Since I bought my Speedy I've always had a vague notion of putting a 1050 engine into it at some point. I was idly scrolling in a Facebook group recently and came across a deal that I couldn't pass up, £350 for a 2012 engine with an unknown knocking noise. I figured "Why not" and bought it, I'm detailing the rebuild of it separately here.
I'm going to take the opportunity to upgrade where I can and make a bit of a 'parts bin special' to get more performance out of the engine once it's in. Since I've done a lot of research on this, I figured I should put all of it in one place for anybody else who wants to do similar. I'm not claiming it all as my own original research mind! Standing on the shoulders of giants and all... I'm also not claiming any of this is 100% correct either, it's just what I've been able to find out. I'm open to being corrected
Note: I haven't considered parts from anything newer than the 2011-2015 Speed Triple as I figured parts are going to be expensive and too full of electronics to work on my old bike.
My current build plan is to:
In terms of performance mods I plan to:
I will document all of the issues I come across with putting it all together in a bike. To start with, here is everything with regards to parts compatibility that I've gleaned so far
Running a 1050 with a 955 (Sagem) ECU
In terms of getting the engine running, the simplest thing is to use a Keihin ECU from one of the 2005+ bikes and load the appropriate map. I would then have to buy not only the ECU but an instrument cluster and wiring loom to match, then completely rewire the bike. This is potentially expensive and a lot of extra work, and I like the analogue gauge cluster! Retaining the Sagem ECU also means I need to change the alternator rotor, as the notches on the rotor rim are what the Crankshaft Position Sensor reads and the two ECU types need different waveforms. More on that later.
I considered getting a wideband Lambda sensor and trying to tune the bike myself once it was put together. Even after reading into it and trying to understand what all the map tables mean, I'm not confident I could do a good job, and the mapping parameters don't easily correlate between Sagem and Keihin ECUs. Also, a wideband sensor is expensive. I could get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they are doing for that money, so I will.
That said, I did create a 'starter' map for the new engine based on my current map, 10076. I added 10% extra fuel across the board to account for the displacement increase, changed the injector flow (see below) then changed the rev limit and fan kick point to match the standard 2011-2015 maps. I extrapolated the warmup tables from a later map into the older one as well.
The 2011-2015 1050 Engine
This is the engine I ended up buying but it's basically the same as 2005-2010 engines except for the alternator, sprag clutch, one engine mounting point and one coolant bypass port. The latter two are pretty well covered here, I'll cover the alternator differences later. The sprag clutch is just an uprated version so it has no impact on compatibility.
Cooling System
The pre-2002 Speed Triples use an external filler neck and thermostat, so it's a lot of work to retain your existing plumbing and radiator with the new engine. The radiator mounting points under the headstock are the same up until 2011+ bikes with a different frame, so you can use the cooling system from later bikes. Don't be tempted to buy Daytona or Sprint radiators as they don't have the mounting points for indicators.
After 2002 the cooling system layout is basically the same until at least 2015, with the exception of the location of the expansion bottle. Initially the expansion bottle is the same as pre-2002 bikes, then changes location and shape several times over the 1050 models. You might as well retain the existing one as they all do the same job. I believe radiator fans use the same connector across the years so whichever radiator you choose, the fan plugs straight in.
Your choice of oil cooler limits your choice of radiators as well. You can't use the off-centreline oil cooler from a 2002-2004 Speed Triple as it has banjo fittings instead of the SAE fittings used on later engines. Since 955 oil coolers mount partly to the radiator, the 2002-2004 radiator has the wrong brackets so you can't use that either. Therefore, you have a choice between the larger oil cooler fitted to 2002-2006 Daytonas and the initial 1050 Speed Triples (T2100716), or the smaller oil cooler fitted to pretty much all 1050 bikes after that (T2100756). You need to get the right oil lines and mounting brackets depending on which you choose. I went for the larger oil cooler as bigger is better, right?
Personally, I think the best option is to retain your coolant expansion bottle under the seat and use a 2005-2010 radiator. The radiator mounts are the same and the plumbing is broadly the same as for the 2011+ engine, with the exception of a bypass hose from the head to the radiator which isn't present on 2011+ engines. You can just plug the port on the radiator as shown in Houlster's thread I referenced earlier.
