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Qball62,

Interesting observation on the two bikes issue. Never thought about it, but I would probably prefer the same ABS / Non on both bikes too.

Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app
 

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Oldgreybull and Draeger,

Thanks!

Bottom line is ABS is a wonderful tool to add to the safety toolbox. Technology is an awesome thing, but may not always be the best choice based on your individual situation.

Experience, practice, and lessons learned over the course of a lifetime are always the ultimate tool. With or w/out ABS, the ultimate safety items are what you've placed in the toolbox between your ears.
 

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That's a great video demonstrating that ABS can indeed be effective. I guess the ultimate safety feature would be ABS plus the outrigger training wheels - then you'd really have something to try out in the rain or on ice!
I'll stick to my wife's Suburu Forester with AWD and ABS when it gets nasty - love the heated seats!
 

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Not very interesting or a fair test.
two different bikes for one with one rider showing his lack of judgement and skid controll by simply and purpously locking the rear brake first and intentionally staying with it locked.

I think this statement left in the comment section says it best-

"You dont seem to get the bias in this video. Lets just squeeze the lever like a tard and call ABS better"
 

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"You dont seem to get the bias in this video. Lets just squeeze the lever like a tard and call ABS better"
It is not too difficult to understand that ABS technology is far superior to standard hydraulic braking systems. Not just better. This is a proven fact and is undisputed. At the advent of ABS technology, literally millions of dollars were spent testing and improving the systems by multiple global automotive braking suppliers before release into the automotive sector.

ABS is the best braking system out there today. I believe it should be mandated by the government as standard equipment on all vehicles.
 

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It is not too difficult to understand that ABS technology is far superior to standard hydraulic braking systems. Not just better. This is a proven fact and is undisputed. At the advent of ABS technology, literally millions of dollars were spent testing and improving the systems by multiple global automotive braking suppliers before release into the automotive sector.

ABS is the best braking system out there today. I believe it should be mandated by the government as standard equipment on all vehicles.
If its not so difficult to understand, then why did it leave me get into the middle of an intersection that on any of my NON_ABS bikes I would have been able to get the bike stopped before the intersection?

Please explain why I can get all of my other bikes to stop faster than My thunderbird wich has ABS?


I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's when my friend got himself a corvette with ABS. I had gotten a new dodge and he tried for months to get me to panic stop and lock the brakes up in it so he could prove how superior the ABS was. To this day the wheels in that car have not been locked under braking ! But the tires on his vette have when the ABS failed, GO Figure!
 

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I bought my bike used and it came with ABS so it wasn't a decision I had to make. I guess I had almost forgotten that I had ABS until a ride in Joshua Tree Park a couple of weeks ago when a coyote suddenly appeared on the side of the road, hesitated and then bolted across the road. I saw him and when he hesitated I stupidly eased of the brakes which meant I really had to jump on them when he bolted about 40 yards in front of me. I was doing about 50 mph and the ABS did it's thing really well bringing me to relatively smooth emergency stop missing the coyote by about 20 feet. No major drama other than a required underwear change .....

ABS - I am now a believer!
 

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Oh my, I sense this is quickly becoming a quasi religious argument - "best thing since sliced bread" vs. "wouldn't have it if you gave it to me"!
No argument from me about ABS being excellent technology, not sure I'd go so far as suggesting a government mandate... Once you go down that road it's a slippery slope before you can only buy and legally ride what "the goverment" mandates the dealer can provide. Bye, bye, any customization - bye, bye, performance mods - bye, bye, changing tire brands. We'll all be back in crash tested cages with seat belts and shoulder harnesses - they are safer you know...
:Fencing
 

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Hi Guys, I'm a blow in that's been watching this discussion since it started. I have a very active interest in bike ABS and especially the discussion that rages about it the world over.

There are studies like the one the NHTSA keeps putting out claiming that 37% of lives will be saved if all bikes had ABS. This is a truly flawed study that wouldn't pass muster at a stats 101 class assignment. What they've done is the equivalent of "most people die in their sleep, therefore sleeping is dangerous". That's really disappointing because some truthful information about ABS's benefits would be refreshing.

