Intermittent stuck gear 955i 2005 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
Minitwins
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Intermittent stuck gear 955i 2005

Hi,
I have an intermittent stuck gear on my 2005 Tiger 955i and I would appreciate any ideas or diagnostic tips to help resolve this. Its happened twice. These are the symptoms:
  • If I ride around very gently I don't tend to have a problem.
  • If I accelerate a bit more quickly, but by no means harshly I find that the gear shift mechanism can get stuck somewhere at the point I change into 4th. Its possible my description is out by 1 gear as I don't tend to be making notes when it happens. The gear shift pedal will not move up or down and feels stuck solid. Both times this has happened, I've been able to get it out of this situation by releasing the clutch moderately rapidly and it has then become unstuck.
  • I fully use (or intend to at the time) the clutch for shifting. I don't do clutchless shifting, but previous owners may have.
  • I'm new to riding so my shifts aren't buttery smooth, I try my best to rev-match as best I can, but I know I don't do it well.
  • I've never had the bike "drop out of gear while accelerating". Problem occurs when shifting only.
  • When the bike is in neutral with the clutch out, it sounds a bit rougher than with the clutch in, but not a great deal. Not sure if that is normal or not.

I believe the clutch is good. I say this because I've had the outer clutch basked cleaned up by a mechanic as I had trouble getting it into neutral previously. It would jump between 1st and 2nd instead of going into neutral at a stand-still. That now seems pretty good and changing gears just seems a lot less agricultural since the clutch has been cleaned up. The stuck gear problem happened once before I got the clutch cleaned and once afterwards, so it was neither a cause or a fix.

Whilst I intend to fully pull in the clutch, its possible I didn't make it all the way, being inexperienced. Would that possibly be a cause?

I kind of get the impression that the mechanic doesn't want to deal with this problem and to be honest I'm not sure I want to hand over another wad of money with no guaranteed fix at the end of it. I'm starting to resign myself to the fact that I'm going to have to try and fix this myself. I don't have any experience fixing bikes, so opening up the engine case is a daunting prospect for me. I'm also mindful that if I screw this up, the bike could be dangerous, so I'm going to be very methodical and cautious. Were I to do this, are the suspect parts i.e. bent selector forks, worn drum etc fairly easy to identify as being "bent or worn" or can they be out by an amount not noticeable to the naked eye and still cause havoc?

Is there a way to open up the engine so that all the bits don't fall out as I do it, before I can record where they all go, like the roadrunner cartoon when the coyote's acme do-hicky blows up and all the springs fly out! What I mean is, should I lay the engine on its side or something so that the shafts stay in place by gravity. I've searched you-tube and I'm really amazed that I couldn't find a video that starts with the words "My names Derek and today I'm going to take apart my Tiger 955i engine" That would be really handy.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:35 PM
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It might be something as stupid as your clutch cable adjustment.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:30 AM
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Yup start with simple fixes as Steve suggests above - sometimes it's just an oil change...
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:46 AM
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Hmmm....?? How many miles does it have on the clock ??

Yep, I'd start with making sure the freeplay on the chain is spot on at about 45mm, and make sure you're checking this with load on the rear suspension and at the chain's tightest point, i.e. someone sitting on the bike.

Then I'd make sure the freeplay on the clutch cable is spot on, and I'd make sure I'm fully pulling the clutch in when shifting.

Both of those are critical to smooth changing on a Tiger. Once you've got all that sorted out, if it's still happening, then get back to us to investigate further.

