[H3CT1C]

@H3CT1C I seem to have cut out the wire that was the kill switch. I know that it is a normally closed switch but looking at my harness I dont see what the switch broke or where it went....

Oh God! It's been six years since I TOTALLY re-wired my bike with the m-Unit (which doesn't need a kill switch -- double tap the START button to kill the engine...), so my advice may not be that great :^)

Have a look at the plug for the alram on your bike (under the saddle) -- there's a dummy plug plugged into it with a whole bunch of black wires running in loops back into itself -- if there is a link from pin #1 to pin #2, then yes -- the kill switch cuts the +12V supply (RED off the GREEN/RED) to the coils...

The diagram in post #7 bears me out: the kill switch is inline from the switched +12V from the ignition switch to pin#2 on the igniter -- so in this model pressing the kill switch opens the circuit and drops power from the igniter, pretty darned effective I'd say...

Tim

 

[marshallsmith27]

@sonsothunder I thought that too but I have an old wiring harness that I messed up last year that is still mostly intact and it doesn't seem to make its way to the ignition switch. But then again I cant really tell because it was slightly modified.... How are you coming along on your bike?

@H3CT1C I dont have a dummy connector anymore. My wiring harness is barebones now. I did keep the fusebox though. I remember putting tape on the kill switch wires to make sure I didn't cut them out but it looks like I did anyway. I guess it's not too big of a deal I will just put a switch inline between the green/red wire and the red coil wires! thats no different than unplugging the coils. I just wanted to know if there was a more accepted way about doing it.

 

[sonsothunder]

@sonsothunder I thought that too but I have an old wiring harness that I messed up last year that is still mostly intact and it doesn't seem to make its way to the ignition switch. But then again I cant really tell because it was slightly modified.... How are you coming along on your bike?

@H3CT1C I dont have a dummy connector anymore. My wiring harness is barebones now. I did keep the fusebox though. I remember putting tape on the kill switch wires to make sure I didn't cut them out but it looks like I did anyway. I guess it's not too big of a deal I will just put a switch inline between the green/red wire and the red coil wires! thats no different than unplugging the coils. I just wanted to know if there was a more accepted way about doing it.

Thanks to you guys, and @H3CT1C 'S Pinout diagram I now have power to my coil - but, still nothing to the spark plugs. Everything checks out GOOD on the resistance tests as does an extra coil I have on another *01 Bonnie- Unfortunately, that bike isn't currently running either and I bought it that way as a project- So, I have no idea if that coil is actually good either-but, if it is, it also doesn't fire the plugs when substituted.

 

[sonsothunder]

@sonsothunder I thought that too but I have an old wiring harness that I messed up last year that is still mostly intact and it doesn't seem to make its way to the ignition switch. But then again I cant really tell because it was slightly modified.... How are you coming along on your bike?

@H3CT1C I dont have a dummy connector anymore. My wiring harness is barebones now. I did keep the fusebox though. I remember putting tape on the kill switch wires to make sure I didn't cut them out but it looks like I did anyway. I guess it's not too big of a deal I will just put a switch inline between the green/red wire and the red coil wires! thats no different than unplugging the coils. I just wanted to know if there was a more accepted way about doing it.

In my case- hoping I'm understanding as you said, marshallsmith27 the kill switch being normally a closed circuit, by jumping Green wire to the Green and Red wire at the connector ( as I don't yet have a kill switch or any handlebar controls ) it gave me power to the + side of the coil.Do either of you or @H3CT1C know if there should be power on both the - & + sides of the coil with the ignition switch to on? Also, with a test light on the neg side of Coil I do have pulsation while spinning engine- Although, constant power when it's NOT Pulsing. Any help would be appreciated- I ordered a Nology coil- but, somehow have my doubts it's going to be the culprit.

