....Thanks for putting all this in one spot a sticky would be cool.

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...riple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

...So with the 3 phases from the stator does order into the r/r matter? IE Does the order of the yellow wires matter?

No matter, they can mate to any input.

 

No matter, they can mate to any input.

That is what I thought she said.....then I got slapped!

Another opportunity for me to repeat that all bikes should have a voltage monitoring device. Doesn't matter how simple or elaborate so long as you have something that indicates the output from the R/R.

Otherwise your indication of a problem is a flat battery.

 

Excellent thread DEcosse,:goodpost:

I do not pretend to understand it all but get the general idea, the mod makes the electrickery storage device have an easier time and keeps everything topped up so you don't get the low voltage syndrome these machines are prone to get with low bats.

cheers,
DaveM

 

...I do not pretend to understand it all but get the general idea, the mod makes the electrickery storage device have an easier time and keeps everything topped up so you don't get the low voltage syndrome these machines are prone to get with low bats....

Close but not quite Dave - it's more about reliability; part of the mod, the direct connection to the battery (which can be done even with the OEM R/R) will give a higher charging voltage at the battery; but the replacement R/R is just a better all-round device -gives better voltage regulation and operates much, much cooler. The heat is one of the main killers of this device. Judging by the number of threads with questions about possible failures to charging system, this is possibly a reasonable preventive modification, even if the original device is still functioning. One problem with waiting till it fails, is it often takes the stator with it - making the repair a much-more expensive proposition!

Following OnD's advice on related subject, one of best things you can do for long-lasting performance from your battery is to consistently use a battery maintainer. Battery Tender Junior and Optimate are excellent choices. You can install a waterproof pig-tail on the bike across the battery terminals, such that when you pull into garage, just plug it in, without having to remove any access panels, seats etc.

 

FH012AA on 2000 Sprint?

Will the FH012AA work on a 2000 Sprint? I need to do something because when everything is warmed up, I'm only getting 13.3 VDC at the battery. I'm waiting for some warmer weather before I check voltage at the rectifier, and check out the stator. Right now, I'm making do with the Battery Tender. But this mod looks like a real problem solver.

Thanks,

Charlie

 

Will the FH012AA work on a 2000 Sprint? ...

No, sorry Charlie. Your 2000 has an automotive style integrated alternator, not the separate Generator and Rectifier/Regulator of the 02+ generation motors.

 

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my FH012AA R/R as recommended by DeCosse. I'm making up the wiring harness beforehand, including 10 AWG output conductors direct to battery. I am having trouble finding a prewired fuseholder at 10AWG locally, though. Has anyone found one at any of the usual automotive type places or is it a special order? Thanks for any input.

If anyone is interested, here is a very nice example http://cgi.ebay.com/10AWG-ATC-WATER...WG-ATC-WATERPROOF-FUSE-HOLDER-W/COVER---500_W0QQitemZ330264669533QQcmdZViewItem for only $500.

 

I am doing the upgrade.

I had a bad stator and my rectifer seems to be alright when I test it with the meter, but i when a head an order a FH010 from a zx10. should be here tomorrow and if I put my stator in correctly and can do the wirering correctly I should be able to take my daytona 650 out for a little spin. She has been down since November . but tomorrow will be the TEST. wish me luck I will take a pic if any one want to see my mod.

 

daytona 650 KX10 rectifier

ok here are some pics of what I did. It seems to be working. I took the bike for a spin and test the voltage and it seems to work great

check the pic

I had a bad stator and more than likly a bad rectifier so I re placed both.

I used the standard triumph mount. I had to drill 2 new holes in it but it worked great. I had the rectifer slight angle so it I would be able to drill holes in the metal. When on the kick stand the rectifier is almost straight up. it work out really well.

Test
before replace rectifier and stator
off 12.4
running 11.6

Test with new stuff
off 12.4
running 14.4ish
turn it off after about 5 min 12.8

so it seems to be doing good so letr hope it keeps up

 

Is that structure (house) wiring I see there?

 

what structure

if you are talking about the tape yeah it is stator plug.

I put a pin on each wire and the put the pin all 3 holes. Its looked like it will be fine, they where not touching or anything. I coated all my splices and connectors with something like liquid electric tape. I tape off the standard output of the stator to make sure it stay connected and everything. I could have took it out but I decide not too. Hope fully it does not back fire on me later on.

 

I couldn't tell if that was your final placement for the R/R but if it is you may want to think about installing it with the terminals facing down. If the terminal housing fills with water in rainy weather you'll have all kinds of issues.

 

I though about that

I am think about caulking them up some how maybe with silicon of some type or just tape it up real good. IT would of been a pain to install any other way.

 

Just a quick notice for anyone revisiting the thread, that I updated the initial post with a prologue on troubleshooting the OEM charging system

 

a couple of stupid questions

I just got back on the forum, and have a couple of stupid questions about my 07 ST

First the background, and I will recheck my numbers in the morning and resubmit.

