Starting My Thruxton 1200 R - Page 2 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Water Cooled Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for water cooled Triumph Twins.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 04:00 PM
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On my Ducati, you press the start button and release it - - the starter continues to operate automatically until the bike is running. Works every time. I use the same technique on my T120: hold the starter until the bike starts and runs, not just until a cylinder fires. No need to touch the throttle.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tsmgguy View Post
On my Ducati, you press the start button and release it - - the starter continues to operate automatically until the bike is running. Works every time. I use the same technique on my T120: hold the starter until the bike starts and runs, not just until a cylinder fires. No need to touch the throttle.
That's probably coincidental more than anything else. Marelli is simple. Siemens on my 796 can be a PITA when cold. Has a protocol which requires a full ECU shutdown for the second try taking ~ 3 minutes.

It will fire and run first time if it catches instantly, otherwise, you'd burn out the starter getting it to catch if you just kept cranking. Wait 3 minutes and it fires/runs on the second attempt. Valves/pistons have to be in the right position or the ECU cuts either fuel or spark regardless of whether you hold the button.

Has been better since the "boss" did the last major personally. I know he balanced the throttle bodies with a manometer and the timing belt positions may be more optimum. Donnie Unger IS a perfectionist...

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 12:47 PM
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Guys this is a known problem caused by low-voltage crank-inhibit logic in the ECU. You can bypass the ECU check and fix it. There's a 41 page thread on this which makes fascinating reading if you have the time.

https://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled...ing-issue.html

If you don't have the time, then go to my post #405 where I index the important post numbers. If you don't want to do that mod, then you can replace the OEM battery with a high performance battery such as this:

http://www.bikebandit.com/aftermarke...kaAl_XEALw_wcB
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Last edited by postoak; 08-31-2017 at 03:10 PM.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SirCuffsalot View Post
Yes, this is 'normal' for this bike. Even talked to a Triumph tech about it. I found that if you twist the throttle slightly while holding the start-button with your thumb, that will work on the 'first cold start of the day'...
I've been off my bike for a week (Hospital <sadface>) so figured that's about as 'cold start' as it's going to get. Went out to the garage, gave it the key, pulled the slack and then just a bit more on the throttle, held down the start button and it went "ye-ye-ye-ye-ye-ye-pop ye-ye..." Okay. It takes two. I hate everybody turning their head at group rides when my self-proclaimed "best bike ever made" fails to start, but I can live with it. As pointed out above, it's a feature - not a bug.



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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 03:08 PM
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It seems to me it is a bug in the ECU logic. My only question is if Triumph somewhere along the way fixed the ECU programming or if new bikes are still having the problem.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by postoak View Post
... or if new bikes are still having the problem.
My bike's a '16 Thruxton R - often takes two tries to start (when cold). No big deal though.



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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by postoak View Post
It seems to me it is a bug in the ECU logic. My only question is if Triumph somewhere along the way fixed the ECU programming or if new bikes are still having the problem.
Take it up with Keihin, however appears to be a compromise between Triumph and the ECU-maker who write the software for cold starts. Not a "bug"..., and it's Euro 4 & 5.

If you couldn't restart instantly when you stall a hot engine..., THAT would be a BUG!

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 03:49 PM
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One could make the case that low-voltage starting might damage the ECU, hence the logic, but none of the people who have made the mod have reported any damage. So I'm sticking with it is a bug and laziness on Triumph's part.

What no one has asked is why the engine will start after a few seconds. Has the voltage increased (doubtful)? Is there some logic in there that overrides the initial logic if another attempt is made within x seconds? If so, why? Also doubtful.

Maybe the low-voltage crank override only kicks in when a piston is at TDC and after the initial crank and stop then one of the two conditions required to stop the crank no longer is operative.

Last edited by postoak; 08-31-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017, 03:52 PM
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Hope all is well now, with you or someone you know, and that you're done with the hospital now!
Yeah, like you & others already mentioned, we'll just call it a feature, rather than an issue. My "first cold start of the day" is usually all by myself in my garage anyway. #Who Cares

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postoak View Post
Guys this is a known problem caused by low-voltage crank-inhibit logic in the ECU. You can bypass the ECU check and fix it. There's a 41 page thread on this which makes fascinating reading if you have the time.

https://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled...ing-issue.html

If you don't have the time, then go to my post #405 where I index the important post numbers. If you don't want to do that mod, then you can replace the OEM battery with a high performance battery such as this:

http://www.bikebandit.com/aftermarke...kaAl_XEALw_wcB


In this thread the bike is described as turning over for a "split second" when pressing the start and then either repeating the behavior or starting in two seconds. I haven't tried replicating this behavior. I just hold the start for about two seconds and then repeat... It almost always starts the second time. It sounds like this is the same issue, though.

I was able to get it started on the first attempt yesterday by holding a very slight amount of throttle.


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