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I have a street trip and my brother recently bought a monster 796, with ABS. One of the big differences in the bikes is the power of the rear brake. The Duc back brake seems almost lifeless. Questioning this, when he went in for his first service he asked the guys to just have a look that everything was ok as he was a bit baffled by how weak it was. They checked it, said everything was ok and asked him how much he uses it. He acknowledged that the front provides a vast majority of the stopping power, but he tended to use it mostly in conjunction with the front brake. They then proceeded to tell him that although riding instruction teaches you to use the front and compliment with the back, in reality you shouldn't even use the back brake at all. I'm paraphrasing, and I can ask him again what exactly they said, but the gist of it, was don't use it. Wondering how much everyone out there uses their back brake and if this line of thinking was common, as I have always used it in "conjunction". Wondering if they were being bike specific or making a general statement about riding that I haven't heard.
 

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I have a street trip and my brother recently bought a monster 796, with ABS. One of the big differences in the bikes is the power of the rear brake. The Duc back brake seems almost lifeless. Questioning this, when he went in for his first service he asked the guys to just have a look that everything was ok as he was a bit baffled by how weak it was. They checked it, said everything was ok and asked him how much he uses it. He acknowledged that the front provides a vast majority of the stopping power, but he tended to use it mostly in conjunction with the front brake. They then proceeded to tell him that although riding instruction teaches you to use the front and compliment with the back, in reality you shouldn't even use the back brake at all. I'm paraphrasing, and I can ask him again what exactly they said, but the gist of it, was don't use it. Wondering how much everyone out there uses their back brake and if this line of thinking was common, as I have always used it in "conjunction". Wondering if they were being bike specific or making a general statement about riding that I haven't heard.
Well, don't know that it's necessarily advisable to not use the rear at all, but it is true that on most modern sport bikes when braking really hard, the rear brake is often practically useless because the front brakes are so strong that there is often very little weight left on the rear. Personally I do use the rear in conjunction with the front most of the time but I do often leave the rear alone when braking really hard.
 

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I go 50/50 on the braking especially when braking hard. Never use the front brake when going slow at maneuvering speeds to not wash out the front end.

Also, brake 50/50 when stopping then use the rear brake to bring her to the final stop. This gives you better bike control - thank you Roadcraft Nottingham :)
 

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I use my rear all the time. I use it as a speed controller in slow corners and in conjunction with the front under normal braking. Any heavy braking is mostly front but I never just use the front.
 

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I use it before a turn to slow a bit. I use it in slow maneuvering around town and in stop and go traffic. I use it 5050 in conjunction with engine brakeing to stop like right now. Of course the rear brake is used in everyday riding. Im not an s3 jockey but the tiger is nearly the same in function.
 

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I use my rear brake often, the use of both front and rear brakes is way more than just an "on/off" switch. For me the brakes both front and rear with varying degree of pressure, both separately and together is needed for countless circumstances, especially in the city traffic.

There are many good books on motorcycle riding, the guys in that shop might learn something by reading a couple.
 

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I go 50/50 on the braking especially when braking hard. Never use the front brake when going slow at maneuvering speeds to not wash out the front end.

Also, brake 50/50 when stopping then use the rear brake to bring her to the final stop. This gives you better bike control - thank you Roadcraft Nottingham :)
I'm close to this. I use only front at high speeds then slowly transition to using both. By the time I'm down to 10 mph or so I use just rear and get ready to put my left foot down at the stop. While stopped I holds in clutch and rear brake in first gear watching my rear view closely until a car or two is stopped behind me.
 

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I have recently been riding using my rear brake, throttle an clutch at the same time in more aggressively cornering. I watched this awesome video and I find that I am using my rear brake a lot at medium/slower speeds while throttling and feathering the clutch. So much more control and conference to ride smoothly through corners.

I can't seem to find the video link, it's from "Motorman's Ride like a pro". It was free and fairly lengthy.

I am interested to hear if others ride this way?
 

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I'm close to this. I use only front at high speeds then slowly transition to using both. By the time I'm down to 10 mph or so I use just rear and get ready to put my left foot down at the stop. While stopped I holds in clutch and rear brake in first gear watching my rear view closely until a car or two is stopped behind me.
Yes - left foot down, right on rear brake, clutch in and scanning mirrors looking for that runaway car with the driver looking down while texting. Also, angle your bike for clean getaway if needed.
 

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I have recently been riding using my rear brake, throttle an clutch at the same time in more aggressively cornering. I watched this awesome video and I find that I am using my rear brake a lot at medium/slower speeds while throttling and feathering the clutch. So much more control and conference to ride smoothly through corners.

