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Scrambler 1200 XE Ohlins modifications?

43K views 134 replies 31 participants last post by  Haro 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, though most owners seem to be very pleased with their suspensions, others find them unnecessarily stiff. I've tried the settings in the book for comfort, on top of a multitude of other settings, and spending 2 hours with a suspension expert. So please, without debating the adjustments (I've gone full circle on that already), has any of you replaced the springs, oil and or valving of the rear shocks? If so, would you mind sharing your weight and the specs of the parts you replaced? I'm not expecting a Goldwing, but our roads are simply horrendous, and I want a plusher ride then what I'm experiencing now. Even compared to my friends HP4, the suspensions feel harsh.



Thanks!
 
#51 ·
“1 Static sag is a measure of how much your bike settles on its suspension with you on board. We generally recommend the Race-Tech method of measuring sag, which takes into account any stiction in the suspension components. ... 2 Put on your regular riding gear and hop on your bike, assuming your normal riding position.”

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/ask-geek-set-your-static-sag

I went to a specialized suspension shop who among other things, prepare suspensions for sponsored dirtbike racers, I think they know what they are doing.

If you read previous posts you’d know Ive gone full circle on the adjustments. Including going from near max preload to minimum.



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#52 ·
Seems like there's conflict on the word static
Several Google searches reveal opposite to the first one which is what you quoted.
First the bike is lifted unweighted measure from the axle to a point vertical, then put the bike down on the ground bounce it a few times and measure again, that's static sag. Then sit on it, that's race/rider sag. Measuring the difference between static and rider and that defines what spring rate you should have. If it's over the recommended, go heavier, below lighter.


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#53 · (Edited)
The guy measured with the bike on a jack, suspensions completely extended, with the bike on the ground and then with me on the bike, these guys do this all day long. Thing is it could be the spring (1 or both of them), but it could also be the valving (the high speed compression damping) and/or the spring(s)...still waiting for an answer from Ohlins before I start throwing money at it, I've been down that rabbit hole before and know too well it can be both expensive and disappointing. Each of the options will run me about 400$, and changing/combining the options will push you over 1000$ in no time, and then you have to add the time in between the mods to re-adjust them before deciding if it solved it or not, if it didnt you move on to the next part and repeat...I wish it was a simple as "you just need a stiffer spring", I would have had it done 4 weeks ago.
 
#55 ·
Contacted another shop, they said you can't really set a proper sag on these dual springs (when the springs rates are too different), as you can actually end up completely compression the first one when adding preload, which removes the capacity to remove the small imperfections of the road, you start directly the stroke on the stiff spring).

He suggested a change of oil, valving and change the bigger spring with a softer one. About 600$ all in all, it's 2 hours from here and I need to leave the bike there a week...working on a plan. Might also have them work on the forks while they're at it. He also confirmed twin shocks will never be quite as good as monoshocks because of the absence of linkage.
 
#62 ·
Here's the forks in action. Strangely enough they look similar to my Africa Twin forks (very soft), yet somehow theres always that hard edge on them. Initially I even tried firming them up, thinking it must be so soft I'm only using the last part of the stroke. Turns out unless I really squeeze the brakes, there's no way I'm near bottoming out.



Here was the Africa Twin on similar roads:


The Africa had a plush ride yet it never bottomed out even on small jumps.

Sent the video to the suspension shop, maybe he'll be able to make sens of it.
 
#63 ·
Here's the forks in action. Strangely enough they look similar to my Africa Twin forks (very soft), yet somehow theres always that hard edge on them. Initially I even tried firming them up, thinking it must be so soft I'm only using the last part of the stroke. Turns out unless I really squeeze the brakes, there's no way I'm near bottoming out.
https://youtu.be/fKEIhR_cRK0


Here was the Africa Twin on similar roads:
https://youtu.be/hj3g7QIb3no

The Africa had a plush ride yet it never bottomed out even on small jumps.

Sent the video to the suspension shop, maybe he'll be able to make sens of it.
You might benefit by putting progressive springs up front. I had Hyperpro's in my FJR and that was the best feeling front end I've ever had on a bike. Unfortunately, I also had their rock hard rear "sport" shock which was about the worst.
A progressively wound fork spring is soft to initial impacts, but then stiffen exponentially as the spring compresses to a point where its linearly wound. Most stock springs are linearly wound from top to bottom. They stiffen linearly as they're compressed across the stroke.
As you do get plenty of spring travel, I'd have to say that going with a less viscous fork oil is another option. I run a 5W Lucas in my Thruxton and it's still a little harsh over the sharp impacts, but a whole lot better than it was stock. The funny thing about fork oils is that one guy's 5W may actually be as viscous as another guy's 10W. You have to dig a little to find the actual viscosity of various brands.
I assume you have the compression damping backed off to nothing. If not, find a screwdriver and get twisting to the left...
 
