Yes or No to ABS - Page 5 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Thunderbird Cruiser Chat Cruiser chat for the the Thunderbird twin

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-12-2011, 06:27 PM
Site Supporter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: 2014 Scram "The Crow"
Premium Member
 
Draeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 599
Other Motorcycle: 98 Honda Valkyrie
Garage
Qball62,

Interesting observation on the two bikes issue. Never thought about it, but I would probably prefer the same ABS / Non on both bikes too.

Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app

What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Draeger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-12-2011, 11:47 PM
Site Supporter
Grand Prix 500
Main Motorcycle: 2013 Speed Triple ABS
Lifetime Premium
 
qball62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Lawn, PA
Posts: 121
Other Motorcycle: '11 Thunderbird Storm
Extra Motorcycle: '98 TBird 900
Send a message via Yahoo to qball62 Send a message via Skype™ to qball62
Oldgreybull and Draeger,

Thanks!

Bottom line is ABS is a wonderful tool to add to the safety toolbox. Technology is an awesome thing, but may not always be the best choice based on your individual situation.

Experience, practice, and lessons learned over the course of a lifetime are always the ultimate tool. With or w/out ABS, the ultimate safety items are what you've placed in the toolbox between your ears.
qball62 is offline  
post #43 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 01:03 AM
Minitwins
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer Lake, Colorado
Posts: 12
Other Motorcycle: BMW F650GS
Interesting video...abs vs non-abs comparison

jjd996 is offline  
 
post #44 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 01:19 AM
Site Supporter
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 2010 Thunderbird 1600
Lifetime Premium
 
oldgreybull's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NC and FL, USA
Posts: 243
Other Motorcycle: 2002 Suzuki Volusia
That's a great video demonstrating that ABS can indeed be effective. I guess the ultimate safety feature would be ABS plus the outrigger training wheels - then you'd really have something to try out in the rain or on ice!
I'll stick to my wife's Suburu Forester with AWD and ABS when it gets nasty - love the heated seats!

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
oldgreybull is offline  
post #45 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: 1700 Thunderbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: pine grove, PA
Posts: 442
Not very interesting or a fair test.
two different bikes for one with one rider showing his lack of judgement and skid controll by simply and purpously locking the rear brake first and intentionally staying with it locked.

I think this statement left in the comment section says it best-

"You dont seem to get the bias in this video. Lets just squeeze the lever like a tard and call ABS better"
paulfun is offline  
post #46 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 11:16 AM
SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: 2011 Tbird
Senior Member
 
BMK9251's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,795
Other Motorcycle: 2011 Tbird
Extra Motorcycle: 2011 Tbird
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfun View Post
"You dont seem to get the bias in this video. Lets just squeeze the lever like a tard and call ABS better"
It is not too difficult to understand that ABS technology is far superior to standard hydraulic braking systems. Not just better. This is a proven fact and is undisputed. At the advent of ABS technology, literally millions of dollars were spent testing and improving the systems by multiple global automotive braking suppliers before release into the automotive sector.

ABS is the best braking system out there today. I believe it should be mandated by the government as standard equipment on all vehicles.
BMK9251 is offline  
post #47 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 06:11 PM
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: 1700 Thunderbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: pine grove, PA
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMK9251 View Post
It is not too difficult to understand that ABS technology is far superior to standard hydraulic braking systems. Not just better. This is a proven fact and is undisputed. At the advent of ABS technology, literally millions of dollars were spent testing and improving the systems by multiple global automotive braking suppliers before release into the automotive sector.

ABS is the best braking system out there today. I believe it should be mandated by the government as standard equipment on all vehicles.
If its not so difficult to understand, then why did it leave me get into the middle of an intersection that on any of my NON_ABS bikes I would have been able to get the bike stopped before the intersection?

Please explain why I can get all of my other bikes to stop faster than My thunderbird wich has ABS?


I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's when my friend got himself a corvette with ABS. I had gotten a new dodge and he tried for months to get me to panic stop and lock the brakes up in it so he could prove how superior the ABS was. To this day the wheels in that car have not been locked under braking ! But the tires on his vette have when the ABS failed, GO Figure!
paulfun is offline  
post #48 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 10:03 PM
Grand Prix 250
Main Motorcycle: 2010 Triumph Thunderbird
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vancouver BC/ Palm Desert CA
Posts: 48
I bought my bike used and it came with ABS so it wasn't a decision I had to make. I guess I had almost forgotten that I had ABS until a ride in Joshua Tree Park a couple of weeks ago when a coyote suddenly appeared on the side of the road, hesitated and then bolted across the road. I saw him and when he hesitated I stupidly eased of the brakes which meant I really had to jump on them when he bolted about 40 yards in front of me. I was doing about 50 mph and the ABS did it's thing really well bringing me to relatively smooth emergency stop missing the coyote by about 20 feet. No major drama other than a required underwear change .....