There is A LOT of cynical information about bike ABS on both sides of the fence - and it does become almost like a religious discussion at times. What to believe?!!?!



ABS is often sold as a life saving bit of kit (especially by the BOSCH lobby group who have been masters at creating a market for their unit behind the scenes), so you'd think that you could take a second look at MAIDS or HURT studies and easily put your finger on some large proportion of lives that would have been saved if they had had ABS... but you can't.

The HURT study in particular and the MAIDS study in part, point to braking errors leading up to fatal collisions, but these aren't errors that ABS will fix. The most common error was over reliance on the rear brake - the brake with the least stopping power. This clearly points to a skills issue. You still need to know how to brake well to get the most out of your brakes - ABS wont do that for you. The "snap on and let the ABS deal with it" mentality is a potentially dangerous one.

If you commit the cardinal sin of a rear brake panic stomp for example, then your ABS'd braking distance is going to be MORE than if you had conducted a controlled skillful emergency brake with the rear only. Even a panic front brake grab with ABS firing will end up with a longer braking distance than a controlled emergency brake. It's not a panacea.

Many people bring their carcentric ABS understanding to bikes and off handedly state how good it will be and how much safer it will make bikes... but that is not assured at all - especially if you risk compensate and take more risks. Speaking of which, have cars stopped crashing



So should you get it or not? Well that really depends on how you ride, what kind of ABS system it is and what the triggers are.

If your braking skills are poor and the panic grab "leave it to ABS" is a step up from what you could do or be bothered doing on your own steam, then get ABS but practice often to get used to it. I'd also expect you're not a "knee down" type of rider in that case.

If you ride often in the wet but not in the dirt, then it's pretty hard to argue against it no matter how the ABS is configured.

As for systems, the new bikes are all pretty much zeroing on the bosch unit, but use different logic like wheel deceleration, linked wheel braking management, wheel speed difference trigger, zero wheel speed trigger, anti stoppie intelligent systems, some combination of these...

If you're a late hard down hill twisties kind of rider, or like some down hill dirt, you might want to avoid an anti stoppie intelligence type of ABS... otherwise you'll find your front brakes coming off when you need them the most. Not much fun!


The current crop of sports bikes are getting some stonking ABS systems, but they can be pretty complex as a result meaning that repair costs are significantly higher after a prang. In Australia, there's some anecdotal evidence that ABS'd bike are being written off simply because the complexities of ABS system repair. When everyone has ABS, what do you think that's going to do to insurance premiums?


Clear as mud?

For the record, I'm against mandated ABS. It should be an option and it should be switchable, and I'm absolutely pro rider skills, defensive roadcraft and regular braking practice. Interesting stuff hey? :)
 

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robsalvv,

Very well said - I like how you've thought it through and agree with you that it really is always about rider skill, practice and control.

The whole idea of 'mandating' ABS (or anything else) really grates on me. Let those who ride decide.

Draeger
 

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Thanks Gents, however my articulation lacked quite a bit on a second reading. Oh well.

Have you guys caught up on the lawsuit against Harley Davidson? The injured pillion is suing HD because her and her hubby rider believed the bike had ABS due to the ABS status icon on the tacho and them believing that the salesman said it had ABS... the icon however, never lit up on start up and the user manual describes clearly that if the bike was fitted with ABS, the status light would light up on start up. Seems as though they never read the manual.

As I understand it, the rider had to suddenly brake due to traffic build up, stomped on the rear brake and without ABS, got into a skid and the bike crashed into a slide which lead to serious injuries. They're blaming a lack of ABS for the crash. For a rider to even follow this kind of thinking, means that their assumptions would have to have been that if you have ABS you can brake any old way and the ABS will take care of it and there wouldn't have been a crash. WRONG!! ABS will stop the wheel from skidding, that is all and a panic stomp on the rear will end up with a longer braking distance than a controlled brake. Whose to say that even if they had ABS they would have avoided a crash? Longer braking distance and all means they very likely might have crashed while upright. Who would be to blame then?