#66 ·
I stopped by the shop today to check out the XC. Me likey. Also sat on a GS850 with the factory lowered suspension. Actually, they were about the same heightwise. The Triumph just felt like slipping on an old shoe though. I only wish they'd have given the XC a couple of dial gauges. I'm not really into all the tablet computer gadgetry.
They did a really nice job of getting the pipe away from the rider, but I'm afraid any passengers won't fare as well.
 
#70 ·
The complaint from the passenger was not about the heat, it was the physical presence of the pipe that pushed her foot off the foot peg. I actually find my Thruxton gives off more heat from the engine than my Street Scrambler does from the pipe. The 1200 pipe does tuck in nicely for the rider but I suspect the combination of engine heat and exhaust will make for pretty warm traffic time in summer.
 
#71 ·
Gotcha:wink2: This may be why my wife said she thought the pegs were smaller than other bikes? I’ll have to ask her when we’re on the bike together again (she’s only on about 1 out of 20 rides) if it’s only on the right that she feels like the pegs are smaller?
 
#75 ·
Let's revive a dead thread! :D

I am still unhappy with my XE's suspension. Both when riding solo and with a passenger, small bumps are fed right into my wrists and kicked into spine. So I've e-mailed the local Öhlins authorized workshop, explained my problems and mentioned the revalving that others had done.
Interestingly, they only replied that they would change the fork cartridges to ones from Andreani. Links:
AJ Cycles
Scrambler 1200 XC and Scrambler 1200 XE on the horrible Andreani Website

That raises a few questions:
1. Is Andreani a good brand? I must confess I never heard from them before. Apparently they are pretty popular with Ducatis.
2. Would changing the cartridges be the better option over revalving the stock cartridges? I don't see how that would solve the rear suspension problem, though I'm aware that front and rear suspension interact a lot.
3. I'm curious if changing the cartridges is cheaper than revalving the old ones.

Any thoughts?
 
#76 ·
After spending about 1000$ on the Ohlins shocks to have them revalved and resprung, it helped, but not to the point of making it even remotely as comfortable as my Africa Twin. I ended up resolving the issue by selling the bike, it made me appreciate my Africa Twin even more.

Andreani is a good brand (many of their cartridge kits are very similar to what Ohlins makes). The front will help the front, but it will definitely not address the sharp impacts that is transmitted to your spine, that's all on the Ohlins. And the problem is you can spend 2-3000$...and still not like the suspensions...ask me how I know. I decided to throw in the towel before losing my mind or killing my passion for motorcycling.

There's absolutely no way in hell that Triumph will leave the suspensions unchanged for 2020...and those saying they are great will realize that even Triumph knew the setup was crap...as if it was so great, it would remain unchanged.
 
#77 ·
Cloud9s made an interesting post over in another thread: Link
Interesting to see how another suspension shop confirms there are issues. Sadly sending my shocks to the US and back is not really an option, but I'll take another look for capable shops over here.
@Scrambler007: Sorry to hear you sold yours, but it's understandable with all the money and effort that went into it. It's really hard to understand how Triumph could have went with such a flawed design that lffers so little range of adjustment, instead of making it truly adjustable between sport and comfort use. I haven't heard of any changes for the 2020 nodels yet, but we'll see.
 
#79 ·
@Scrambler007: Sorry to hear you sold yours, but it's understandable with all the money and effort that went into it. It's really hard to understand how Triumph could have went with such a flawed design that lffers so little range of adjustment, instead of making it truly adjustable between sport and comfort use. I haven't heard of any changes for the 2020 nodels yet, but we'll see.
Exactly, some of the adjustments actually had ZERO effect...my suspension specialist was quite surprised to say the least. To the point where I was wondering if it wasn't just my bike that had a bad set, but then read about others too that saw no difference with some of the adjustments. A bike with that much travel and adjustability should indeed be able to accommodate most riders simply by adjusting, but in this case theres very little you can do without starting to disassemble and replace parts.