ABS - I am now a believer!
herbkell is offline  
post #49 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 01:01 AM
Site Supporter
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 2010 Thunderbird 1600
Lifetime Premium
 
oldgreybull's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NC and FL, USA
Posts: 243
Other Motorcycle: 2002 Suzuki Volusia
Oh my, I sense this is quickly becoming a quasi religious argument - "best thing since sliced bread" vs. "wouldn't have it if you gave it to me"!
No argument from me about ABS being excellent technology, not sure I'd go so far as suggesting a government mandate... Once you go down that road it's a slippery slope before you can only buy and legally ride what "the goverment" mandates the dealer can provide. Bye, bye, any customization - bye, bye, performance mods - bye, bye, changing tire brands. We'll all be back in crash tested cages with seat belts and shoulder harnesses - they are safer you know...

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
oldgreybull is offline  
post #50 of 71 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 04:05 AM
Newbie
Main Motorcycle: PTW
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 4
Hi Guys, I'm a blow in that's been watching this discussion since it started. I have a very active interest in bike ABS and especially the discussion that rages about it the world over.

There are studies like the one the NHTSA keeps putting out claiming that 37% of lives will be saved if all bikes had ABS. This is a truly flawed study that wouldn't pass muster at a stats 101 class assignment. What they've done is the equivalent of "most people die in their sleep, therefore sleeping is dangerous". That's really disappointing because some truthful information about ABS's benefits would be refreshing.

There is A LOT of cynical information about bike ABS on both sides of the fence - and it does become almost like a religious discussion at times. What to believe?!!?!



ABS is often sold as a life saving bit of kit (especially by the BOSCH lobby group who have been masters at creating a market for their unit behind the scenes), so you'd think that you could take a second look at MAIDS or HURT studies and easily put your finger on some large proportion of lives that would have been saved if they had had ABS... but you can't.

The HURT study in particular and the MAIDS study in part, point to braking errors leading up to fatal collisions, but these aren't errors that ABS will fix. The most common error was over reliance on the rear brake - the brake with the least stopping power. This clearly points to a skills issue. You still need to know how to brake well to get the most out of your brakes - ABS wont do that for you. The "snap on and let the ABS deal with it" mentality is a potentially dangerous one.

If you commit the cardinal sin of a rear brake panic stomp for example, then your ABS'd braking distance is going to be MORE than if you had conducted a controlled skillful emergency brake with the rear only. Even a panic front brake grab with ABS firing will end up with a longer braking distance than a controlled emergency brake. It's not a panacea.

Many people bring their carcentric ABS understanding to bikes and off handedly state how good it will be and how much safer it will make bikes... but that is not assured at all - especially if you risk compensate and take more risks. Speaking of which, have cars stopped crashing



So should you get it or not? Well that really depends on how you ride, what kind of ABS system it is and what the triggers are.

If your braking skills are poor and the panic grab "leave it to ABS" is a step up from what you could do or be bothered doing on your own steam, then get ABS but practice often to get used to it. I'd also expect you're not a "knee down" type of rider in that case.

If you ride often in the wet but not in the dirt, then it's pretty hard to argue against it no matter how the ABS is configured.

As for systems, the new bikes are all pretty much zeroing on the bosch unit, but use different logic like wheel deceleration, linked wheel braking management, wheel speed difference trigger, zero wheel speed trigger, anti stoppie intelligent systems, some combination of these...

If you're a late hard down hill twisties kind of rider, or like some down hill dirt, you might want to avoid an anti stoppie intelligence type of ABS... otherwise you'll find your front brakes coming off when you need them the most. Not much fun!


The current crop of sports bikes are getting some stonking ABS systems, but they can be pretty complex as a result meaning that repair costs are significantly higher after a prang. In Australia, there's some anecdotal evidence that ABS'd bike are being written off simply because the complexities of ABS system repair. When everyone has ABS, what do you think that's going to do to insurance premiums?


Clear as mud?

For the record, I'm against mandated ABS. It should be an option and it should be switchable, and I'm absolutely pro rider skills, defensive roadcraft and regular braking practice. Interesting stuff hey?
robsalvv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
All posts must adhere to Forum Rules

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome