Great score though! Good luck, hope it works out for u!…FTG

 

Have you run the VIN number yet? That should tell you something. Try vehiclehistory.gov.

 

No information is available. As I understand it, the bike was parked thirty years ago after its owner died.

 

That’s a nice find, should make for a good project. I never thought I’d be interested in a white bike, but I’ve seen a few lately and they look great.
Good luck

 

Hi Bob,

has been parked in a garage/shed/barn for the past thirty years.
The first order of business is that of getting the motor running.

After thirty-odd years unused, it's unlikely there's any oil between parts that absolutely need oil between them when spinning at several thousand rpm; before attempting to start the engine, please read Waking The Sleeping Beast.

Only thing to do differently is put a little less oil in the crankcase than WTSB recommends - it was written for triple owners, and triples have larger crankcases; twin in the US, maybe a pint to pint-and-a-half; risking stating the obvious, subtract whatever quantity you put in the engine from the total engine oil quantity recommended for a T140E.

Luck.

Regards,

 

Hi Bob,




After thirty-odd years unused, it's unlikely there's any oil between parts that absolutely need oil between them when spinning at several thousand rpm; before attempting to start the engine, please read Waking The Sleeping Beast.

Only thing to do differently is put a little less oil in the crankcase than WTSB recommends - it was written for triple owners, and triples have larger crankcases; twin in the US, maybe a pint to pint-and-a-half; risking stating the obvious, subtract whatever quantity you put in the engine from the total engine oil quantity recommended for a T140E.

Luck.

Regards,

It's likely that almost all of the oil in already in the case, so drain the oil from the case, the tank/frame, and the gearbox. Refill and prime the case with a cup of oil or so fed in through the rocker box access covers, squirt it all over the rockers and springs, it will drain down to the case through the holes in the tappet blocks.

 

I just checked compression. I think that someone put oil into the cylinders when it was parked; both plugs were loose. 100 psi in each cylinder. I expect that those numbers will improve after I go through the valves and seats.

 

It would likely come up just by running for a while. But starting this with a crankshaft full of grit and goo is a risky, risky operation.

 

@StuartMac: Thanks for the link. I'm going to thoroughly clean the oil tank (frame) by pulling the sump plate. I don't expect it to be pretty.

 

Missouri Bob, this one looks like it has good bones, and should be a worthwhile project. Best of luck with it!
-Dave

 

dont try to start it until youve had a moment to think it through.

there is no oil anywhere in the motor that needs it after this time.

 

Interesting machine... believe you have a 78 BITSA there.

Looked at the engine D/S picture. I am reading the number is 03317. If that's correct it should have a December engine build with a complete VIN XX03317. That machine was recorded as being a T140V. I can't read the T140 stamped area that well but, to me, looks to be stamped T140V with a S or 5 stamped over the 0. I'm going to assume that the frame carries the same number as the engine.

The head is either from a T140D or E. Note the exhaust pipes not push-in. If the exhaust ports are threaded it's from a "D", 81/82 "E", or someone had a 78-80 "E" threaded. Of course it could have the slide in plugs we used to sell. I would be interested in knowing as there weren't that many 81/82 heads floating around. Also wondering about the pipes. The airbox assembly is correct for the head.

Rear fender and lift handle appear to be 79 up "E". Tank badges are the unpainted style introduced in 79 model year. Seat is 73-77 style.

Ignition switch, gauges, front end, wheel, switch gear, rider footpeg rubber all look to be 78 style.

Best of luck to you on your project.

K

 

@Missouri Bob

Re your pm again apologies for misreading your VIN. From the information you supplied you do have a 78 T140E.

The pictures show a 1979 model year lift handle. From memory these will not attach to a 78 rear fender without "adjustments" to the attachment holes.

I'm still wondering about the header pipes. They appear to be correctly shaped for a 750 OIF frame but without a crossover.

If your machine still has the headlight on diode anything you could post regarding connections would be appreciated. There have been many questions on multiple Forums over the years on that.

