If T-US has denied warranty coverage it will be REALLY difficult to change their mind especially if the authorized dealer won't go to bat for you.

Send a detailed email with pics to T-UK at after.sales@triumph.co.uk

 

In the US, warranties can't legally require that you use "their" service department unless those services are offered free of charge per the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. I would ask your dealer if they have some evidence that the other dealer did faulty work. I find it highly unusual that a valve could be out of spec enough at 15k to grenade the motor.

Did the other dealer document that valves were inspected but not adjusted? Is it possible that they did something incorrectly?

Did your motor sound or behave poorly prior? Valve checks are pretty simple for a trained mechanic, but that doesn't necessarily mean mistakes can't be made.

 

Yes, in my argument I referenced the Magnussun Warranty Act when they initially denied the warranty. They have stated "Based on the information provided by your dealer, this was deemed not warrantable by our technical department due to the lack of or improper maintenance of the valve inspection/adjustment performed during your 12,000 mile interval service which resulted in the valves coming in contact with the piston"

The Mechanic noted valves were inspected but adjustment was not needed because they were in spec.

My motor was running fine! The valves were checked by the Master Technician himself, who is certified through Ducati/MV Augusta.

 

That of US Moss Warranty Act sounds pretty nice, but the truth is the only way you have to proof "nothing strange was made" is servicing made at authorized workshops.

It makes full sense you to be able to claim warranty over an untouched piece like lets say the crank or whatever.

I understand you can freely decide to contract others to make a valve clearance process.

But if later than that something fails in valves I understand Triumph to freely decide they have no security the fail is not originated by something related to a bad action in that process.

And I am sure you can't be either sure. Doubt you were pressent during all the workshop process to be able to say "no, no... I watched and everything was fine, no mistakes, no missed parts, not any distraction".

What it guarantees doing those mainteinances at dealer is not "everything will be done perfect", but "if something fails, it would not mind being origin or caused... triumph will be responsible either way".

I understand the northamerican idea of "pure liberty" to bring a bike under warranty to an open workshop for simple unharm operations like oil changes, chain mainteinances, electric small issues and similar.

But bringing a warranty bike to another place for actions including opening engine covers? well, this can be the consecuences.

Try what you want, but I am almost sure there is no way you can legally proof nothing in that 12K check was made perfect. And if you can't proof... you can't force them to accept the repair.

 

Try what you want, but I am almost sure there is no way you can legally proof nothing in that 12K check was made perfect. And if you can't proof... you can't force them to accept the repair.

In the US of A it's just the opposite. It's not your burden to prove the work was done perfectly. It's Triumph's job to prove they have a legitimate reason to not honor their warranty. Perhaps the dealer is not behaving that way, or perhaps they have found a legitimate reason...but that's how it works.

I have been through this myself, and would up filing a lemon law claim...and won.

 

Small claims court.

 

thats what the lawyer suggested I do after writing them a former letter under the DTPA. Who would be the defendant? the dealer or the manufacturer?

 

buy a used engine off ebay before spending $16,000.

 

Heck, buy a new Street Triple RS for less than $16K.

 

Is it the current model or the previous gen? If it's the current (smaller tank, cornering ABS) there was a recall on valve collets that could potentially lead to valve drop, maybe it's some hint?

 

Previous gen. 2022-2023 Located in Texas, USA

 

Being the job made by the master technician does not mean much at all. Everyone can make mistakes.

Let me ask you: why you did not bring the bike to that same place?

 

I initially brought the bike to him. After inspecting the bike he suggested this might be a bigger problem and since (I called the dealer to make sure the bike is under warranty) the bike is still under warranty I should go through them.

 

Triumph won't care if the mechanic is a certified Duc/MV mechanic. Nothing special about your valve train, any qualified tech could perform the proper inspection, but I'd wager that Triumph doesn't see it that way. Good luck. I think the amount of damage and estimate cost is out of the range of small claims court, but I'm no expert.

 

Did they disassemble the engine at all to find a cause? One point of failure could be the cam sprockets, they are adjustable and held on by two screws. If the screws were to come loose it would throw the timing off and cause major damage. On 675 era engines these screws had loctite on them, but they don't anymore. Resetting the cam timing is part of the 12k service even if the valve clearances are in spec, and it must be done with special tools.

