[DPE]

I decided when I buy a bike it is mine so I do the things I like. If I worry now, about not adding because someone in the future will not like it. Then it is like I am buying my bike now but ready for someone else to enjoy ? . As long as you keep the parts you can refit or sell them on at any time.

 

[Itchytoe]

Yeah, what you said makes sense. Maybe I'll skip the performance cam and keep mods to a minimum, or maybe I'll just get that Street Triple 765 R I've been eyeing. Not sure what I want to do...

Oh, you're considering a Street Triple 765 R? I happen to have an RS, so I can honestly say it's a fun bike to ride! It's incredibly nimble around curves, and nice and light so that 120ish hp feels like 150. My RS is about 400 pounds ready to ride according to my very crude bathroom scale measurements.

I don't think you will ever be able to modify an air cooled Bonneville to make it similar to a Striple. It's just two different machines made for different purposes. The triple cylinder water cooled engine in the Striple has very different characteristics than the twin in your Bonnie. We are talking about a significant power output difference too. Bonnie is what, 80ish hp and 500ish pounds with a twin? The Striple is 120ish hp, 400 pounds, and a triple. You would need to get about 150 hp out of the Bonnie to get the same hp to weight ratio. $3,000 won't even get you close to that. Even then, you won't be able to get similar handling/road manners no matter what you do.

I honestly think you should get the bike you want, then sell whichever one you don't ride for 6 months. If you ride them both, keep them both.

 

[Mr72]

I kind of think this might be asking the wrong question.

If you are keeping the bike as a classic, then any mods will reduce its value as a classic. OTOH, by doing mods to the bike, you are depleting the supply of unmodified stock bikes from the market and by that token increasing the value of the ones without mods.

If you are talking about near-term resale value, then you are definitely not increasing the resale value with the mods, not in any measurable way, and you might be reducing it somewhat. You are certainly restricting the market for the bike. Whether we like it or not, the truth is Triumph was way better at marketing and market research than each of us are, so a bone stock Bonneville will have the broadest possible appeal. You might like it better with your mods, but you are reducing the number of people total who will like it at all.

These air-cooled Hinkley twins are in an interesting spot in their history. The oldest of them are not yet old enough to be "classics" or to have any kind of collector value, but they are getting close. The newest are old enough to not compete well on the resale market with their water-cooled cousins. This situation will change soon enough. When the oldest start to be over 20 years old, we'll start to see their value creep up as collectibles, and in that case the stock ones are going to be in highest demand. That's just a couple of years away.

This whole situation reminds me of when I had a '72 Datsun 240Z, back in 1993 thru about 1997. Really wish I still had that car! But I had the car during the same kind of dark time in its history. My mostly stock, mostly rust-free car in the mid 90s was worth $1500 or so. Ten years later that same car was worth 10x that. My Z in the condition I let it go today would be worth at least $30K. In fact, I have the original red seats with on tears in them still in my garage, and given the rarity of the red interior, I think those stock seats may be worth more today than the whole car was worth in 1997.

So the day may be coming when the stock exhaust, handlebars and seat from your Bonneville will be worth more than the whole bike with modifications is worth today. Imagine how hard it will be to find a stock set of rear shocks for a Bonneville SE in 20 years. Or a stock set of headlight ears. Or a stock rear fender, especially with the taillight/turn-signals/license-plate in original chrome. Only show bikes will have those parts on them and we'll all ooh and ahh over them even though today we toss those parts in the bin without a second thought.

 

[Mr72]

Bonnie is what, 80ish hp and 500ish pounds with a twin?

Close. Try 65 hp, maybe 460 lb?

With the right mods they can make 80 RWHP and get down to under 450 lb ready to ride, that's without going nuts with the credit card. If you want to go nuts, they can get close to 100hp, and close to 400 lb. Still not nearly in the class of a Striple or any other superbike.

 

[silverlight7]

Thanks for the all the input guys! I've decided to just stick with the Bonnie this year and go ahead with the mods. Resale value doesn't really matter I suppose, I can always make more money.

I may hold off on the cam for now since it will be another $800 or so. I still need to see what I can fit within my budget.

