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Crankcase breather relocation, free power!

219K views 254 replies 91 participants last post by  corny15  
#1 · (Edited)
Jesus!...not another of Forchetto's long-winded and tedious write-ups...yes lads, get the popcorn out...:)

Removing the blowby gases from the crankcase is especially important on 360 degree engines as the simultaneous rise and fall of both pistons moves a huge amount of air within the crankcase. 180 degree engines on the other hand, tend to just move the air around the crankcase. Older bike engines had all sorts of weird and wonderful timed breather valves and oil traps, some so inefficient that makers directed the flow of oily gases to the drive chain and claimed it was "an automatic chain oiler".

Most would just let the gases spew towards the rear of the bike through a long hose pipe.

In the 70's emission laws came in banning open breathers so makers re-directed all the crap into the carburettors to be re-cycled and burned.

These blow-by gasses effectively lower the octane rating of the incoming mixture by diluting the charge, displacing oxygen and, being hot, also lower the charge density. Both efects tend to harm Torque/power output.

Oil mist carried in the gasses can also deteriorate the O2 sensors in the EFI bikes, and does no favours to things like the Air Intake Temperature and MAP sensors and other components in the throttle bodies.

Redirecting blow-by gasses away from the air box also helps keep carburettors or throttle bodies and other internals cleaner. Paper filter elements soon become contaminated with oil and moisture as a cursory examination inside the airbox will confirm. They're often found to be oily and/or damp inside.

Some systems are worse than others, ask the owner of an old Honda CB400F how often his air filter needs changing due to choking with oily damp gunge. On those the breather used to discharge straight onto the filter housing.

Most of today's airboxes incorporate a more or less effective coalescing filter arrangement to separate the bulk of oil mist and moisture from the gases, this muck collects in a blocked-off tube under the airbox. This has to be drained periodically by removing a bung. Have a look under your airbox to see it.

Doing away with this recycling of gases from the intake gives a consistent and measurable power gain, typically 1 to 1.5%. As an example on a 82-odd BHP Buell it has been found to give a nice and consistent 1 to 2 hp gain over a wide rpm range. The gain on a lower power Bonnie will be smaller but as a percentage it might be just over 0.5 bhp. On large-engined powerful cars as much as 5 hp has been seen.

Drag racers and other max power maniacs go all the way and even use a vacuum pump to evacuate the crankcase and reduce internal losses. Some people think that the suction inside the airbox does the same but the vacuum level at most speeds is far too low to have this effect.

Recycling the blow-by, the way the factory does, cost a little power over a wide range. A little bit of the power gains noted by our posters on removal of airbox are to be credited to the enforced elimination of the breather arrangements by removing the airbox.

I've done mine by replacing the pre-formed hose with a suitable 12 mm car hose formed into a "U" shape, some hose clips and a rubber-lined "P" clip to hold the filter on to one of the manifold bolts, have placed the small filter to stop muck getting in on full view, it's a nice chromed thing and adds a bit more bling as well as prompting questions from the general public: "What's that thing mister?". The hole that's left in the airbox can be blocked by a suitable rubber bung or screwing an old M8 bolt in there.

The easiest way would be to use the existing hose, disconnected from the airbox and fitted with a suitable filter on the end. This can be tucked in close to the airbox, on top of the crankcase.

Image
 
#4 ·
Interesting. Do you suppose that both pistons falling together meet a significant resistance, with the crankcase having to breathe thru a small tube? Same goes for the upward movement I guess, they would be be leaving a partial vacuum behind.

This would presumably rob power too.
 
#6 ·
The hose I've used is the same internal diameter as the original so it would fit on the existing pipe stub. I know some tuners increase the size of the breather outlet to ease the passage of gases as much as possible, and even fit additional breathers in the cylinder heads and even side cases.

One silly example is those Honda-clone engines used on lots of monkey-bikes, karts, pit-bikes,etc. The Chinese make these engines based on the original Honda Cub 50-70-90cc design, but increase the displacement to as much as 150 cc without increasing the crankcase breathing arrangements.

People fit extra breathers to get better throttle response and power.
 