Battery is new, replaced because I thought the problem was battery.
Bike on, not running, battery charged, 12.2 V
Bike running, immediatly after starting, battery charged 12.6V
Bike running, Immediatly after starting, any RPM 12.6V

Bike will start about 6 times from full charge but when it goes though, I get a click, the low fuel light comes on, and nothing will happen till I turn key off and reset. Sometimes bike will turn over partway first time then nothing.

Bike will jump off immediatly and run until turned off, but must then be recharged on trickle charger.

Now the questions:

Does this sound like a problem this upgrade will correct?

I am planning on running a GPS and next winter a heated vest, will this upgrade help the charging system handle those sort of farkles?

I can hold my own at troubleshooting AC voltage systems from 120 to 600 volts, but for some reason I go loopy with 12V DC systems so any suggestions or guidance for my stupidity would be appreciated.

 

...
Battery is new, replaced because I thought the problem was battery.

Bike on, not running, battery charged, 12.2 V
Bike running, immediatly after starting, battery charged 12.6V
Bike running, Immediatly after starting, any RPM 12.6V...

Your initial reference, 12.2V with ignition & lights on indicates your battery is in pretty good shape - as you would expect for a recent replacement.
Your charging voltages are very low however.
I might be more inclined to suspect a stator problem on this one.
Unplug your stator connector to the R/R and follow the troubleshooting guide in the initial post; do all the checks for both the stator and the regulator as indicated.

 

First, thanks DEcosse for putting together such a useful thread.:applause:

I've bought a s/hand FH012AA R/R off a Yamaha FZ1 2007 Fazer and am planning on fitting it next week.

10AWG wiring with output and return wrapped together for low loop area (low inductance) is better.

Can you explain the 'low loop area (low inductance)' bit in laymans terms please.

 

Cautionary Note!
2. Install a battery indicator!

Good idea!

Wait a minute. I've done the nag for a battery voltage monitor bunches of times. Wotta you been holding out for, a chrome one?

 

regulator regulator upgrade

Thank you for the posting of how to improve the charging system of any bike. I have owned a honda shadow ace 750 that has always been plaged with a low output charging system. I have been on other forums and i was unable to find the great information that you suppled. I have always had a problem with the plug from the stator to the r/r melting. Something it would melt just one connections and other times all 3 connections. I have found that the wires from the stator to the r/r get warm and sometimes hot to the point that they melt the connector. I was hoping that yo can guide me it how to repair this problem. I have even gone as far as to eliminate the connectors and solder the wires together. I did the r/r upgrade and for the first time in the life of the bike the charging system worked as it was suppose to. At idle i get 13.98 to 14.10 volts, the lights are brighter and the starter turns over faster. This great feeling lasted a short time as the battery which is new is not holding up to a load test. It acts like the battery is weak. With the key off the battery reads 12.8 volts, turn the key on and the battery use to drop down to 12 volts. Now it drops quickly to about 10 volts I ride the bike to work on the highway for 45 minutes. This i belive should be enough time for the battery to recharge. The only part of the charging system that is original is the stator but it test out fine, before and after the upgrade. If you can thing of anything that will cure the problem of the melting connection or the reason why the battery is not working correctly please let me know. Thank you.

 

Thanks for joining us here rcdoc - glad to be able to help your non-triumph!

Maybe you can give us some more info, what bike model and maybe some pics of the offending burning connectors.

These systems are generating/transferring a LOT of current and the OEM wires are frequently quite under-sized.

What I might suggest is that you follow the diagram a couple of posts up and replace your OEM stator to R/R interconnect cable with 10 ga wire, eliminating the connector before the R/R completely
i.e. Directly from the stator output plug to the R/R
The OEM harness may be interlaced in your main harness - just unplug it and ignore it and make a new stand-alone cable that will run in it's place.
The better grade of wire will handle the current much better.
What happens with smaller grade is that it heats up, causing the resistance to increase, exacerbating the problem. You can also get arcing between the connectors, or bad connections which makes the additional current required have to be supplied by the other phases.

Did you connect the output of the FH012 (I assume that's what you got?) directly to the battery as also shown in the diagram? That is the most efficient also for best charging voltage.

Your battery appears to be bad - it is not retaining sufficient charge & failing load test. What brand of battery did you get?
If it is indeed relatively new, return it for warranty replacement.
With batteries, particularly motorcycle, you tend to get what you pay for. Yuasa (avoid the ones made in China), SVR and Deka are all excellent.
If you recharge a motorcycle battery with a bench charger always use the lowest scale - you never want to exceed 2A rate.
A quality battery maintainer (Battery Tender or Optimate are excellent choices) is a good investment. They come with a pigtail SAE waterproof connector you can leave permanently connected to the battery and just plug in your maintainer when you pull into the garage.

Note - I have found a source for the connectors for this FH012 and will be posting up info shortly on how to get them - stay tuned!