Apparently they had the bike for 15 months without twigging that it didn't have ABS. Hello?? McFly?!

The rider went for the rear - why didn't the rider brake with the front brake? Lack of skill seems to be the only answer to my mind. The rider's lack of skill and lack of riding awareness was the root cause for the crash, not a lack of ABS.


I suppose this rider represents the perfect double blind single data point - riding around like he had ABS when he actually didn't, and it caught him out. Is he the clear example of risk compensation? It sounds like he didn't even take his bike somewhere to practice what this new kind of braking felt like. To me that's negligent. (He would have found out quick smart whether he had ABS or not if he had!) Hypothetically speaking, I wonder whether he put off a skills course thinking he didn't need it because he had ABS?? God knows...


Anyway, mandatory ABS is coming to European compliant bikes from 2016. Right now the argument is whether it's from 50cc up or 125cc up. The manufacturers wanted to go with combined braking systems for small bikes because of the cost disadvantage of ABS on budget bikes... the EU parliament said nope, ABS all the way. The bottom end of the market is underpinning the entire European manufacturing market. If they have to add ABS, cost savings will have to come from somewhere or the price sensitive market will falter... where are those savings going to come from? What's the bet bikes will be fitted with the cheapest and least sophisticated ABS to keep the costs down... or there'll be a drop in quality - or a bit of A and a bit of B. I predict history will eventually show up the folly of this decision.
 

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robsalvv,

The whole idea of 'mandating' ABS (or anything else) really grates on me. Let those who ride decide.

Draeger
Agreed, but as the demand increases, at some point it becomes cheaper for the manufacturer to fit all bikes, or all bike of a certain model, with ABS.
 

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The necessity of abs depends on the type of rider. My wife (who dosnt ride) is the kind of person that freezes or locks up in situations. I am not. abs would help her (and has) but would not help me. in my Pickup, I can stop fairley quickly, but it seems that without the abs, I could stop sooner, modulating the brakes just below the point of skidding the wheels. also, on my older pickup, the abs went crazy, locking the brakes randomly.
cliff
 

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Went riding with the local RAT group today and had a close encounter with several deer. One jumped out right in front of me and I hit the brakes hard. A second one jumped in front of me but by then I was riding very slowly. Personally, I'm glad I had ABS. I don't consider myself a highly skilled rider (been riding about 6 years) so who knows what would have happened without the ABS. It may not be for everyone one, but it is for me. That's the closest I've ever come to having venison on New Year's Day.
 

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Scary! Glad you're OK - I worry about the critters when I ride up here in the mountains (I'm off MM 226 of the BRP). How did your bike react? Smooth stopping or was there "chatter"? Was anyone behind your? Again, it's a constant concern of mine up here.
 

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Scary! Glad you're OK - I worry about the critters when I ride up here in the mountains (I'm off MM 226 of the BRP). How did your bike react? Smooth stopping or was there "chatter"? Was anyone behind your? Again, it's a constant concern of mine up here.
I didn't completely slam on the brakes because there were bikes behind me and I felt that the deer was crossing far enough ahead of me that I didn't need to come to a complete stop. I probably went from 45 mph to 10 very quickly and very smoothly. I really could't feel the ABS like I could on my old Road King so I can't be sure it activated. But the bike did handle great. The deer crossed about 10 feet in front of me but I was down to 10 mph by then.
 

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Anyway, mandatory ABS is coming to European compliant bikes from 2016. Right now the argument is whether it's from 50cc up or 125cc up. The manufacturers wanted to go with combined braking systems for small bikes because of the cost disadvantage of ABS on budget bikes... the EU parliament said nope, ABS all the way. The bottom end of the market is underpinning the entire European manufacturing market. If they have to add ABS, cost savings will have to come from somewhere or the price sensitive market will falter... where are those savings going to come from? What's the bet bikes will be fitted with the cheapest and least sophisticated ABS to keep the costs down... or there'll be a drop in quality - or a bit of A and a bit of B. I predict history will eventually show up the folly of this decision.
HA! They said that about the cost of adding the Turbo Encabulator and now they are everywhere....
 
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