#8 ·
Another good tip, Forchetto.

I've been using a foam style filter on the end of my crankcase breather tube, it's a well known mod in racing circles that the crankcase gasses are not good for motors...so we don't re-cycle them back into the carbs.

Just one thing...

Be careful that you don't get oil spewing out of the filter if you don't position it correctly.

Usually, it's wise to have the filter up higher, up near the carbs if you can.

Just keep an eye on it after a high speed run. If there is no sign of oil from the filter, fine.

If you see some oil ... get it up higher.


S.
 
#9 ·
Be careful that you don't get oil spewing out of the filter if you don't position it correctly.

Usually, it's wise to have the filter up higher, up near the carbs if you can.

Just keep an eye on it after a high speed run. If there is no sign of oil from the filter, fine.

If you see some oil ... get it up higher.
S.
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep an eye on it. All I get from it at the moment is a lot of hissing and puffing sounds.
 
#10 ·
one way brake check valve

On Norton Commandos (and I believe older Triumphs, perhaps others) it's a common practice to install a one-way brake check valve (about $4 at your local auto parts store) in the breather pipe. It enables gasses to escape the crank case, but not enter, providing a vacuum effect. The reason people do this (and the reason I did it) is to reduce oil seepage caused by pressure and weak seals, and it definitely made a difference, but it also is thought to provide a small increase in power due to the lower crankcase pressure. I wonder if any benefit would be had by fitting a similar valve to a new bonnie, which doesn't have the oil seepage issues...
 
#11 ·
Filters...

My Norton Commando used to spew oil from the breather pipe when I was riding it hard.

There were quite a few solutions involving check valves and plastic bottles, bits of foam and wire... :eek:

Most modern bikes have some sort of system in the crankcase breather to stop almost all oil blow-by to the filter box, but it can still happen at high revs and high crankcase pressures.

I've found that the best type of breather filter is the foam style like the Uni-Filter because it is self-oiling, if you get my drift... :D

The Uni Filters are washable and re-usable, and last a long time, are unaffected by water, too.

Increasing the size of the breather pipe is good, but has diminishing returns because of the crankcase drillings.

In any case, getting the breather out of the air filter box and doing away with re-cycling the fumes and gasses from the bike is a good thing.


S.
 
#12 ·
It looks like the crank case vent tube enters the air box just below the left side carby intake, am I right. I wonder if this has something to do with the difference in the left side spark plug colour. I have notices the left side spark plug is a little leaner than the right one, specially after a long ride.
I know when the motor is running with the oil filler cap off there is a hell of a lot of blow by comi from the filler hole.
 
#13 · (Edited)
It looks like the crank case vent tube enters the air box just below the left side carby intake, am I right.
That's right. Interesting observation. Some people in recent posts have also observed that one exhaust pipe changes colour quicker that the other, coincidentally it seems to be the left pipe also.

Here's a couple of threads on the subject:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-talk/81613-cause-for-concern.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/71816-not-nsync.html
 
#14 ·
Crankcase breather relocation

Hey Forchetto!

Good write up! Makes a lot of sense! Some drag racing cars I used to work on would evacuate the crankcase with vacuum from the exhaust headers. A hose ran from each valve cover to the header collector. Convenient way to get rid of the blow-by oil and fumes.

By the way, who make the breather that you are using?
 
#19 ·
#21 ·
No drips so far. I reasoned that the longish "U" hose might present enough of a uphill barrier for any oil to drain back. If I see any collecting on the filter I'll have to re-position it higher up and vertical I suppose.
 
#22 ·
Pics of other breathers fitted would be good to see.
 
#23 ·
breather pics

Motolink, a couple of examples for you:

recent fitment to 08 efi:
Image


earlier version on carb'd 06:
Image


The 'filter' is really just a mesh, to stop small creatures and carelessly discarded cigarette ends being sooked into the motor, I suppose. The early version I had on for the year or so I had the bike, not so much as a drip on the crank-case, just staining round the mesh. What little oil mist is created just goes out into the atmosphere :eek:
 
#24 ·
Thank you Forchetto. I will be happy to take the .5 - 1 HP.
I'm very glad you have a Bonneville and post here. :)
Cheers mate.
Ted.
 