I've owned over 20 bikes and this is one of only 2 I regretted buying. Even when I had my 2015 Scrambler I was telling my friends what my ideal bike would be and on paper the XE was 99% of that. Unfortunately it turned out to be unreliable and uncomfortable and I've never been so happy to get rid of a bike while losing like 6000$ in the process...after only 3 months.
 
#81 ·
Hey guys, though most owners seem to be very pleased with their suspensions, others find them unnecessarily stiff. I've tried the settings in the book for comfort, on top of a multitude of other settings, and spending 2 hours with a suspension expert. So please, without debating the adjustments (I've gone full circle on that already), has any of you replaced the springs, oil and or valving of the rear shocks? If so, would you mind sharing your weight and the specs of the parts you replaced? I'm not expecting a Goldwing, but our roads are simply horrendous, and I want a plusher ride then what I'm experiencing now. Even compared to my friends HP4, the suspensions feel harsh.



Thanks!
At 6'4" and 270 lbs., I appreciate the Scrambler 1200 XE suspension. So far, it does what I expected. Although I'll put on handlebar risers and figure out how to lower the footpegs, I appreciate its height, ground clearance, ride, etc. I have spent thousands of $$$ over the years modifying every motorcycle I've owned to fit me. The Scrambler looks like it will require the least adaptations.

So, if it doesn't fit and work for you perfectly off the showroom floor, I say, welcome to my world. I hope that you get it tweaked and kitted best for you. But, it certainly isn't any fault of this bike, Ohlins, Showa, or Triumph.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Because of your weight, the main springs become more compliant (the ride was much more comfortable with a passenger). A 170lbs rider (which is the target most manufacturers aim for) + a 120lbs passenger, would put you at around 290lbs, just 20lbs above your weight, thats why you feel like they are ok.

I've spoken to multiple suspension shops, riders, and even Triumph customer service and have even had the shocks revalved and resprung...one thing I am 100% sure of, is that the rear shocks are not what they should have been. With the travel and adjustability it should have been quite easy to set them up for comfort, but you can't and some of the adjustments don't even have any effect at all...(this is also documented by multiple shops and riders). Glad they work for you, but if you weighed 60-80lbs less, I guarantee you'd have a very different opinion.

I can also 100% confirm that at your weight the rear is riding way too low in relation to the front (which is the opposite of what you want for good handling), it was for me and I'm 195lbs). Spend 60$ at a good suspension shop and let us know how brilliant they thought the stock shocks were (for any rider weight) :)

The only way someone might fine the suspensions ok is if they ride on really smooth roads or you're always standing on the pegs offroad or you're 250lbs+.

I've even read about a rider in the UK who hurt his neck because the bumps were being transferred through his spine to his neck...

So yeah, the bike, Ohlins and Triumph are at fault (view post bellow from another suspensions shop, pointing to Triumph/Ohlins cutting costs in the design/manufacturing of the shocks). The forks are a bit better but still not as compliant as most bikes I've owned over the years (in some cases even when they had less than half the travel). Ive ridden over 100 bikes, I have a fair bit of material to compare it to. The only bike I had that was worse was a Ducati 1100 evo, had less than half the travel and was meant as a naked sportbike...so in that case, it kind of made sens.
 
#113 ·
First of all, yes, of course I stand on my pegs in rough stuff. If people are keeping their arse on the seat in rough areas, that's the main problem.

As mentioned before, I'm 270 (+ or -) lbs. and 6'4". I've had a hip replaced and four lower back surgeries. I've been riding since I was pre-teen and my odometer just turned over to 65. I'm interested in riding a lot longer.

As for where I ride my XE, I have more miles off pavement than on. I'm in Oregon and have a near infinite amount of nearby Forest Service roads, active logging roads, and abandoned logging roads. I have not been just riding on smooth roads. I've been riding where and how the XE was designed to go.

The ergonomics (with minor tweaking), handling, and suspension of my XE works better for me than any previous bike. Over the years, I've had to spend hundreds $$ on any bike to get it to fit me. It's too bad little guys are having problems with the suspension. Maybe a motorcycle manufacturer finally built one for guys my size?
 