I will be getting Samco hoses so for my planned cooling system I will need a proper hodgepodge of hoses:
Exhaust Headers
You can't use pre-2002 headers with post-2002 engines, the exhaust ports are a different shape and different gaskets are used. Additionally, post-2002 headers have a mounting point to the frame below the engine. It appears this mounting point was included in the frame castings from around 2000 onwards but not drilled to take a bolt, so it can be made to take later exhausts for the later engines.
I don't believe the headers from 2011-2015 bikes will fit in pre-2011 frames as the engine is at a different angle in the frame and the aforementioned lower mounting point is unlikely to be in the right place.
I initially considered using 2005-2010 headers as they were designed for the 1050 engine and will have the best choice of slipons etc. I found that they changed in 2007 so you will get 2005-2007 headers or 2007-2010 headers. The earlier headers have no lambda sensor boss as this was in the mid-pipe, and unless you are in Australia they will include a pre-catalytic converter in the end section of the header (best to remove for performance!). Post 2007 headers have a lambda sensor boss in the side of the collector and again include a pre-cat.
Brittrip pointed out 2002-2006 Daytona headers are a much better choice. They use the same mounting points and gaskets as all the other post-2002 headers, have a larger bore all the way through, a better collector design, and do not have any catalytic converters. I also found them to be much cheaper than 1050 headers on ebay, winner!
The downsides are they significantly reduce the choice of slipons that are available, and they put the outlet further back and higher up on the bike. Worthy of note is the fact the balance pipe on these headers sticks out so it may interfere with the oil cooler lines. This is purely speculation on my part, but I'm going to use Daytona oil cooler lines to be on the safe side.
I didn't consider the 2002-2004 Speed Triple headers so I have no idea how they compare to the later 1050 headers.
Airbox
The 2011-2015 airbox relies on drawing air through the headstock, a feature which isn't present on pre-2011 frames. I also don't believe it would fit under the pre-2002 fuel tank, so it can't be used. You can't use the pre-2002 airbox either, as pre-2002 throttle bodies are smaller and so are the corresponding intake trumpets in the airbox, so it won't fit on later throttle bodies. They would also choke the engine due to the smaller bore, limiting performance.
That leaves the 2005-2010 airbox and 2002-2004 S3/2002-2006 Daytona airbox. I believe the 1050 airbox should fit comfortably under the tank without any issues, whilst the 955 airbox is snug due to its larger size. That extra size is a good thing though, as it should flow more air and offer better performance than the 1050 airbox. You may need to remove the intake U snorkel on the top of it for clearance under the tank, but again this is a good thing as the u snorkel inlet is smaller than the inlet into the airbox it covers so you're giving the airbox a bigger hole to breath. Edit: D'Ecosse confirmed you need to at least partially remove the U snorkel to get the airbox to fit under a pre-2002 tank, you also need to relocate the Intake Air Temperature sensor because the wiring fouls on the tank underside, and you'll need to use the upper tank mounting holes on the frame instead of the lower ones.
Another deciding factor for the 955 over the 1050 airbox is that the 955 has a port for the IACV used on 955 bikes, whereas you'd have to work out some way of bodging clean air into the IACV with the 1050 airbox. 885 bikes have a different IACV head and the motor is a different part number. However, the motors look identical so if they are, you can just buy a new head for your existing motor (T1241064) to use with the 955 airbox. It may be cheaper to buy a later IACV complete second hand. Edit: If you're using a 1050 airbox it may be useful to use the earlier IACV head and remote mount it with a hose to the 1050 airbox for idle air.
Another thing to note if using the later 955 airbox, if you buy one from a Daytona the intake trumpets are shorter for power high in the rev range to match the Daytona engine. If you aren't using velocity stacks, it's best to get the trumpets from a Speed Triple, Sprint or Tiger (T2201765).
All post-2002 airboxes use the same mounting bracket on the cam cover, I don't know if the throttle body brackets are the same between 955 and 1050 airboxes though. They have different part numbers but look the same, I don't have both to compare.