 

[H3CT1C]

Don't worry about the kill switch yet - let's be methodical here: can you check you have the following wired up correctly?
All you need to produce a spark is the following:
a) a wire running +12V from ignition switch to the positve (IIRC right hand terminal) of the ignition coil (under the tank)
b) a wire spliced into the above running to pin#2 on the igniter to power it (i.e. "ignition on" gives +12V to coil & CDI/igniter)
c) pin #1 of the CDI/igniter to earth
d) pins #9 & #10 on the igniter must be earthed (or you must fully re-instate the "safety" circuit). If #9 & #10 aren't earthed - NO SPARK!
e) pin#8 (a YELLOW/BLACK wire when it left the factory) on the igniter to the negative terminal of the ignition coil
f) pin#5 - a PINK/BLACK wire in the factory wiring is a shared gound for both i) the PINK/BLUE wire on the pick-up coil (under the alternator cover) & ii) the PINK/BLACK wire on the throttle position sensor
g) pin#4 is a PINK wire going to the TPS (+5V)
h) pin#6 is a BLUE/WHITE wire running to the pick-up coil (positive)
i) pin#17 is a GREEN/YELLOW wire running to the TPS (signal)

The TPS doesn't need to be connected -- the igniter will automatically default to a fully advanced ignition map if no TPS is detected. As I think has already been mentioned, many people prefer to run their bikes this way...

Think of the "spark" circuit and "start" circuit as separate entities...

SPARK - When the lobes on the flywheel pass under the pick-up coil (under the alternator cover), a signal is sent to the CDI/igniter which breaks the earth to pin#8 which collapses the magnetic field in the ignition coil causing a spark.

START - Forchetto's brilliant post is invaluable. Hold the solenoid in your hand so the threaded posts are in front and the tab terminals are at the back. From the starter switch to the back left terminal on solenoid, back right tab terminal to earth (2.5mm2 wire is fine for both of these). If, instead of running this wire to earth you splice it into the wire from the neutral switch to the idiot lights, the starter can only engage when the bike is in neutral -- a simple but effective "safety" circuit that does away with the need for the prone-to-failure clutch and sidestand switches! Battery positive -> front left threaded post & front right threaded post -> starter motor --- both with VERY thick wire!!! Hitting the start button trips the circuit in the solenoid thereby allowing a small button to pass loads of juice to the chunky starter motor

Tim

 

[sonsothunder]

Yes, so far I have all that checked and wired correctly which got me fire to the Coil- I have a Nology Profire coil on the way- hopefully that will do the trick. Thanks for all your help.

 

[marshallsmith27]

sorry for the disappearing act. I FINALLY got my wiring done. I have some other stuff going on too thats kept me too busy. I am REALLY interested in the those coil you ordered! your bike only has one coil right? mine has two and has two wires from the igniter to each coil and the red wire to the coil spilts to feed each coil

 

[marshallsmith27]

I still havent installed a kill switch yet though but I guess I'm going to do what yall are saying to add one

 

[sonsothunder]

sorry for the disappearing act. I FINALLY got my wiring done. I have some other stuff going on too thats kept me too busy. I am REALLY interested in the those coil you ordered! your bike only has one coil right? mine has two and has two wires from the igniter to each coil and the red wire to the coil spilts to feed each coil

Yes they have the Dual or Single posts.

 

[sonsothunder]

Now I have to order some wires to go with the new Coil- probably go ahead and order a pickup coil while I'm at it. With the Nology Profire hooked up and double checking the grounds and pin out mapping suggested by @H3CT1C I still don't have spark - ( I still don't know if I'm supposed have 12 volts on the Yellow and Black wire with the ignition switched on but I do) I would assume the Pickup Coil AND Igniter are working correctly as, though the constant 12v on the - Y/B side of the Coil remains lit my test light DOES pulsate( When Spinning Engine) sort of like a Noid light I used on injectors back in my Chevy days. Seeing as I have a total of 3 - Bonnevilles of the same Carbed era, the extra parts will definitely not go to waste when I do figure this Bobber out.

 

[sonsothunder]

Now I have to order some wires to go with the new Coil- probably go ahead and order a pickup coil while I'm at it. With the Nology Profire hooked up and double checking the grounds and pin out mapping suggested by @H3CT1C I still don't have spark - ( I still don't know if I'm supposed have 12 volts on the Yellow and Black wire with the ignition switched on but I do) I would assume the Pickup Coil AND Igniter are working correctly as, though the constant 12v on the - Y/B side of the Coil remains lit my test light DOES pulsate( When Spinning Engine) sort of like a Noid light I used on injectors back in my Chevy days. Seeing as I have a total of 3 - Bonnevilles of the same Carbed era, the extra parts will definitely not go to waste when I do figure this Bobber out.