Good luck

Safe riding.
Regards,
Graeme.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:52 PM
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I would check clutch/chain adjustment first as stated above. Gearboxes on these are really clunky anyway. Mine was difficult to get into neutral unless I did it while the bike was moving. If you're going to pull the gearbox apart a workshop manual is essential. Looking at my manual it doesn't seem like any bits would fall out, but it's a big job to get into it
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger-G View Post
  • How many miles does it have on the clock ??
  • Yep, I'd start with making sure the freeplay on the chain is spot on at about 45mm, and make sure you're checking this with load on the rear suspension and at the chain's tightest point, i.e. someone sitting on the bike.
  • Then I'd make sure the freeplay on the clutch cable is spot on, and I'd make sure I'm fully pulling the clutch in when shifting.
  • Miles - The bike has allegedly 30000 miles on it. I've no reason to doubt this as it does seem clean and well looked after.
  • Chain freeplay- Looking in the Haynes manual, it specifies to measure with the back wheel off the ground and then look for 35-40mm at the tightest spot. I would say I have 40mm-42mm all the way around with the back wheel off of the ground. I guess it depends how hard you push the chain. Do you think the book is incorrect or is there a best practice that diverges from the spec as you are quoting 45mm on the ground?
  • Clutch freeplay. This look about right. The book calls for 0.4 .. 0.8mm at the handlebar lever, before the clutch starts to actuate. I can measure 1mm in there before any notable pressure is applied, but the clutch-side lever on the other end of the cable starts to actuate minutely at about 0.6mm with no more than a very strong exhale of breath on the lever (not actually, but you get my point). Given I can let the clutch out a bit before it begins to bite, I would say that 0.2mm of "grey area" slack is probably not the cause of my issues as in theory you could shift up without using the clutch at all (Happy to be corrected on this).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
Yup start with simple fixes as Steve suggests above - sometimes it's just an oil change...
It has a brand new oil.


As a generalisation however, I can see that these things; clutch freeplay, chain freeplay and new oil are all essential ingredients for performing a good shift, but isn't my problem of a stuck gear lever some sort of catastrophic outcome that the engineering shouldn't allow and way beyond not performing a good shift? Happy to be corrected here, BTW.
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:18 AM
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Just check that freeplay again with someone sat on the bike with their full weight and get back to us. If it's tighter than a nun's chuff, go for the technique I mentioned .

As for the clutch lever.....I have very little freeplay, think it's about 8mm'ish. It's quite a stretch for the hand on the Tiger clutch, unless of course you have hands like shovels ??

You may have a genuine issue with the bike sticking in gear, but it's best to go through the basics first before taking the gearbox apart
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Safe riding.
Regards,
Graeme.

Last edited by Tiger-G; 11-18-2018 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Chain tension

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger-G View Post
Just check that freeplay again with someone sat on the bike with their full weight and get back to us. If it's tighter than a nun's chuff, go for the technique I mentioned .
I'm starting to think you're right here. When I put my weight on the bike, the chain is taught. With a strong push, I can maybe flex the chain by 1cm top to bottom and that isn't the sort of easy slack like when on a stand. The chain doesn't really want to flex. Its possible the chain might go even tighter if I was going over a bump. I think I'll go and get a ratchet strap and try and see what movement over the range of suspension travel does to the chain tightness.

I've found in a few other threads that say the manual may be incorrect and is too tight. Also the manual is a bit vague about whether it should be on the main or center stand when doing the measurement. I found some other threads that made that comment too.

I've searched around for how tight the chain should be when you are sat on it, and how you measure that tightness (hanging a weight on it for example), but I haven't found a lot. How much slack is in your chain when sat on it? Also, is it easy to move the chain over that travel, or does it require a good push?
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:56 AM
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I think if you can move it easily up and down about an inch (25mm) when you're sitting on it you're good to go.

When it's on the side stand give the chain a shove upwards at the swing arm weld and that's where you want to measure the travel. With a little practice you can tell just looking at the bike: some bow in the chain is good, too droopy is no good and too tight is not good at all.

Last edited by Steve Ford; 11-18-2018 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconStorm View Post
I'm starting to think you're right here. When I put my weight on the bike, the chain is taught. With a strong push, I can maybe flex the chain by 1cm top to bottom and that isn't the sort of easy slack like when on a stand. The chain doesn't really want to flex. Its possible the chain might go even tighter if I was going over a bump. I think I'll go and get a ratchet strap and try and see what movement over the range of suspension travel does to the chain tightness.

I've found in a few other threads that say the manual may be incorrect and is too tight. Also the manual is a bit vague about whether it should be on the main or center stand when doing the measurement. I found some other threads that made that comment too.

I've searched around for how tight the chain should be when you are sat on it, and how you measure that tightness (hanging a weight on it for example), but I haven't found a lot. How much slack is in your chain when sat on it? Also, is it easy to move the chain over that travel, or does it require a good push?
Good stuff, best you see for yourself how compressing the suspension affects chain tightness. And you're right about it going even tighter over a bump under load, do that at the chain's tightest point and hey-presto..... ping !! you have a very warm, frothy red left leg !!

Steve know's his stuff so somewhere between where he's saying and where I'm saying usually does the trick. It's down to personal preference

Safe riding.
Regards,
Graeme.
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