Throttle Bodies
Pre-2002 throttle bodies have a smaller bore and mount in a completely different fashion to the cylinder head. Post 2002 throttle bodies are all 46mm bore and use a common mounting scheme so in theory they will all work. In practice if you're retaining the Sagem ECU then you have to use the throttle bodies from a 2002-2004 Speed Triple or 2002-2006 Daytona as they have a mounting point for the IACV. Post 2005 throttle bodies use a different idle control scheme which I doubt is compatible with the Sagem ECU, and it would be a pain to fabricate a bracket to get the IACV in the right place.
There are downsides to the 2002-2004 throttle bodies though, these engines had the IACV hoses go direct to ports in the head rather than the throttle bodies, so unless you have a 1050 engine from a bike that was fitted with an EVAP system then you won't have ports on the head to use. The bosses are still present on the casting so you can make your own ports, more on this later. Additionally, the TPS is on the other end and uses a different connector, and you will need to move to a dual throttle cable setup rather than the single cable on pre-2002 bikes.
Injectors & Fuel Rail
I looked at the parts diagrams and the upper injector O rings are constant through at least 1997-2015, so in theory any injector within these years can be swapped into any fuel rail. Physically all the injectors should fit, and they all have 2 pin Junior Timer plugs so will connect to the loom as well. I don't know, however, the operating voltage of all the various injectors, and if it is consistent across Sagem and Keihin ECUs. Edit: Pre 2002 fuel injectors are longer, so unless you fabricate a custom rail bracket you can't use later injectors on an early engine as they won't reach and visa versa.
Sagem ECUs have an injector flow rate listed in the map parameters which isn't present in maps for Keihin ECUs, or at least isn't accessible via TuneECU. I don't doubt there are figures for the 1050 injectors but I haven't been able to find them, and there is no context supplied for the values in the Sagem maps (% duty cycle, units, static/dynamic flow, etc) so there is no way to know if you're making a direct comparison. This makes using 1050 injectors with a Sagem ECU a non-starter. No pun intended. Edit: I believe the Sagem injector flow rate value is in cc/min.
There are two types of injectors used with Sagem ECU bikes, the flow value for the pre-2002 injectors (T1240891) is 285.8, and for post-2002 injectors (T1240892) it is 357.6. I took these from maps 10076 and 10156 respectively. Assuming the injector flow rate is the maximum flow rate based on the maximum duty cycle the ECU will allow, simple maths says the earlier injectors flow 80% of what the later injectors are capable of. I did some rough calculations and assuming 100% volumetric efficiency, a 2002-2006 Daytona uses 10% more air (and thus fuel) at full chat than a 1050 (11,500 vs 9,500 rpm).
Therefore, the later 955 injectors should be suitable for running a 1050 without bumping up against their flow limit,while the earlier injectors will likely top out at around 89% of the fuel flow needed for a 1050 engine at full chat, so they aren't suitable. Edit: mangosmootie16 pointed out the early injectors are also used on the 1st gen Daytona, which I hadn't thought about when doing the maths above. Again assuming 100% volumetric efficiency for lack of data and a 12:1 AFR for most fuel consumption, the 1st gen Daytona uses more fuel at the 10,800RPM redline than a 1050 at its redline so the earlier injectors likely will be fine on a 1050.
A lot of people who have done 1050 conversions have had to deal with the fact that Triumph moved from a feed/return fuel rail to a feed only rail. I've seen mention of modifying the fuel pump plate plumbing inside the tank to only have one outlet, but given that any injector will fit in any rail this is totally unnecessary. Happily, Triumph didn't bother to change the injector spacing between cylinders at all between 955 and 1050 engines. Just put your chosen injectors in your existing feed/return rail and away you go. Additionally, all the throttle bodies post 2002 use the same fuel rail mounting bracket (T1240561) so you aren't tied to a particular fuel rail based on your chosen throttle bodies. Edit: If you're using 1050 throttle bodies, the right hand hose on a feed/return rail may foul the idle control stepper motor so you may only be able to use a feed only rail with 1050 throttle bodies.
The move to the feed only rail was at some point in the post 2002 955 engines. If for some reason you prefer/have a feed only rail, then you could buy the feed only fuel pump plate (T1241088) to match your fuel tank. This is only feasible if you have a tank with a 14 hole pump plate, at some point before 2000 the fuel pump plate used a 10 hole mounting arrangement.