What I do NOT SEEM to have is fire going from the White and Blue wire from the CDI/Igniter pin #6 running to the PickUp Coil- off-on or spinning.
I think this is the set-up for your bike,
marshallsmith27 but looks like you have to buy 2 of them at double the cost.

Nology ProFire High Performance Ignition Coils CARBURETED TRIUMPH | NewBonneville

Nology ProFire High Performance Ignition Coil for the Carbureted Triumph Bonneville / Thruxton / Scrambler / America & Speedmaster Increases power by providing spark voltage in excess of 45,000 volts over the entire RPM range – no drop-off at high RPMs! Quickest rise time plus extra-high storage...

newbonneville.com

 

[sonsothunder]

What I do NOT SEEM to have is fire going from the White and Blue wire from the CDI/Igniter pin #6 running to the PickUp Coil- off-on or spinning.
I think this is the set-up for your bike,
marshallsmith27 but looks like you have to buy 2 of them at double the cost.

Nology ProFire High Performance Ignition Coils CARBURETED TRIUMPH | NewBonneville

Nology ProFire High Performance Ignition Coil for the Carbureted Triumph Bonneville / Thruxton / Scrambler / America & Speedmaster Increases power by providing spark voltage in excess of 45,000 volts over the entire RPM range – no drop-off at high RPMs! Quickest rise time plus extra-high storage...

newbonneville.com

UPDATE! After splicing in an otherwise redundant ground to the #5 Pin on the igniter I not only got SPARK - but with a little splash of Carb Cleaner the Bike fired up for the first time since I've had it! Unless anyone knows why I shouldn't be able to just keep that ground wire tapped in to the #5 Pin out - I'll finally be actually building a wiring harness now.Thanks, @H3CT1C , and @marshallsmith27 for all your help.

 

[H3CT1C]

UPDATE! After splicing in an otherwise redundant ground to the #5 Pin on the igniter I not only got SPARK - but with a little splash of Carb Cleaner the Bike fired up for the first time since I've had it! Unless anyone knows why I shouldn't be able to just keep that ground wire tapped in to the #5 Pin out - I'll finally be actually building a wiring harness now.

OK... that's officially odd...

So if I've understood correctly, you had a wire going from pin #5 -- External Sensor GND (Load Sensor & Timing Pickup) -- to the PINK/BLACK of the TPS and the PINK/BLUE of the pick-up coil, and you had no spark; but now you've extended the wire from pin#5 to earth (and left the PINK/BLACK of the TPS and the PINK/BLUE of the pick-up coil connected) - and now everything's fine?

That suggests to me that internally on the igniter the earth supplied to pin#5 is broken and you've "fixed" the problem by supplying an alternative earth (all of my knowledge of the igniter ultimately stems from Triumph Twin Power's page...). I'd say if it runs like that, leave it...

I'm sorry if this seems a bit cheeky, but this means one of three things:

1. the plug/socket on the igniter is faulty
2. the igniter is in the process of packing up entirely and your failed pin#5 earth may be symptomatic of iminent total igniter failure
3. the one weak component in your igniter has failed and she'll be good to go for the next twenty years ... or not ...

... one of my famous "this'll get me home and will do for now" fixes gave up last weekend ... after eleven years ... so you might get lucky ...

If you've modified the bike, or are intending to, dropping Mike at Triumph Twin Power a line with a list of mods wouldn't be a bad idea -- he'll have a great map for one of his Firestarter igniters. Or, I can let you have a map which I use that was developed on the the German Thruxton forum for the Czech Ignitech CDI (appx €140 for the unit + Triumph "plug and play" harness adapter -- exluding VAT/sales tax & shipping ... it comes with a fully functional map, but I prefer the German one).

Tim

 

[sonsothunder]

OK... that's officially odd...

So if I've understood correctly, you had a wire going from pin #5 -- External Sensor GND (Load Sensor & Timing Pickup) -- to the PINK/BLACK of the TPS and the PINK/BLUE of the pick-up coil, and you had no spark; but now you've extended the wire from pin#5 to earth (and left the PINK/BLACK of the TPS and the PINK/BLUE of the pick-up coil connected) - and now everything's fine?

That suggests to me that internally on the igniter the earth supplied to pin#5 is broken and you've "fixed" the problem by supplying an alternative earth (all of my knowledge of the igniter ultimately stems from Triumph Twin Power's page...). I'd say if it runs like that, leave it...