Have a great day

K

 

@Missouri Bob

The pictures show a 1979 model year lift handle. From memory these will not attach to a 78 rear fender without "adjustments" to the attachment holes.

I wondered why the lift handle was attached this way.

 

My buddy, Charles, called me yesterday morning to ask if I was interested in "an old Triumph motorcycle". He didn't have to ask twice.
...

It's a T140E. I'm happy that the shift lever is on the left side; don't know how well I could adapt at this point in my life.

View attachment 830967

That is a GREAT find! It will make for an excellent "before and after" composite photo.

You've already got all the best / important info needed to get it to a running point where it can be test ridden moderately for an analysis of the rolling chassis' condition.

Have fun!
(and start a new thread in the Member's Projects section, with PLENTY of photos)

 

I didn't see anything that I would describe as a diode.

 

Looks like someone has been making things better. Both at the lift handle and the headlamp.

Don't believe your lighting switch is even connected. Looking at the picture there is a blue white wire going into a four plug connector. Behind there what appears to be a rectangular bit(maybe in a bit or shrink) in front of a greyish connector. What is the rectangular bit?

If you are not sure what the diode looks like Google Lucas 83225 diode.

K

 

Looks like someone has been making things better. Both at the lift handle and the headlamp.

Yeah, "better".

A different angle shows that there are some wires connected to the headlamp switch.

The rectangular bit is a connector that was wrapped in electrician's tape. I removed the tape. Still no diode.

 

Diode? Not in the headlamp area. If you mean the Zener Diode then it was mounted in a finned heatsink under the headlight and easily accessible and visible till around 1976/7 [somebody will correct me on this], after this it was mounted on the alloy for the air intake box, a single unit till around 1980's then a 3 pack after this.
Yours will be mounted on the airbox alloy.

 

I believe there was a requirement passed in the US that required motorcycle headlights on with the ignition on effective vechile build date 1/01/78. By coincidence that was the same date for increased emission requirements for vehicles built on or after 1/01/78. In the US the T140V and TR7 models were no longer in compliance. Therefore the T140E (E=emissions) was developed with the new head, MKII carbs, revised crankcase ventilation etc.

The EPA approval for this model was, only received in December 1977. Once the approval was received Triumph needed to acquire the necessary parts to assemble the new model. Without the T140E no new machines built after 01/01/78 could be sold in the States. The first T140E was BX04570 this also would have been the first machine fitted with the lights on diode assembly and a different lighting switch.

This part would have only been on 1978 Model Year T140E model. It is shown in the 1978 T140E parts book supplement #TMA-9. Should you be interested it's on many online sites. An example is at www.classicbike.biz it is shown at the end of the 1978 parts book. Unfortunately I have never seen a wiring diagram showing the assembly installed. I assume getting the updated wiring diagram into the owner and workshop manuals was an oversight. All 1978 models used the same wiring harness.

I hope this clarifies the diode question.

K

 

Hi,

Diode? Not in the headlamp area.

It's a '78 T140E, US only. The parts book Supplement prepared by the US Triumph importer at the time lists an assembly consisting of a couple of bits of White wire, spade terminals and the aforementioned Lucas 83225 diode in between; the Supplement says the assembly was "to provide lights on with the ignition switch". However, neither the Co-op nor the importer did a wiring diagram to show where this assembly fitted ...

I've never seen the assembly fitted to a US-market T140E; Meriden fitted a different 3-position lighting switch to those bikes, connected the switch differently to the ignition switch from '78 T140V and TR7RV, the "lights on with the ignition switch" works without the assembly. Mitch Klempf has photos. of the assembly components on his website, @KADUTZ posted he'd seen 'em in a parts bin when he worked in a dealer at the time, both @KADUTZ and I are curious if any '78 T140E turns up with the assembly actually fitted and connected.

Zener Diode

... was mounted on an airbox on all OIF, only in the heatsink under the headlamp on dry-frames so the last of the latter were T160's.