I'm going to take the opportunity to upgrade where I can and make a bit of a 'parts bin special' to get more performance out of the engine once it's in. Since I've done a lot of research on this, I figured I should put all of it in one place for anybody else who wants to do similar. I'm not claiming it all as my own original research mind! Standing on the shoulders of giants and all... I'm also not claiming any of this is 100% correct either, it's just what I've been able to find out. I'm open to being corrected
My current build plan is to:
- Retain the existing ECU and wiring (largely)
- Use the engine from a 2011-2015 Speed Triple
- Use the cooling system from a 2005-2010 Speed Triple
- Use the exhaust headers and oil cooler from a 2002-2006 Daytona
- Use the airbox, throttle bodies and injectors from a 2002-2004 Speed Triple / 2002-2006 Daytona
In terms of performance mods I plan to:
- Fit velocity stacks and a high flow filter in the airbox
- Remove the step in the throttle bodies, knife edge the butterflies and reduce the throttle shaft
- Port match the headers and throttle body transition pieces
- Block off the SAI covers
- Swap to the taller 6th gear from a Sprint GT
I will document all of the issues I come across with putting it all together in a bike. To start with, here is everything with regards to parts compatibility that I've gleaned so far
Running a 1050 with a 955 (Sagem) ECU
In terms of getting the engine running, the simplest thing is to use a Keihin ECU from one of the 2005+ bikes and load the appropriate map. I would then have to buy not only the ECU but an instrument cluster and wiring loom to match, then completely rewire the bike. This is potentially expensive and a lot of extra work, and I like the analogue gauge cluster! Retaining the Sagem ECU also means I need to change the alternator rotor, as the notches on the rotor rim are what the Crankshaft Position Sensor reads and the two ECU types need different waveforms. More on that later.
I considered getting a wideband Lambda sensor and trying to tune the bike myself once it was put together. Even after reading into it and trying to understand what all the map tables mean, I'm not confident I could do a good job, and the mapping parameters don't easily correlate between Sagem and Keihin ECUs. Also, a wideband sensor is expensive. I could get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they are doing for that money, so I will.
That said, I did create a 'starter' map for the new engine based on my current map, 10076. I added 10% extra fuel across the board to account for the displacement increase, changed the injector flow (see below) then changed the rev limit and fan kick point to match the standard 2011-2015 maps. I extrapolated the warmup tables from a later map into the older one as well.
The 2011-2015 1050 Engine
This is the engine I ended up buying but it's basically the same as 2005-2010 engines except for the alternator, sprag clutch, one engine mounting point and one coolant bypass port. The latter two are pretty well covered here, I'll cover the alternator differences later. The sprag clutch is just an uprated version so it has no impact on compatibility.
Cooling System
The pre-2002 Speed Triples use an external filler neck and thermostat, so it's a lot of work to retain your existing plumbing and radiator with the new engine. The radiator mounting points under the headstock are the same up until 2011+ bikes with a different frame, so you can use the cooling system from later bikes. Don't be tempted to buy Daytona or Sprint radiators as they don't have the mounting points for indicators.
After 2002 the cooling system layout is basically the same until at least 2015, with the exception of the location of the expansion bottle. Initially the expansion bottle is the same as pre-2002 bikes, then changes location and shape several times over the 1050 models. You might as well retain the existing one as they all do the same job. I believe radiator fans use the same connector across the years so whichever radiator you choose, the fan plugs straight in.
Your choice of oil cooler limits your choice of radiators as well. You can't use the off-centreline oil cooler from a 2002-2004 Speed Triple as it has banjo fittings instead of the SAE fittings used on later engines. Since 955 oil coolers mount partly to the radiator, the 2002-2004 radiator has the wrong brackets so you can't use that either. Therefore, you have a choice between the larger oil cooler fitted to 2002-2006 Daytonas and the initial 1050 Speed Triples (T2100716), or the smaller oil cooler fitted to pretty much all 1050 bikes after that (T2100756). You need to get the right oil lines and mounting brackets depending on which you choose. I went for the larger oil cooler as bigger is better, right?
Personally, I think the best option is to retain your coolant expansion bottle under the seat and use a 2005-2010 radiator. The radiator mounts are the same and the plumbing is broadly the same as for the 2011+ engine, with the exception of a bypass hose from the head to the radiator which isn't present on 2011+ engines. You can just plug the port on the radiator as shown in Houlster's thread I referenced earlier.