Oh, you're considering a Street Triple 765 R? I happen to have an RS, so I can honestly say it's a fun bike to ride! It's incredibly nimble around curves, and nice and light so that 120ish hp feels like 150. My RS is about 400 pounds ready to ride according to my very crude bathroom scale measurements.

I don't think you will ever be able to modify an air cooled Bonneville to make it similar to a Striple. It's just two different machines made for different purposes. The triple cylinder water cooled engine in the Striple has very different characteristics than the twin in your Bonnie. We are talking about a significant power output difference too. Bonnie is what, 80ish hp and 500ish pounds with a twin? The Striple is 120ish hp, 400 pounds, and a triple. You would need to get about 150 hp out of the Bonnie to get the same hp to weight ratio. $3,000 won't even get you close to that. Even then, you won't be able to get similar handling/road manners no matter what you do.

I honestly think you should get the bike you want, then sell whichever one you don't ride for 6 months. If you ride them both, keep them both.

Yeah, I test drove one, and it was a blast! I certainly don't expect to get that level of performance out of my Bonneville. I just want to make it not so sluggish.

I would like to buy a Striple, but I just can't afford to spend that much money on another motorcycle right now, so maybe next year.

Either that, or the Aprilia Tuono V4... A triple sounds amazing, but I love that V4 sound.

 

[Dougl1000]

Hey all,

Been thinking about getting my 2013 Bonneville T100 ready for this riding season, and I was thinking about doing some upgrades.

She's all stock right now, so I was going to add a better exhaust (Gasser Customs) along with the TTP EFI Stage 2 Power Induction Kit.

But if I'm going to change the intake, exhaust, and the tune, I figured I might as well go the whole nine yards and drop in a high performance cam too.

Also change the suspension and handlebars, add rearsets... you get the idea.

All these mods are going to get me close to $3000, and I was wondering if changing the bike this way would make it harder to sell in the future. Would it affect the resale value?

I like my Bonnie, just want it to have a little more power and be sportier feeling. I'm not sure if it would be better to sell it as it is and just buy something else.

After 2 Rockets, I had a T120 for 3 years. It was a fine bike but I was getting bored with it. I replaced the suspension, which wasn’t bad but it was still a bit squirrelly. So I considered new Avon’s. Plus a Brembo kit for the front. But the power was limited. I looked into higher power standard roadster bikes including the new Triumph Rocket 3 (too heavy), Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro (nothing available), MT-10 (none in town), Indian Scout (nothing special), S1000R (now you’re talking but too uncomfortable to ride), and finally R1250R, which I bought. Comfortable to ride and tour, good power (136 hp/105 ft lbs), sport bike brakes and handling. An alternative to changing your bike into something it’s not.

 

[Mr72]

An alternative to changing your bike into something it’s not.

... and an alternative that's probably much less expensive in the long run, and also doesn't affect resale value.

I mean, if you want a 100hp Bonneville, get a Speed Twin or a 1200 T120. It may be cooler to wring 100hp out of a Hinkley bike but it's a boutique project then and your special snowflake, which nobody else might want. And it'll cost a lot in parts and tons of time.

 

[HiDesert]

Just do you and worry about resale another day! If resale is your #1 concern keep it stock.

If resale is your #1 concern, you either have the wrong bike or the wrong attitude.

Ride 'em. Make 'em yours.

 

[Dougl1000]

... and an alternative that's probably much less expensive in the long run, and also doesn't affect resale value.

I mean, if you want a 100hp Bonneville, get a Speed Twin or a 1200 T120. It may be cooler to wring 100hp out of a Hinkley bike but it's a boutique project then and your special snowflake, which nobody else might want. And it'll cost a lot in parts and tons of time.

100 hp T120? Uh uh. My ideal Triumph classic would be a T120 with Thruxton R power train, brakes, and suspension. You can put bags and a windshield on it. Why does Triumph do this? Ans: marketing. Too many similar but non-ideal models.

 

[silverlight7]

... and an alternative that's probably much less expensive in the long run, and also doesn't affect resale value.

