Which O2 lambda sensor delete kit for T120 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Which O2 lambda sensor delete kit for T120

Are they all the same or is one better than the other, i.e. British Customs/Legends, Dynojet, Weslake, Baak, etc?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 08:34 AM
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Why do this?
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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Would not delete them just for the sake of deleting them
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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Why do this?
I'm glad you've asked. Thinking it might cure the s*y jerky throttle that is killing the pleasure of riding of a what it is (apart from this) a great motorbike. Triumph $*tealers are pathetic scratching their heads, and in the meantime I have to be extra careful and always use the clutch when accel/ decel. This jumpy throttle is a bit dangerous in the corners as sometimes it cut me by surprise. Having read the threads posted around I see that it smoothed out the throttle for people which I'm hoping to achieve.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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Might want to try a Booster Plug.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 03:59 PM
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I installed the dreaded placebo Booster Plug to address this and fattening it up by 6% reduced the jerkiness but didn’t eliminate it. This suggests a fueling problem. The Weslake kit is two Dynojet O2 eliminator plugs and the bolts to take the place of the sensors. When I asked Dynojet about the plugs, they said they didn’t offer them for the T120 PCV. This didn’t make sense but maybe they just don’t want to sell the eliminators without the expensive PC5.

This problem occurs for me at the top of 1st gear at about 3000 rpm. It’s still low throttle where the fueling is probably affected by the O2 sensors. If you install the eliminators, fueling will be based on MAP or throttle position, depending on parameters in the tune, which no one has seen. I doubt that the O2 sensors are causing this problem but it’s cheaper than the booster plug so please try this and let us know. I think a PCV and proper dyno tune will sort this out.

Last edited by Dougl1000; 04-16-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 10:35 PM
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An O2 eliminator is just a plug containing two resistors. One is to provide a load to simulate the heater element so the ECU doesn't throw an error, and the other is to stop the ECU receiving spurious signals from the missing O2 sensor itself. An O2 sensor isn't resistive, it's a voltage device that creates a voltage based on the amount of O2 present. The 3K resistor simply pulls the signal to zero volts, so the ECU thinks the bike is always running lean, or in most cases the ECU considers the O2 sensor to have not yet heated up and stays in open-loop mode.
Is it a good idea on a bike with no programmed ECU? Well not really. The O2 sensor does a good job of keeping the mixture at 14.7:1 when cruising or idling, which is ideal for efficiency and not building up carbon deposits. Under acceleration the O2 sensor is ignored anyway (open loop mode) so it's not relevant.
Why have them at all? Well if you have a PCV and it corrects the mixture to your desired 13:1, with an O2 sensor the ECU will try to lean out the mixture again, so you disable the O2 sensor so the ECU doesn't detect anything amiss and doesn't 'fiddle' with the fuelling.

Re the booster plug, if you really want to try the effects on a 25C day just buy a 2K resistor and stick it in series with the pink wire to the airbox temp sensor.

If you really want to copy a BoosterPlug and get the huge benefits (cough) of a temperature independent fuel increase, buy a 2.2K NTC thermistor and a 56K resistor. Wire them in parallel, then insert them in series with the pink wire. You don't even need a PCB, the circuit is ridiculously simple.

Here's a pack of 10 NTC thermistors for $4 : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-23...Y/263450775678
Here's 100 56K resistors for $7: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Resistor...s/123709340940

So you can build your own BoosterPlugs for under 50c each.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsobell View Post
An O2 eliminator is just a plug containing two resistors. One is to provide a load to simulate the heater element so the ECU doesn't throw an error, and the other is to stop the ECU receiving spurious signals from the missing O2 sensor itself. An O2 sensor isn't resistive, it's a voltage device that creates a voltage based on the amount of O2 present. The 3K resistor simply pulls the signal to zero volts, so the ECU thinks the bike is always running lean, or in most cases the ECU considers the O2 sensor to have not yet heated up and stays in open-loop mode.
Is it a good idea on a bike with no programmed ECU? Well not really. The O2 sensor does a good job of keeping the mixture at 14.7:1 when cruising or idling, which is ideal for efficiency and not building up carbon deposits. Under acceleration the O2 sensor is ignored anyway (open loop mode) so it's not relevant.
Why have them at all? Well if you have a PCV and it corrects the mixture to your desired 13:1, with an O2 sensor the ECU will try to lean out the mixture again, so you disable the O2 sensor so the ECU doesn't detect anything amiss and doesn't 'fiddle' with the fuelling.

Re the booster plug, if you really want to try the effects on a 25C day just buy a 2K resistor and stick it in series with the pink wire to the airbox temp sensor.

If you really want to copy a BoosterPlug and get the huge benefits (cough) of a temperature independent fuel increase, buy a 2.2K NTC thermistor and a 56K resistor. Wire them in parallel, then insert them in series with the pink wire. You don't even need a PCB, the circuit is ridiculously simple.

Here's a pack of 10 NTC thermistors for $4 : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-23...Y/263450775678
Here's 100 56K resistors for $7: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Resistor...s/123709340940

So you can build your own BoosterPlugs for under 50c each.
Without seeing the A/F table in a w/c tune, how would you know where (TP vs RPM) closed loop ends? For an LCD odometer air cooled T100 with stock exhaust, the ECU is still in closed loop at 35% throttle and 4000 rpm.

Last edited by Dougl1000; 04-16-2019 at 11:59 PM.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 12:26 AM
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PS. Just remembered that the PCV installation instructions for the T120 don’t even mention the O2 sensors, much less replace them with O2 eliminator plugs. How does the PCV work with the O2 sensors working?

PPS. The O2 eliminators aren’t mentioned in any of the PCV instructions, for example, the Rocket III. The PCIII on my 2007 R3 had the O2 eliminators but the PCIII instructions don’t mention the O2 eliminators. These modules aren’t listed in the parts included with the PCIII. I conclude that they come with the PCs but have their own instructions for installation. I didn’t buy the PCIII, the dealer did, so I never saw what came in the box.

Last edited by Dougl1000; 04-17-2019 at 01:01 AM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 07:16 AM
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The map has nothing to do with open/closed loop. At 4000rpm/35% throttle the bike might be going down hill accelerating gently, climbing a hill decelerating, or cruising on a freeway. Open loop might only be when the bike is trying to go uphill, as the open loop feature is essentially only when the bike is under load, i.e. when the MAP sensor registers heavy load. There are sections of the map that will only be reached under heavy load (and lots that are never touched).

The O2 eliminators used to be provided with every PCV, but about a year ago they started saying they weren't necessary and omitting them from the package. I think this was related to the old HD legal issues where they don't want to be instructing people to remove an emissions system component.

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Last edited by jsobell; 04-17-2019 at 11:00 AM.
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