Scottoiler - yes or no? - Page 2 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Water Cooled Twins Talk Discussion of water cooled Triumph Twin related matters and topics.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 05:16 AM
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I have ordered a Pro-Oiler for mine. I did not want to go for a Scottoiler because they require their own special oil while the Pro-Oiler can go with normal motor oil, gear oil or whatever else is available. Also it makes a lot of sense to me to vary the dosage of oil based on speed rather than time or engine vacuum.
I do not agree with the opinions stated here that modern chains require only minimal maintenance. While O- and X-ring chains have semi-sealed inner lubrication, they are still mechanical parts and require lubrication. Check your owner's handbook, it explicitly states that you should allow the lubricant to soak in overnight for it to penetrate the O-rings. That makes it different from fully sealed bearings that are used in other places which are maintenance free (and eventually need to be replaced as a unit).

Aside from that: No matter which oiler you choose, you save a lot of cleaning time. The Pro-Oiler, being a total loss system, cleans the chain at the same time as lubricating it. And both motor oil and the Scotttoiler oil are much easier to remove than the grease mountains that build up inside the sprocket covers.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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"Check your owner's handbook, it explicitly states that you should allow the lubricant to soak in overnight for it to penetrate the O-rings. That makes it different from fully sealed bearings that are used in other places which are maintenance free (and eventually need to be replaced as a unit)."

Actually, the manual states :

"Apply lubricant to the sides of the
rollers then allow the motorcycle to
stand unused for at least eight hours
(overnight is ideal). This will allow the oil
to penetrate to the chain O-rings etc."

It doesn't penetrate the O rings. The manual advises you to let the bike sit for 8 hours so the oil will penetrate "TO" the O rings. ie the oil will stop outside at the O rings. Nothing gets past the O rings. There is grease sealed in by the O rings.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:25 AM
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If oil could penetrate the O rings, then the grease could exit as well. That's the argument against using WD40 as a cleaner. I know users of the Scottoiler who do not use the specified oil. They use some sort of mix of ATF and something else, can't remember. I use synthetic chain wax or Dupont Teflon. No oil. I will wipe down the chain with either some kerosene on a rag or even 30W oil and that's it. I don't put on a lot of miles per year, so I'm not as fussy as some. I just want to keep any surface rust from pitting the side plates.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetTwin View Post
"Check your owner's handbook, it explicitly states that you should allow the lubricant to soak in overnight for it to penetrate the O-rings. That makes it different from fully sealed bearings that are used in other places which are maintenance free (and eventually need to be replaced as a unit)."

Actually, the manual states :

"Apply lubricant to the sides of the
rollers then allow the motorcycle to
stand unused for at least eight hours
(overnight is ideal). This will allow the oil
to penetrate to the chain O-rings etc."

It doesn't penetrate the O rings. The manual advises you to let the bike sit for 8 hours so the oil will penetrate "TO" the O rings. ie the oil will stop outside at the O rings. Nothing gets past the O rings. There is grease sealed in by the O rings.
You are correct, I was taking a wrong turn in my thoughts there. The lubricant at the very inside of the chain should stay there as long as possible. But I still wouldn't let it run dry on the outside or rely just on spray lube, plus it's a hassle to take the can along on longer tours.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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The idea for allowing the oil to reach the O rings is to keep the rubber O ring fresh and supple so it maintains its sealing properties. The harm comes when the O ring is allowed to dry out and crack, letting the grease inside escape.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Bias View Post
I did not want to go for a Scottoiler because they require their own special oil while the Pro-Oiler can go with normal motor oil, gear oil or whatever else is available.
Ime, motor oil or gear oil are crap final-drive chain lubes, I get so much with a Scottoiler I can't remember the last time I bought some on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Bias View Post
makes a lot of sense to me to vary the dosage of oil based on speed rather than time or engine vacuum.
You misunderstand how a vacuum-operated Scottoiler works. Irrespective of what speed the bike is travelling at, either the rider constantly varies the throttle position very slightly, even unconsciously, or the fly-by-wire does to maintain a set speed; a vacuum-operated Scottoiler responds to all of these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougsfan View Post
But modern chains chains last 20K miles with minimal lubrication.
Is that all? Or is "minimal lubrication" the problem?

The oldest Scottoiler lubed chain I have has covered about 15,000 miles, the adjusters are about half-way along.

More from my pov:-

. That chain (and sprockets) are 27 years old. If I get home with a dirty/wet bike and I don't get to clean it for a while, the dirty/wet chain doesn't turn into a corroded steel bar, because the chain was being lubricated all the time up 'til I stopped the engine outside the garage.

. If I don't get to ride the bike for whatever length of time, one thing I know will still work without any attention is the final drive.

. I don't have to buy "premium" chains. While that first one was an O-ring, Fraser Scott advised that a Scottoiler would give cheap chains the same long-lived protection. Ime, he's right. Afaict, the key is the constant lubrication - chains are precision engineering, same as the bearings inside the engine; one reason we don't rebuild engines every 20,000 miles is the bearings inside it are lubricated constantly with clean oil?

. Riding long-distance, one thing I don't have to do in the evening or the morning is faff around spraying the chain. Mate O'Mine visited on his Speed Triple last summer. Jeez what a pita is lubing a chain without a centrestand - two grown men to spray most of a can of chain lube on a patio. Swmbo is still displeased.

. I've yet to replace a Scottoiler-lubed chain.

Hth.

Regards,
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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When I replaced the the OE chain and sprockets on my T100 at 29,000 mi. The chain had stretched very little but the rollers were very sloppy from ware between the inside of the roller and the outside of the bushing. The O-rings keep the lube between the pins and bushings which helps keep the chain from stretching. The rollers ride on the bushings and between the inner plates with no o-ring or other seal to hold lube in. This would be the reason to let the lube sit and seep in between the bushing and roller IMO. DuPont chain saver works great and not as messy as oil type lubes.
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartMac View Post
You misunderstand how a vacuum-operated Scottoiler works. Irrespective of what speed the bike is travelling at, either the rider constantly varies the throttle position very slightly, even unconsciously, or the fly-by-wire does to maintain a set speed; a vacuum-operated Scottoiler responds to all of these.
The manufacturer of the Pro-Oiler argues that the amount of fling-off is dependant on the chain speed, so with a non speed-dependant system there will be overlubrication at low and possibly underlubrication at high speeds. That makes sense to me and therefore is one of the reasons I prefer it over the vacuum based systems. However I didn't have the chance to compare them yet by myself, so I'm not discarding your reports of the Scottoiler V-System working well.

Also, one advantage of a vacuum based system is that it's much easier to install. The Scrambler 1200 for example does not have a dedicated speed sensor, instead the rear ABS wheel speed sensor is used to display the speed. This means that a chain oiler would either require its own sensor (the Pro-Oiler offers its own magnet and reed switch or a GPS unit) or that you will have to tap into the ABS system, adding a possible point of failure to it. I will try to add a layer of isolation between the oiler and the ABS, but I would generally recommend going with the optional magnet and reed switch, which requires a little more effort than a simple vacuum line.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 04:04 AM
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A Scotwhatever is a waste of time on modern chains.

I use ProLink.

After a ride while the chain is warm I spray a little on a cloth while I spin the wheel and wipe away the grime.

The ProLink dries off with no throw or residue.

I have never had to adjust a chain (except for sprocket changes.

Google it.

Job done.


Last edited by Tricolour; 04-10-2019 at 04:42 AM.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 04:38 AM
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I have a Scottoiler on my 17 Tiger Sport. The chain has been adjusted once in 19,000 miles. I may try a Loobman on my Speed Twin, if it ever gets delivered........
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