I mean, if you want a 100hp Bonneville, get a Speed Twin or a 1200 T120. It may be cooler to wring 100hp out of a Hinkley bike but it's a boutique project then and your special snowflake, which nobody else might want. And it'll cost a lot in parts and tons of time.

Nah, I'm not trying to get 100 hp! I just wanted a little more get-up-and-go.

Looks like the Triumph Twin Power Stage 2 kit along with an exhaust will get me a 20% power boost, and then I could just gear down the front sprocket too. That would probably be enough, honestly.

I'm not trying to turn this into a sportbike, just wanted to tweak some things with it that I feel needs improvement. Like power and handling.

 

[Itchytoe]

Yeah, I test drove one, and it was a blast! I certainly don't expect to get that level of performance out of my Bonneville. I just want to make it not so sluggish.

I would like to buy a Striple, but I just can't afford to spend that much money on another motorcycle right now, so maybe next year.

Either that, or the Aprilia Tuono V4... A triple sounds amazing, but I love that V4 sound.

A V4 does sound wonderful. I have a nephew that has an old VFR800. It is great when V-Tec kicks in. The sound of a V4 is exponentially better than the tired generic whine of the I4.

Hmmm, I'm starting to think you might be looking for a bike to tinker with. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It can be loads of fun and you end up with exactly what you want because you made it. If Mr72 is right and we're talking about 65 hp, then adding another 10 will feel like a big change. New cam shafts and a good tuner can make a big difference. Are you more interested in top end hp for that adrenaline rush, or more low end torque for the instant acceleration from a red light?

 

[silverlight7]

A V4 does sound wonderful. I have a nephew that has an old VFR800. It is great when V-Tec kicks in. The sound of a V4 is exponentially better than the tired generic whine of the I4.

Hmmm, I'm starting to think you might be looking for a bike to tinker with. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It can be loads of fun and you end up with exactly what you want because you made it. If Mr72 is right and we're talking about 65 hp, then adding another 10 will feel like a big change. New cam shafts and a good tuner can make a big difference. Are you more interested in top end hp for that adrenaline rush, or more low end torque for the instant acceleration from a red light?

Yeah, I do like tinkering on vehicles. Started learning with my 1979 Triumph Spitfire. Did a lot of upgrades to that, then I fixed my 1971 VW Super Beetle.

For the Bonneville, I probably want more HP. I would like to be able to overtake people faster when passing.

The TTP Stage 2 kit (which includes the new intake parts and a tune download) adds 9 or 10 peak HP and 8 ft-lbs of torque.

Would dropping the front sprocket down to a 17t or 16t help with passing, or only for taking off from a stop?

 

[speedfoos]

This should answer all your sprocket questions.

Sprocket Calculator - The easy motorcycle sprocket and chain calculator

 

[AllBeefVeganSalad]

I don't think I'll get even a penny from the mods I put on my bike. But they're done for me.

It's almost painful to add up but:
V&H exhaust: $750
OEM windscreen + brackets: $160
T100 seat to replace scrambler seat: $140
Luggage rack: $200
Pannier mount: $85
Tank bag: $100
Rear shocks: $420
Rear caliper relocate: $150
Crash bars: $150
Case protector: $90
Folding tip brake lever: $25
Barkbuster guards: $150
Throttle spacers: $35
Sidestand footprint enlarger: $15
SW Motech footpegs: $150

If I went full Craigslist and was like "Bike has $2000+ in mods, no lowball offers, I know what I got" the only person interested in buying this bike configured this way is me. It's still a $6500-$7500 bike depending on the day of the week. You'd have to be a pretty savvy buyer to even think about how much money these aftermarket parts cost. I see this a lot on adventure bikes, like the Tiger or the Tenere. People put all sorts of luggage on it, and that stuff is crazy expensive ($500-$750+) and I bet they don't get a penny out of it because most people look at price and don't build in the cost to get luggage -- or they already own some or they have different luggage in mind.

 

[Itchytoe]

Yeah, I do like tinkering on vehicles. Started learning with my 1979 Triumph Spitfire. Did a lot of upgrades to that, then I fixed my 1971 VW Super Beetle.

For the Bonneville, I probably want more HP. I would like to be able to overtake people faster when passing.

