v directly from the battery to the yellow grey wire on the edge relay and the bike starts and runs until I remove the 12v feed from the yellow / grey wire

 

The ECU has to sense battery voltage at terminal A19 (wire colour green/red) when ignition turned on. Is that OK? Once again, for the 3rd time this week, trouble seems to flare up at the green/red wires which happen to be associated with those poor crimps that keep breaking within the wiring harness, see post 52 here for details and photo of the junction:

http://www.triumphrat.net/air-coole...-talk/708762-please-help-2014-thruxton-dies-dead-after-45-mins-of-riding-6.html

ECU Connector layout:

 

Also with the direct 12v feed in place I can clear the error code using tunecu but as soon as I remove the feed and the bike does the error code reappears

 

You should have 12v on pin A19 of the ECU. If you don't have that, go back to the start of this thread and start again with those Green/Red wires. Bear in mind that they also run through the ignition switch, kill switch and alarm connector.

If you have voltage at pin 3 or 4 of alarm connector, the break is between the alarm connector and ECU. The fuel pump relay also splices in, so check for voltage on the Green/Red of fuel pump relay. That should narrow the search down for the break.

 

Thanks Forchetto there is no voltage on pin A19 so I can safely assume I still have a break in one of the green / red wires somewhere. I'll strip the loom back further to investigate.
Thanks to everyone for their help