Yours will be mounted on the airbox alloy

... unless @Missouri Bob finds a PO replaced rectifier 'n' Zener with a reg./rec.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Nice find!
Sort out the title before you start spending.

 

Sort out the title before you start spending.

THIS!!!

 

Dang. My oldest (2005) Excel spreadsheet in my backups doesn't show my '78 Bonnie 750, or I'd be able to see the serial number from it... The older ones are on ZIP 100MB floppies and I no longer have a working drive...

 

@KADUTZ : The wiring is a bit of a mess. Fortunately, it appears to be relatively simple. I need to sort through the harness to see what is missing before I can test the EI module. I would much prefer points and condensers.

 

Something else to look for at swap meets....

K

 

Hi Bob,

The wiring is a bit of a mess. Fortunately, it appears to be relatively simple. I need to sort through the harness to see what is missing before I can test the EI module.

Your starting point for comparison should be the Triumph '73-'78 750 twin Workshop Manual wiring diagram on .pdf page 191.

Reason I say "starting point" is that's actually the ('76-)'78 T140V and TR7RV diagram; as posted earlier, there isn't an original '78 T140E diagram. Nevertheless, the ignition circuit wiring should be (was originally) exactly the same on your bike ... post if you want be to detail the ignition circuit in the diagram.

... 'til you get to the White/Yellow ("WY") wire from the "ENGINE STOP" to the coils' negative terminals ... if your bike has an EI, White/Yellow won't (shouldn't) be connected to either of the coils, rather it should be connected to the EI module input wire. If you post a photo of the actual EI module on the bike, I can advise what EI wires should be connected where.

Be sure this has nothing whatsoever to do with the lighting wiring or speculation about what PO might or might not have changed.

would much prefer points and condensers.

Ime, you wouldn't - Britbike owners have been converting to EI for decades, many spares generally aren't great quality anyway, when suppliers are supplying into a shrinking market, they're even less likely to make an effort over quality; EI's fit-and-forget and all have a better advance curve than the best original Lucas auto-advance units ever had.

You have a private "Conversation" too.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Boyer Bransden ignition module. The WY wire from the harness connects to the EI's W wire. It appears that the EI's R wire is grounded, and its B wire provides power to the coils (in series). BY from module to BY in harness. BW from module to BW in harness.

The zener diode and the rectifier are wired correctly. Adjacent to each coil is a small cylindrical component resembling a condenser. One has WY wires connected to it. The other has nothing connected. Would there still be a condenser without breaker points?

 

Hi Bob,

Boyer Bransden ignition module. The WY wire from the harness connects to the EI's W wire.
its B wire provides power to the coils (in series).

As the coils are in series, they should be '6V'; however, some owners just connect the original '12V' coils in series, because Bransden (the actual maker of "Boyers") said they could. In reality, two '12V' coils connected in series is mostly less reliable ime.

If the coils are 'original Lucas', they'll lave either "17M6" or "17M12" stamped on the ends opposite the terminals. If you want to check, first wiggle 'em side-to-side in the rubber rings to break the stiction then I smear cheap spray-on furniture polish on 'em to lubricate 'em through the rings.

appears that the EI's R wire is grounded

This might work. However, as you probably know, as the ignition circuits (through the module and coils) are from battery -ve to battery +ve; the harness has a network of 'ground' (Red) wires and insulated connections to battery +ve, using random bits of bike and uninsulated connections to them is crazy, not long-term reliable ime.

I connect the module Red wire directly to the battery +ve terminal, the coil series +ve either to harness Red wires or directly to the battery +ve terminal.

BY from module to BY in harness. BW from module to BW in harness.

BY and BW in the harness originally connected the coils' +ve terminals to the points and condensers, so most EI makers use them to connect the EI module to the trigger unit in the original points/AAU cavity in the engine timing cover. Generally reliable but, if the harness looks past its best, look hard at the BY and BW wires in the harness and the connections at each end, consider replacement, the signals from the trigger unit are low Volts and Amps, they need the best connections possible.