The TTP Stage 2 kit (which includes the new intake parts and a tune download) adds 9 or 10 peak HP and 8 ft-lbs of torque.

Would dropping the front sprocket down to a 17t or 16t help with passing, or only for taking off from a stop?

10 peak hp and 8 torque is a noticeable increase. So is dropping a tooth in the front. Those two mods done together should give you a good idea of what mods are capable of.

Going down a tooth in the front sprocket will help with acceleration throughout the entire rev range. Your engine will always be turning a little faster for a given speed, resulting in a little more available power at any given speed. Consider going down 1 tooth in the front, and going up a tooth or two in the rear. -1 +2 is pretty common in the sport bike world for getting better torque and acceleration. You will lose a little fuel economy, and have a lower top speed, but if you are like me and will never hit the top speed of your bike, that doesn't matter.

 

[grant.edwards]

Doing all these mods will still be cheaper than buying another bike.

Yea, that's what everybody thinks at the start of a project...

I don't mean to say that you shouldn't do the mods even if it would be cheaper to buy another bike. Many people (including myself) enjoy fixing, modifying, and building things — and then enjoy using things that we've built, fixed, and modified. I've no standing to tell people not to spend money on things they'll enjoy doing that won't provide any financial return: during the summer I go golfing about once a week, and when I'm done with that I've got nothing to show for it except aching joints, several fewer golf-balls, and goose poop on my shoes.

 

[AllBeefVeganSalad]

I've got nothing to show for it except aching joints, several fewer golf-balls, and goose poop on my shoes.

Work you only do for money is a job. Work you pay to do is a hobby.

 

[Mr72]

For the Bonneville, I probably want more HP. I would like to be able to overtake people faster when passing.

FWIW, just trying to help you be honest with your expectations, I have found when most people say they want "more power" what they really mean is they want more torque at very low revs so it feels like more "thrust" when they make a minor throttle change while cruising along without downshifting.

The TTP Stage 2 kit (which includes the new intake parts and a tune download) adds 9 or 10 peak HP and 8 ft-lbs of torque.

No doubt it will increase torque throughout the usable range but the big difference in power is going to happen at "top end", which is at very high revs and WOT. A 10% increase in torque at 3500 rpm is going to be noticeable, but just noticeable. It's not making a ton of torque at that rpm to begin with and making a little more isn't going to make it snap your neck. But a 10% increase in torque at 8K rpm will make a serious difference in 0-60 times IF YOU REV TO 8K!

Would dropping the front sprocket down to a 17t or 16t help with passing, or only for taking off from a stop?

It all depends. It will increase torque on the ground at any speed in a given gear. But downshifting, provided you are not nearly at the redline, will provide far more increase in available power. Most of the difference you will feel from a smaller front sprocket is in off the line (standing start) performance. But all of the gears will be closer together, so you will wind up shifting more and since 5th gear cruising will be at higher rpm, you will have more available power at any speed in 5th gear.

On my non-Bonneville I went from a stock 16t front sprocket to a 14t and the transformation made it much quicker off the line but also made it like riding with ADD. It feels very high strung, you are constantly shifting and when cruising at 65 mph it's zinging along at like 7K rpm in the top gear. Already lots of folks complain about turning too many revs at highway cruising on a Bonneville, and you will make this much worse. But it will definitely be more eager to go at every speed given the same gear.

But the truth of the matter is, even my very mildly warmed over Bonneville is extremely quick as long as I wind it up. With the rev limit raised to 8500 rpm on my Bonneville, it will go 60+ mph IN FIRST GEAR. It'll go like 80 in 2nd. So if I want to pass someone PDQ I can always drop to 2nd gear and take off like a scalded cat. I think most folks want to leave it in 5th and twist the throttle and do a pass as quickly as they could in 2nd gear. That's a question of torque, not power, and you won't fix this problem with a stage 2 kit from TTP. You'll fix this with a 1800cc Harley.

 

[silverlight7]

FWIW, just trying to help you be honest with your expectations, I have found when most people say they want "more power" what they really mean is they want more torque at very low revs so it feels like more "thrust" when they make a minor throttle change while cruising along without downshifting.