 

Note - I have found a source for the connectors for this FH012 and will be posting up info shortly on how to get them - stay tuned!

What's the source of connectors?

Where can we find female connectors for individual terminals on the FH012? Standard quick disconnets are 1/4", but that's too small. This seems to be at least 5/16". Can't find them at the usual stores -- autoparts, lowes, radio shack.

1/4" male quick disconnects fit the stator output on the factory Triumph connector and factory voltage regulator harness.

 

regulator rectifier

Thank you for the quick response. Yes i did install the fho12 r/r. The wires from the r/r to the battery are 10 guage, the wires from the stator to the r/r are 16 guage {stock wiring}. as for the battery I get them from a battery specialy house, this one happens to have a label of motocross. It is a diferent brand than what I have been getting from them which was label xtreme. I have had good luck with the xtreme which last 4 to 5 years. I recharged both the old and new batteries last night and installed the old battery. The no load voltage is 12.6 and the light loaded is 11.5 which is great. The connectors I have been using are called bullet connectors. They are for 14-16 guage wire. I removed the connectors last night and I hard wired the wires from the stator to the r/r for the mean time till I can find an answer as to why they keep melting. The bike is a honda shadow ace 750 1999. I have owned several honda bikes in the past and have notice that not just on my bike but others bikes that the startor to r/r plug all seem to fail with time. The bike has 50,000 miles on it and runs like a top. The idea about going to a heavier wire from the stator to the r/r is a good one and I will be doing that mod this weekend. The connectors for the stator to r/r fail in a short time like 300 miles it could be because the system is really working now and the connectors can not handle the current when before they would last 5000 or so miles but the charging system was not really putting out that much current. I hope this information will aid you in aiding me on a solution. thank you.

 

11.5 'light loaded' is not great - mine has been sitting for a couple of weeks without the maintainer and unloaded was about 12.5, with ignition & headlights (110W) dropped to 11.8 and holding - when ignition turned off, recovered to ~ 12.2 (which does show it was not at peak charge).
With a full charge I would not have expected even that drop.

Question about your battery location/configuration - is your battery vertical? Is it AGM or conventional wet acid?

In quite a few motorcycle applications, batteries are not mounted vertically in which case they MUST be AGM.

Were these from batteries plus?
Take them back and have them do full load test on them. At least their warranty is decent and usually applied quite liberally from my understanding.

 

r/r upgrade

The battery that i was testing is the old one which has 4 years on it. Yes the battery is a agm or mat, it is mounted upright. Yes they are from batteries plus. And the the battery was charged with a battery tender.

 

Looks like I'll be trying one of these soon too. I have an 05 Sprint and the battery just isn't charging properly. Had to install a new battery this morning after the previous one died yesterday.

New battery is charged showing 12.9V, Ignition on (not running) drops down to 12.2, running it climbs back up to 12.6V or so. I went out and bought the components to direct wire the R/R to the battery as described and there wasn't any change on the running output. I suspect the regulator might be gone. Well, I do have 45,000 miles on the Sprint so many it's just time to replace the R/R.

I'll be looking for the FH012 version so I can install it on the Sprint. What are the connector types on the FH012? I can try to do a search through my engineering connections, maybe I can grab a bunch and share them with the group.

Peace and ride safe.
Falcon

 

You can find the connector types listed on the spec sheet in the first post - not commonly available! I have found a resource, waiting for them to come in. But if you can find, more power to you - and possibly our mutual benefit.

On your own situation, be sure it is not your stator - which given your readings may well be the case.
Follow the TS guide in the opening post re checking the stator output. I'm thinking you may have burned phase.

 

Hi DEcosse,

Thanks for the info. I was reading some other posts and decided to do a search for Ricks, come to find out they are just a few miles up the street from home. called them and they said they will test both the stator and the rectifier at the shop. Maybe even while I'm there they'll let me grab some pics of the process so I can post them on the forum. I'll let you know how it turns out.

BTW, got up this morning to ride to work and it was a no go. Brand new battery, ran fine yesterday, charged it overnight (just in case) and sure enough I couldn't get her to start. I didn't check the voltage as I was already running late for work.

I'm also going to order a replacement FH012 regulator as well, figure I'll do them both at the same time; while waiting for the regulator to ship the stator will be getting re-wound at Ricks.

Anything in particular I should ask for at Rick's or should I just leave it to them?

Falcon

 

They're good people - they'll know what to do.
I have a 'Rick's' stator in my own bike. Solid product!
I definitely endorse them - good products & excellent support.
Don't let them sell you on a replacement R/R however - not that their products are poor, just that the FH012 is best thing available right now. But they can do the stator for you if that is needed.
Incidentally I had previously asked them if they could source connectors for the FH012 & they said not.
But my source should come through shortly - waiting on shipment.

 

just got finished doin my upgrade to a zx10 regulator and these are the results. just a few pictures of placement and wiring (im proud of the wiring and how it came out) and with that everything worked out great! thank you again decosse

2004 daytona 600