At some point in the future, I advise adding a low-Amps fuse to the ignition circuit; reason is Bransden advises current through the EI module shouldn't ever exceed 5A, the original fuse near battery -ve is 17.5A continuous ... Fwiw, I fit a 5A automotive blade fuse and holder where the WY connects to the EI module W wire.

View attachment 831208
Adjacent to each coil is a small cylindrical component resembling a condenser. One has WY wires connected to it. The other has nothing connected. Would there still be a condenser without breaker points?

In your photo., if you mean the small cylindrical component with a male spade terminal, beside the coil spade terminal with the Black wire on the upper coil, that's a condenser, the lower coil should have one beside it too.

EI, condensers should not be connected to anything.

Points, there was originally a WY wire connected to each coil's -ve terminal. Only one WY terminal was required to connect to the EI module White wire; failing a direct instruction, the EI 'fitter' obviously thought the other WY should be connected to something ...

Standard harness, fwiw I usually leave the unused WY spade terminal, just tape it up securely. Reason is, if you have to troubleshoot the ignition circuit, it's useful to have a 'hot' terminal that can be connected to the coils series bypassing the EI module.

zener diode and the rectifier are wired correctly.

Long-term, if you decide to keep rectifier and Zener, while they're generally reliable, be aware particularly the Zener has a poor 'ground' path - from the airbox to the battery carrier then though an edge to a washer with a bunch of Red wires soldered to it. Consider drilling another small (3/16" ID) hole beside the Zener, bolting a ring terminal with a Red wire there, connecting the Red wire to existing harness Red wires.

Aside, up to '71, Lucas gradually evolved motorcycle wiring to be pretty reliable. Then, for some reason, just the new OIF harness implementation regressed several years in evolved reliability, the contemporary 'dry frame' harnesses continued to be better.

Hth.

Regards,

 

If the coils are 'original Lucas', they'll lave either "17M6" or "17M12" stamped on the ends opposite the terminals.

They're "17M6", which I assume means 6 volt coils.

 

@StuartMac : Thanks. That's exactly the information I needed.

 

Plan on a lot of new parts for the brakes. A vintage Brit bike will have issues with the "sludge trap" in the crankshaft possibly being jammed full of crud. Once you start sending warm oil through the system, it's not uncommon to have it seize the rods to the crank, and if that happens at speed, you can end the project right there with a hole in the crankcase, a broken rod, and the cylinder skirt blasted off. So, you might want to plan for a complete engine strip-down, too.

 

Hi,

prime the case with a cup of oil or so

Uh-uh; as you quoted:-

read Waking The Sleeping Beast.

Only thing to do differently is put a little less oil in the crankcase than WTSB recommends - it was written for triple owners, and triples have larger crankcases; twin in the US, maybe a pint to pint-and-a-half;

... a "cup of oil or so" is not a high-enough level in the crankcase to be picked up by the spinning crankshaft to splash-lubricate the bearings that need it.

A vintage Brit bike will have issues with the "sludge trap" in the crankshaft possibly being jammed full of crud.

A high-mileage vintage Brit bike might have issues with the "sludge trap" in the crankshaft possibly being jammed full of crud ... a low-mileage engine shouldn't have problems as the sludge trap doesn't fill up rapidly in early mileage.

Unless I've missed it, @Missouri Bob hasn't posted the bike's mileage?

Once you start sending warm oil through the system, it's not uncommon to have it seize the rods to the crank

The position of the sludge trap in the crank says it's a centrifugal filter. Unless the trap is very full, "warm oil through" it says the crank is spinning, keeps any trapped debris in the trap, filters any new debris.

Hth.

Regards,

 

Unless I've missed it, @Missouri Bob hasn't posted the bike's mileage?

The odometer shows just under 7,000 miles. Although I would like to believe that is accurate, neither tire (tyre) looks to be original.