No doubt it will increase torque throughout the usable range but the big difference in power is going to happen at "top end", which is at very high revs and WOT. A 10% increase in torque at 3500 rpm is going to be noticeable, but just noticeable. It's not making a ton of torque at that rpm to begin with and making a little more isn't going to make it snap your neck. But a 10% increase in torque at 8K rpm will make a serious difference in 0-60 times IF YOU REV TO 8K!



It all depends. It will increase torque on the ground at any speed in a given gear. But downshifting, provided you are not nearly at the redline, will provide far more increase in available power. Most of the difference you will feel from a smaller front sprocket is in off the line (standing start) performance. But all of the gears will be closer together, so you will wind up shifting more and since 5th gear cruising will be at higher rpm, you will have more available power at any speed in 5th gear.

On my non-Bonneville I went from a stock 16t front sprocket to a 14t and the transformation made it much quicker off the line but also made it like riding with ADD. It feels very high strung, you are constantly shifting and when cruising at 65 mph it's zinging along at like 7K rpm in the top gear. Already lots of folks complain about turning too many revs at highway cruising on a Bonneville, and you will make this much worse. But it will definitely be more eager to go at every speed given the same gear.

But the truth of the matter is, even my very mildly warmed over Bonneville is extremely quick as long as I wind it up. With the rev limit raised to 8500 rpm on my Bonneville, it will go 60+ mph IN FIRST GEAR. It'll go like 80 in 2nd. So if I want to pass someone PDQ I can always drop to 2nd gear and take off like a scalded cat. I think most folks want to leave it in 5th and twist the throttle and do a pass as quickly as they could in 2nd gear. That's a question of torque, not power, and you won't fix this problem with a stage 2 kit from TTP. You'll fix this with a 1800cc Harley.

Downshifting doesn't help much once I'm at speed, because I'll quickly hit 5000 rpm, and there's basically no power above that. That's why I was considering the cam.

Especially on the highway, there's almost no point in downshifting. 4th gear puts me above 5 grand, and it doesn't accelerate much faster than 5th.

What kind of power mods do you have on your Bonnie?

 

[Mr72]

Downshifting doesn't help much once I'm at speed, because I'll quickly hit 5000 rpm, and there's basically no power above that. That's why I was considering the cam.

I think this is a difference between perception and reality. TTP has this stock hp curve:

https://www.triumphtwinpower.com/triumph-twin-power-torque-model-comparison.php

A stock Bonneville makes something like 45hp (according to this curve) at 5K rpm and over 60hp at 8K. The entire point of downshifting is because you make more power at higher revs. Maybe there's something seriously wrong with your bike, or is it a 270-deg crank bike (America/Speedmaster/Scrambler?), but a normal stock Bonneville/SE will be way quicker if kept above 5K rpm at all times. Even a 270-degree crank bike still makes more power after 5K up to 7K... but the 360-deg bikes increase pretty linearly right up to the rev limiter (and beyond if you bump the rev limit).

Especially on the highway, there's almost no point in downshifting. 4th gear puts me above 5 grand, and it doesn't accelerate much faster than 5th.

I bet if you put a stopwatch on it, you'd find that's objectively incorrect. Downshift to 3rd gear and it'll fly.

This is why I mentioned about the perception of turning the throttle and having a feeling of a surge of "power" without downshifting. That's what I think most people are looking for when asking for "more power". And BTW that's why there's bikes that make a totally unusable amount of top end power ... it's because what the buyer really wants is 50 hp at 3500 rpm, not 10K rpm. But 50hp moves the bike just as much no matter the rpms.

What kind of power mods do you have on your Bonnie?

airbox baffle removal, bellmouth inlet, TEC 2-1 exhaust, TTP tune 2 2-1 (with my own ECU tweaks...). I did remove the SAI and evap stuff but that has no effect on performance. I doubt my mods have added more than 7 hp, but I have not had it on a dyno. But I have pinged it off of my 8500 rpm rev limiter in first gear several times. I assure you it doesn't stop pulling after 5K. It doesn't have that kind of peak-rpm drop off like my other bike does.