 

Did they disassemble the engine at all to find a cause? One point of failure could be the cam sprockets, they are adjustable and held on by two screws. If the screws were to come loose it would throw the timing off and cause major damage. On 675 era engines these screws had loctite on them, but they don't anymore. Resetting the cam timing is part of the 12k service even if the valve clearances are in spec, and it must be done with special tools.

I see that detail very remarkable

@QE_j27 have you considered the chances this break down to really be the result of bad action during the maintenance and not a manufacturing fault? Why are you sure it is the second and not the first case?

The mechanic being Ducati/MV certified does not mean much at all. Not meaning "legally", but ducati engines being totally different to Triumph and thus an expert in Ducati is a newbie in triumph triples. They refusing to check the engine and directly saying "oh no, better bring it to dealer" looks like not being very trustworthy.

Even expecting a warranty to be covered the best position would have been doing a full diagnosis and finding a cause traceable to a true manufacture defect.

I understand the most convenient position for you is to get it repaired by warranty, but demanding that makes sense only if a problem covered by that undoubtedly generates it.

Again I am not an expert, but have been reading some points in that Magnusson Moss Warranty Act about the manufacturer dues to cover the legal expenses of the demanded. But that is... if your demanding is accepted. If they are able to confirm the cause is a bad maintenance I guess you will not simply not get your engine repaired, but also have lost money and time in the process...

 

Lesson learned, underwarranty, bring to dealer for service until the warranty expires. If something happens, it's on them unless they can prove the owner did something.

 

I would say it all depends on what service. I am sure oil changing, chain and sprockets management, front fork or brakes, mounting of new elements like exhausts, electronic devices, etc... are operations that truly require no special tools or knowledge and can be managed with no harm by any workshop.

And no way a failure in chain tensioning or brake pad mounting can cause a very expensive problem in the bike engine.

But maintenance operations needing to open engine covers... that's something to always safer to be made in dealers during warranty period. And some operations or models even after warranty ends unless you are sure you have a workshop with experience in Triumph units, not simply "being good".

 

I'm rather cynical. Even doing an oil change by yourself keeping receipts and all would probably be used against you if something major happened soon after which probably is totally unrelated to the oil change. How many people read the fine print in warranties or trust that the dealer or factory to stand by them in case of a major issue. I've only purchased two new motorcyles, brought the bike in for the first service and never saw the dealer again. I didn't have any issues with the bike during the warranty period. That was years ago, so I'm not sure that I would do the same now.

 

Decades ago is was the dealer who determined whether a repair was under warranty or not.

Now days it seems that the value of the warranty is dependent on whether your dealer will go to bat for you with the manufacturer because manufacturers are dead set on not standing behind their warranty when ever they can.

With real estate it's location... location... location. With motorcycles it's dealer... dealer... dealer.

 

Points well taken, but my point wasn't that an oil change or brake service would cause an engine failure or such, but that manufacturers look for any reason to give grief to an owner when they can. A good dealer on the other hand would go to bat for you, but in the OP's situation, I think going to a shop that is not a Triumph dealer for the engine work under warranty is a big gamble. I personally don't take my bikes to a dealer for any service, but I can see for others, using a shop's service is necessary. I feel for the OP, however.

 

If the OP's Triumph dealer was the selling dealer (or not) it is to their advantage to go to bat for the customer, unless they see definitive reasons not to, in order to keep that customer and maybe sell them another bike down the road.

Not standing up for the customer guarantees they will never buy another of that brand and with a few mouse clicks can tell untold numbers of riders and future customers that this dealer and manufacturer screwed him/her.

 

That makes no sense. Even if damage would be considered manufacture origin Triumph brand would be only coverimg parts cost. Dealer should spend the labour by their own expense (the customer not paying does not mean the mechanic is not going to be payed).

But being the fail not accepted by Triumph as a defect, the dealer should have to pay the parts too.

Even considering the cost being 50% of the quote that would mean invest $8000. And they do not earn as much as that percentage.

How many bikes should they expect to sell to recover that? Even the customer promising to come later and buy a rocket 3 would be a waste.