#26 ·
Thanks, great photos and some good ideas, much appreciated. I will definately fit a breather
 
#30 ·
I must have missed the part where somebody put a bike on a dyno and posted the results.

Breather tuning is a contentious subject, because different engines respond dramatically differently, and unless the stock setup was extremely deficient in some way (think Nortons spitting oil out through every seam) there's usually very little power to be gained. The bikes Forchetto mentioned (Buell and Triumph) have one trivial similarity (two cylinders) and many very important differences (crankcase volume, plus a dry sump and timed breathers on the Buell, to only name the most important ones). That's not to say that it won't work, but there's no guarantee that it will, either.

The internet is absolutely full of crap information on this, because it seems like something simple where logic should apply, so people come up with all sorts of explanations for why an engine should behave in a certain way when a certain sort of breather is fitted. Logic does not apply here. To get good information, you have to test, because no two engines respond quite the same. There are some generalizations, but specifics depend on the engine in question. Most engines make more power under moderate vacuum than under none at all. How much power depends on the engine and varies dramatically from engine to engine. How much this shortens the engine's lifespan varies dramatically from engine to engine as well. (Vacuum in the crankcase lowers oil pressure, among other things.) Some run fine for a long time. Some grenade after a few hours. There's one way to tell which are which, and it's expensive.

For smaller pressure differentials (say between a breather under slight vacuum and an open breather at ambient pressure), the effects on both power and durability are much smaller and could go either way, especially when the slight vacuum comes from the airbox. That's not to say that it's not worth experimenting, just that if you're going to experiment, you do no good unless you measure the results.

The options available from TPUSA and BP are just open breathers with built-in catch cans. No functional difference between them and a high tube with a filter, aside from aesthetics. They would provide a good (if expensive) starting point for an exhaust extractor setup though, because you really should run a catch can unless you want to spray oil everywhere if something goes wrong.

FWIW, I'm wrestling with whether to book some extra dyno time for the new engine to sort out the breather issue, because to my knowledge it hasn't been explored very far with these engines. I'm leaning toward not bothering because without an airbox, running an open breather is a no-brainer, and going to a check valve or a full-on exhaust extractor opens the gate to the aforementioned durability issues. Who knows, though? Maybe I'll try it anyway and just watch my oil pressure, level, and viscosity closely? I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
 
#33 ·
The easiest way would be to use the existing hose, disconnected from the airbox and fitted with a suitable filter on the end. This can be tucked in close to the airbox, on top of the crankcase.
I tried the same set-up when I installed my air-box eliminator. The kit came with a metal screen type filter; for good measure, I slipped a foam microphone sock (costs a few bucks at any music store) over the end and secured it with a tie-wrap. The big drawback to this approach is that the top of my swing-arm pivot was always covered with oily schmutz and I lost about half a quart of oil between changes. I strongly considered pointing the tube upward, as I've seen others do; but this looked too cluttered when I tried it.

My solution was to put a 1/2" (12mm) nylon, barbed, 90* elbow at the end and run automotive heater hose uphill all the way to the rear of my fender. The hose is tucked in tight and is not visible, the oil vapor condenses out of the stream and runs back down into the engine. The foam sock stayed dry, so I replaced it with a paper type filter element ($15.00 at any auto supply store); it looks better and I don't get smarta** questions about it being a microphone for a video camera. :D
.......................James.
 
#35 ·
breather update

guys,

It took a while to show itself, but the breather location on my previous post on page3, has been laying a film of oil on the crankcase :eek: I never had a problem with oil deposits on the previous two twins I've done this to, but they were Scramblers with the 270' crank. I don't know if that's the difference, but I've relocated the breather higher up anyway:
Image

I had lots of spare hoses with pre-formed bends, left over from the various Ai removals on Hinkley twins and a Transalp. I managed to join three sections to perfectly route from the crankcase outlet to the new filter location:
Image


If I get any problems with this setup I'll let you know.

Image


ps. the relay is for my heated grips