I'm sorry if this seems a bit cheeky, but this means one of three things:

1. the plug/socket on the igniter is faulty
2. the igniter is in the process of packing up entirely and your failed pin#5 earth may be symptomatic of iminent total igniter failure
3. the one weak component in your igniter has failed and she'll be good to go for the next twenty years ... or not ...

... one of my famous "this'll get me home and will do for now" fixes gave up last weekend ... after eleven years ... so you might get lucky ...

If you've modified the bike, or are intending to, dropping Mike at Triumph Twin Power a line with a list of mods wouldn't be a bad idea -- he'll have a great map for one of his Firestarter igniters. Or, I can let you have a map which I use that was developed on the the German Thruxton forum for the Czech Ignitech CDI (appx €140 for the unit + Triumph "plug and play" harness adapter -- exluding VAT/sales tax & shipping ... it comes with a fully functional map, but I prefer the German one).

Tim

It was a little strange as I got continuity from the #5 pinout through both the pickup coil wire inside the stator cover- and to the TPS but wouldn't work till I spliced a ground wire into the #5 wire and ran it to ground at the same place I grounded the #9 and #10 wires as you recommended. When I bought the Bobber project, based on what little the PO said about the engine I was expecting to have to do mechanical work after getting fire- After making those grounds and wiring it ( Mach up so far) with your procedure you offered ( thankfully ) It started right up - but, only ran on #1 Cylinder. That's when I re-installed the New Procom CDI/Igniter Mapper- It's now running on BOTH - I'm dreading trying to actually make all the necessary finish splicing etc- or even touch the wires lol - But, so relieved to be able to move forward. Here's a great deal I found the Procom on Amazon for only $249 USD-

https://www.amazon.com/ProCom-Performance-Speedmaster-Bonneville-Scrambler/dp/B004QJSO9A

Let me correct myself - with the existing OEM igniter there was NOTHING happening at #5 with or without the added grd. After installing the Procom still nothing TILL I added the Grd @ # 5 - That is when it ran only on 1 cylinder UNTIL replacing the OEM HT Coil with the Nology Profire Coil - Just to clear that up - and to say, I'm not a parts seller or affiliated with ANY. I learned about the Procom Igniter / ICU- or, CDI - depending on what one chooses to call it and the Nology Profire HT Coil right here on the Triumphrat.net site from other helpful participants. Some awesome research and resolutions found here by just reading older posts - and, in this case hijacking one. Thanks again guys - And gals - No wait, that might be "Politically incorrect" But, by the grace of God as it were - I'm not a politician - just a Possum who thinks he's a cat.

 

[marshallsmith27]

That is so exciting. I'm glad you have finally got the ball really rolling! make sure to keep us updated on the whole bike!

but yes I have to buy two coils..... sucks.

I would chime in on your pin outs but I dont want to say something wrong It took me a lot of finagling to get my wiring harness back to working order. in doing so I actually learned quite about about how these bikes work I sure you learned even more!

 

[sonsothunder]

That is so exciting. I'm glad you have finally got the ball really rolling! make sure to keep us updated on the whole bike!

but yes I have to buy two coils..... sucks.

I would chime in on your pin outs but I don't want to say something wrong It took me a lot of finagling to get my wiring harness back to working order. in doing so I actually learned quite about about how these bikes work I sure you learned even more!

I'm pretty sure I'm good now on the igniter pinout - I would love for you to chime in on how you cut/spliced or if you actually removed and replaced pins, etc - I'm anxious to get it wrapped up the best way as I still have the starter circuit - and Auxiliary Circuit while installing some sort of handlebar controls and lights. But, like you, I would feel much better, while I'm at it, to eliminate as much redundancy as possible where wires are concerned and unnecessary safety switches.

 

[marshallsmith27]

so I soldered and heat shrinked. I also shortened a lot of wires that were way too long. I can show you a picture of it tomorrow. the harness is in a box in my shop in the backyard. I'm working on the bike for most of tomorrow. I am currently polishing the forks. I was going to repaint to remove the gouges but after ruling them with a red scotch write pad I realized they weren't gouged at all and only paint deep. right there was where the gouge was. from top to bottom it was huge. glad it didn't square off the side

 

[sonsothunder]

Cool- tomorrow is good- So, did the gouges come from the accident? And, how are you doing from that? Sounds like you have bounced back like a trooper.