If we were speaking about losing the cost of a turn light, a tire or a chain kit it could make sense. But a full engine restoration?? No logic.

 

For what it's worth, I have a 2010 Tacoma Pickup truck bought used at a dealer in 2013. Three years later (several years out of warranty) Toyota replaced the whole frame at no cost to me (and many other Tacoma owners as well) because the steel they used in the frame was very poor steel and it rusted out much faster than it should've. I was shocked when I found out I would not have to pay one penny. They replaced the frame, brake lines, fuel lines, some of the wiring and other assorted and sundry parts.

 

And FWIW... I had a 1994 Toyota 4x4 pickup and 10 years later I received a letter in the mail telling me that Toyota wanted to replace the head gaskets in my 3L V6 engine at no charge and that if I had paid to replace the head gaskets previously Toyota would refund what I paid for that job.

I've been driving Toyota trucks since 1980... wonder why?

 

i think you should get a used engine to put in so you can use the bike, and have a new mechanic video the disassembly of damaged engine to try to identify root cause. Have video show oil level, if cam timing slipped at adjustment screws, tensioner functioning, measure other valve clearances. If only that one intake valve was the problem then did it drop due to stem broke or retainer or keepers failure or spring failure? Take the head off after video and inspection to see if there is anything there like a random bolt. If you can determine it was the Ducati mechanics fault go after him. If it is a defective part go after Triumph. The video evidence will be key. Sorry this happened and you are stuck proving who is at fault. As mentioned by others, attempting to deny warranty claims is standard practice now days sadly. I let the dealer do an expensive oil change of my break in oil, then i did it myself with OE filter after 4k miles, then i let same dealer do it at 4k more miles so it shows that it has good service records. I have done plenty of valve adjustments over the years but i may have to spend big money to let the dealer do my 1200RR because i bought extended warranty and i dont want to be in your predicament. Good luck

 

I read the initial couple of posts, but what struck me is that there is no explanation for the valves hitting the pistons. That does not just happen, and certainly not for valves being left alone! So there is another cause, and that has to be found. It has either been over revved seriously, it has jumped on the cam chain, a valve collar has given in or perhaps a valve has got stuck in a guide for some reason.
I think the first issue is to get the engine looked at in detail.
Just my two cents for what it is worth.

 

Does the warranty state where you have to get the bike serviced?

 

I don't know if it helps, but in some models there was a factory directive for trouble. Service Bulletin 613 - Valve Retainer Replacement

 

Regardless of the relationship with your dealer it seems now days that the manufacturer's initial position is that the owner is guilty until he/she can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are innocent.

 

Really any warranty or guarantee is like that, though. Just that the stakes and costs are higher with something like a car/motorcycle.

Devils advocate here, but do you blame them? Spend any time on a forum, Facebook group, whatever and see what people do in the name of cool, performance, I know better than engineering or just plain stupidity. Odds are the owner is at least partially to blame for a number of issues they encounter and many people are looking for a buy back or free something. I’d be skeptical as well.

 

Why i only take my car or bike to the dealer for all maintenance.. So there is no warranty guessing, even if that will cost me more upfront.. Less headaches later on within my warranty is well worth the extra cash. Once out of warranty, then I will do most maintenance.

 

you are a good humble servant to your corporate overlords.

Denying warranty claims because you didn't pay for their premium service charge is illegal.

 

It also depends a lot on the distance to the dealer!
OK if you are in a densely populated area with a dealer around the corner.
Another issue if there are several hundred miles to the closest shop.

 

It also depends a lot on the distance to the dealer!
OK if you are in a densely populated area with a dealer around the corner.
Another issue if there are several hundred miles to the closest shop.

And that should be one of the important considerations when shopping for an expensive vehicle.

 

I've been lucky too. Wiring harness replaced on an RZ350 when the kill switch stopped working; front MC replaced on an FZ1 and the top end rebuilt when the timing chain tensioner failed, and the chained jumped on a Speed Triple. And a good will replacement of the clutch arm spring on the same Triple (the spring cost nothing but the labor was significant). TBS, the service writer at the Triumph dealer was one of my riding buddies. As was the writer at the Yamaha dealer for the FZ1. That said, 14 of the 30 bikes I've owned were used.