#84 ·
I have talked to a local authorized Öhlins workshop today. In short, this is what they told me:
1. Changing the fork cartridges to Andreanis would be around 800€ including the cartridges, dis- and reassembly. They can be ordered with different springs depending on the rider's weight.
2. Reworking the rear shocks is around 450€ in total. This includes disassembly, adjustment and new oil.
3. It is quite common for the motorcycle manufacturers to involve themselves too much in the suspension design process. They said it's common for Ducatis that the more expensive "S" versions have worse handling/suspension feeling than the regular ones (Thruxton vs. Thruxton R anyone?). They advertise Öhlins suspension, but it's all OEM and Öhlins just builds whatever the manufacturer tells them to.
4. The advantage of the "better" Öhlins components however is that they are made to be fully adjustable by a shop. They can be disassembled completely and without damage, there are official Öhlins resources like shim lists and dampening diagrams that allow a wide range of adjustments for various use cases. Cheaper suspensions are harder or impossible to modify.
5. The "secret piston modification" is likely an added hole in the piston that functions as a bypass for the oil. It decreases damping even further than a pure revalving, however my shop advised against it unless absolutely necessary as it can't be undone.

I will definitely go there at some point, I just don't have the time at the moment. It all sounds reasonable, and despite disappointing experiences from other people like Scrambler007, I still hope the suspension can be brought to a state that's worthy of the bike.
 
#85 · (Edited)
I have no doubt suspensions can be addressed, its always a matter of how much money, time and trials you are willing to put into it. You know where it starts but not where it ends. Thats why I threw 2 shops at it, 1000$ and then decided to throw in the towel. It was just easier buying a bike that has great suspensions to start with, that might just need a little adjustment instead of buying a new bike that felt like a test mule that I had to figure out. With that said, I sincerely hope you do get the suspensions to where you're happy, and can fully enjoy the bike as its intended. All I know is I will never buy another bike without trying it first. If I can't get a demo bike, the bike is simply off the list. Unfortunately it means quite a few bikes are off the list as around here demo bikes aren't a common thing. Your best chance at trying a bike is when the manufacturer makes demo rides (they cross the country with a truck full of most of their models). Last time I checked Triumph didn't even do those anymore.
 
#86 ·
I went to the Öhlins workshop today, the technician wanted to check the bike for himself. Here's some more information from what he said:
1. Dampers usually have a "shim stack" for compression and rebound damping each. It's a stack of metal discs with a 0.25 to 0.50 mm thickness that looks like a pyramid, because the discs get smaller towards the top. They function as a valve for the oil, the decreasing diameter adds progression to the damping. On the Scrambler 1200 XE, Triumph went with three spring washers and a single 2.5 mm (!) shim instead of an actual stack. There is no progression at all in that setup, he described it as a binary open/closed valve.
2. He said the adjustment range for the rear is actually okay for low speed damping. For high speed, the shortcomings of the shim "stack" come into play.
3. The fork however lacked useful compression adjustments. He said going from one end of the range to the other did not make as much difference as it should. Rebound damping has a good range, but he did not find a good combination of the two. The fork would always be too hard on rebound or it would keep moving for too long.
4. Modifying the cartridges does not seem financially worthwile to him. Since they're not from Öhlins, he has no specs on them, so the only choice would be disassemble the cartridges, see what's inside, take measurements etc. - Considering the risk of finding more unpleasant surprises in there, dropping in the Andreanis is the better option.

He will contact Öhlins and check with them if he understood the spec sheet for the dampers correctly, then I'll likely drop the bike off there soon and let them do their magic.

Here's some basic info on Shim Stacks.
 
#87 ·
Very curious to see what they will do for 2020, there's no way Triumph can be happy with the stock suspensions on an otherwise superb motorcycle. And if I were you, I'd seriously consider the option of just selling the bike to someone who is happy with it as it is. I went to a shop that had an excellent reputation, the guy works on enduros, supermortard, sport bikes, and without doing extensive work to the suspensions (outside of just revalving and springs) it would never be spectacular. You really need to ask yourself if you are willing to lose even more in the bike, considering the risk that it might still not be quite where you'd like it to be once they are done with it. I lost about 6000$ on mine when I sold it after 3 months, and its one of the best 6000$ I've lost in a motorcycle.
 
#88 ·
I had thought about waiting for such a change in the 2020 Scramblers and getting those shocks instead of modifying mine. But I doubt it'd be any cheaper, plus nobody knows when those modifications will come. I'm rather reluctant to sell mine, I already did quite a few mods on it and I generally like it. And as I chose it after quite a while of comparing bikes, I wouldn't know what else to get. The Moto Guzzi V85 TT would be a good candidate, but aside from that there's no bike I'm interested in other than Harleys, and they're too expensive and unreliable for me. I don't like the Guzzi cockpit and that brand isn't known for it's reliability either, so my motivation for a change is rather low. I'll see if I can get the XE to cooperate.
 
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