I will be getting Samco hoses so for my planned cooling system I will need a proper hodgepodge of hoses:
- 2011-2015 Water pump to crankcase hose (T2107006, found in Samco kit TRI-10)
- 2005-2010 Water pump to radiator hose (T2100135, found in Samco kit TRI-4 & TRI-7)
- 2005-2010 Cylinder head to radiator hose (T2100751, found in Samco kit TRI-4 & TRI-7)
- 2002-2004 expansion and overflow hoses (T3620311 x2, found in Samco kit TRI-2)
Exhaust Headers
You can't use pre-2002 headers with post-2002 engines, the exhaust ports are a different shape and different gaskets are used. Additionally, post-2002 headers have a mounting point to the frame below the engine. It appears this mounting point was included in the frame castings from around 2000 onwards but not drilled to take a bolt, so it can be made to take later exhausts for the later engines.
I don't believe the headers from 2011-2015 bikes will fit in pre-2011 frames as the engine is at a different angle in the frame and the aforementioned lower mounting point is unlikely to be in the right place.
I initially considered using 2005-2010 headers as they were designed for the 1050 engine and will have the best choice of slipons etc. I found that they changed in 2007 so you will get 2005-2007 headers or 2007-2010 headers. The earlier headers have no lambda sensor boss as this was in the mid-pipe, and unless you are in Australia they will include a pre-catalytic converter in the end section of the header (best to remove for performance!). Post 2007 headers have a lambda sensor boss in the side of the collector and again include a pre-cat.
Brittrip pointed out 2002-2006 Daytona headers are a much better choice. They use the same mounting points and gaskets as all the other post-2002 headers, have a larger bore all the way through, a better collector design, and do not have any catalytic converters. I also found them to be much cheaper than 1050 headers on ebay, winner!
The downsides are they significantly reduce the choice of slipons that are available, and they put the outlet further back and higher up on the bike. Worthy of note is the fact the balance pipe on these headers sticks out so it may interfere with the oil cooler lines. This is purely speculation on my part, but I'm going to use Daytona oil cooler lines to be on the safe side.
I didn't consider the 2002-2004 Speed Triple headers so I have no idea how they compare to the later 1050 headers.
Airbox
The 2011-2015 airbox relies on drawing air through the headstock, a feature which isn't present on pre-2011 frames. I also don't believe it would fit under the pre-2002 fuel tank, so it can't be used. You can't use the pre-2002 airbox either, as pre-2002 throttle bodies are smaller and so are the corresponding intake trumpets in the airbox, so it won't fit on later throttle bodies. They would also choke the engine due to the smaller bore, limiting performance.
That leaves the 2005-2010 airbox and 2002-2004 S3/2002-2006 Daytona airbox. I believe the 1050 airbox should fit comfortably under the tank without any issues, whilst the 955 airbox is snug due to its larger size. That extra size is a good thing though, as it should flow more air and offer better performance than the 1050 airbox. You may need to remove the intake U snorkel on the top of it for clearance under the tank, but again this is a good thing as the u snorkel inlet is smaller than the inlet into the airbox it covers so you're giving the airbox a bigger hole to breath. Edit: D'Ecosse confirmed you need to at least partially remove the U snorkel to get the airbox to fit under a pre-2002 tank, you also need to relocate the Intake Air Temperature sensor because the wiring fouls on the tank underside, and you'll need to use the upper tank mounting holes on the frame instead of the lower ones.
Another deciding factor for the 955 over the 1050 airbox is that the 955 has a port for the IACV used on 955 bikes, whereas you'd have to work out some way of bodging clean air into the IACV with the 1050 airbox. 885 bikes have a different IACV head and the motor is a different part number. However, the motors look identical so if they are, you can just buy a new head for your existing motor (T1241064) to use with the 955 airbox. It may be cheaper to buy a later IACV complete second hand. Edit: If you're using a 1050 airbox it may be useful to use the earlier IACV head and remote mount it with a hose to the 1050 airbox for idle air.
Another thing to note if using the later 955 airbox, if you buy one from a Daytona the intake trumpets are shorter for power high in the rev range to match the Daytona engine. If you aren't using velocity stacks, it's best to get the trumpets from a Speed Triple, Sprint or Tiger (T2201765).
All post-2002 airboxes use the same mounting bracket on the cam cover, I don't know if the throttle body brackets are the same between 955 and 1050 airboxes though. They have different part numbers but look the same, I don't have both to compare.
Throttle Bodies
Pre-2002 throttle bodies have a smaller bore and mount in a completely different fashion to the cylinder head. Post 2002 throttle bodies are all 46mm bore and use a common mounting scheme so in theory they will all work. In practice if you're retaining the Sagem ECU then you have to use the throttle bodies from a 2002-2004 Speed Triple or 2002-2006 Daytona as they have a mounting point for the IACV. Post 2005 throttle bodies use a different idle control scheme which I doubt is compatible with the Sagem ECU, and it would be a pain to fabricate a bracket to get the IACV in the right place.
There are downsides to the 2002-2004 throttle bodies though, these engines had the IACV hoses go direct to ports in the head rather than the throttle bodies, so unless you have a 1050 engine from a bike that was fitted with an EVAP system then you won't have ports on the head to use. The bosses are still present on the casting so you can make your own ports, more on this later. Additionally, the TPS is on the other end and uses a different connector, and you will need to move to a dual throttle cable setup rather than the single cable on pre-2002 bikes.
Injectors & Fuel Rail
I looked at the parts diagrams and the upper injector O rings are constant through at least 1997-2015, so in theory any injector within these years can be swapped into any fuel rail. Physically all the injectors should fit, and they all have 2 pin Junior Timer plugs so will connect to the loom as well. I don't know, however, the operating voltage of all the various injectors, and if it is consistent across Sagem and Keihin ECUs. Edit: Pre 2002 fuel injectors are longer, so unless you fabricate a custom rail bracket you can't use later injectors on an early engine as they won't reach and visa versa.
Sagem ECUs have an injector flow rate listed in the map parameters which isn't present in maps for Keihin ECUs, or at least isn't accessible via TuneECU. I don't doubt there are figures for the 1050 injectors but I haven't been able to find them, and there is no context supplied for the values in the Sagem maps (% duty cycle, units, static/dynamic flow, etc) so there is no way to know if you're making a direct comparison. This makes using 1050 injectors with a Sagem ECU a non-starter. No pun intended. Edit: I believe the Sagem injector flow rate value is in cc/min.
There are two types of injectors used with Sagem ECU bikes, the flow value for the pre-2002 injectors (T1240891) is 285.8, and for post-2002 injectors (T1240892) it is 357.6. I took these from maps 10076 and 10156 respectively. Assuming the injector flow rate is the maximum flow rate based on the maximum duty cycle the ECU will allow, simple maths says the earlier injectors flow 80% of what the later injectors are capable of. I did some rough calculations and assuming 100% volumetric efficiency, a 2002-2006 Daytona uses 10% more air (and thus fuel) at full chat than a 1050 (11,500 vs 9,500 rpm).
Therefore, the later 955 injectors should be suitable for running a 1050 without bumping up against their flow limit,
A lot of people who have done 1050 conversions have had to deal with the fact that Triumph moved from a feed/return fuel rail to a feed only rail. I've seen mention of modifying the fuel pump plate plumbing inside the tank to only have one outlet, but given that any injector will fit in any rail this is totally unnecessary. Happily, Triumph didn't bother to change the injector spacing between cylinders at all between 955 and 1050 engines. Just put your chosen injectors in your existing feed/return rail and away you go. Additionally, all the throttle bodies post 2002 use the same fuel rail mounting bracket (T1240561) so you aren't tied to a particular fuel rail based on your chosen throttle bodies. Edit: If you're using 1050 throttle bodies, the right hand hose on a feed/return rail may foul the idle control stepper motor so you may only be able to use a feed only rail with 1050 throttle bodies.
The move to the feed only rail was at some point in the post 2002 955 engines. If for some reason you prefer/have a feed only rail, then you could buy the feed only fuel pump plate (T1241088) to match your fuel tank. This is only feasible if you have a tank with a 14 hole pump plate, at some point before 2000 the fuel pump plate used a 10 hole mounting arrangement.