I can't seem to find the video link, it's from "Motorman's Ride like a pro". It was free and fairly lengthy.

I am interested to hear if others ride this way?

Are you talking about using higher RPM while riding? If so, that is the way I ride all the time especially in the twisties and in traffic. If you keep your RPM up then it will give you a lot of engine braking and control. It is incredible how much more control you have.

I can fly down a straight, downshift to 2nd for instance before reaching the corner, enter the corner keeping the RPM at about 10-12K throughout the corner which allow precise control. If you are a little fast then you can very (VERY) gently roll off the throttle and slow.

Jason Pridmore (STAR Motorcycle School) teaches this method and I am a believer in his method. On the track or on the street I feel that this method is so much safer than just coasting through corners

In traffic, if you use the same method you will have that same control if someone pulls out in front of you.

Many people have a hard time keeping their bike at higher RPM because they are not used to the engine working. To get used to it, try taking your bike out on a quiet straight...get up to 2nd gear and then just run it up to 12K...roll on and off the throttle really slowly to see just how much control you have over the bike...it is incredible. You are able to do so much without brakes.
 

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I'm with you Joker...keeping the bike at high rpm is a bit counter-intuitive at first, but then you learn how much smoother the bike can be at speed...bit of a learning curve involved but well worth it, IMHO.
 

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Are you talking about using higher RPM while riding? If so, that is the way I ride all the time especially in the twisties and in traffic. If you keep your RPM up then it will give you a lot of engine braking and control. It is incredible how much more control you have.

I can fly down a straight, downshift to 2nd for instance before reaching the corner, enter the corner keeping the RPM at about 10-12K throughout the corner which allow precise control. If you are a little fast then you can very (VERY) gently roll off the throttle and slow.

Jason Pridmore (STAR Motorcycle School) teaches this method and I am a believer in his method. On the track or on the street I feel that this method is so much safer than just coasting through corners

In traffic, if you use the same method you will have that same control if someone pulls out in front of you.

Many people have a hard time keeping their bike at higher RPM because they are not used to the engine working. To get used to it, try taking your bike out on a quiet straight...get up to 2nd gear and then just run it up to 12K...roll on and off the throttle really slowly to see just how much control you have over the bike...it is incredible. You are able to do so much without brakes.
I understand what you're saying about higher RPMs, what I was expressing is a little different from that, but does comprise higher RPMs. I agree with what you're saying about downshifting being careful to not be in the turn itself. It can be done but risky If the RPMs are too high. No coasting for sure.

At slower speeds say 20 to 30 miles an hour in a switchback turn, I have found that keeping the throttle as it is and if needed to control speed lightly "feathering the clutch" and applying the rear brake "a touch" gives me a lot of control. Also, at low speeds giving throttle and rear brake with clutch control your bike will almost stand straight up while moving very slowly.

I don't want to overstate my riding ability here. I've ridden dirt bikes for a long time but found that I usually just mostly through those around in a jerky fashion. Riding on the street is becoming a whole new experience for me, and I think it's really cool that I'm finding out there are different levels and styles of riding. I will definitely check out your guy to understand the Higher RPM riding.

One question I had is, will feathering the clutch and using the brake and throttle create any maintenance issues? It would seem reasonable to me that both the brake and clutch would wear at a faster rate. In your case with higher RPM riding do you think it has been an adverse effect on the engine?
 

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IMO using motorcycle brakes in a quick stop requires finesse and occasional practice. The front brakes do the real stopping but a light touch on the rear brake lends some stability and a little extra stopping power. The manufacturers make the rear brake on sport-bikes weak on purpose to help prevent sideways skids in a panic stop. It is a good idea to practice some fast stops a few times a month so you have a good idea of how much pressure you can put on the rear brake lever without skidding (make sure there are no cars in the rear view mirror!), also practice gripping the tank with your knees as you hit the brakes to help prevent a tail-high stoppie! - Wayne
 

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I understand what you're saying about higher RPMs, what I was expressing is a little different from that, but does comprise higher RPMs. I agree with what you're saying about downshifting being careful to not be in the turn itself. It can be done but risky If the RPMs are too high. No coasting for sure.

At slower speeds say 20 to 30 miles an hour in a switchback turn, I have found that keeping the throttle as it is and if needed to control speed lightly "feathering the clutch" and applying the rear brake "a touch" gives me a lot of control. Also, at low speeds giving throttle and rear brake with clutch control your bike will almost stand straight up while moving very slowly.

I don't want to overstate my riding ability here. I've ridden dirt bikes for a long time but found that I usually just mostly through those around in a jerky fashion. Riding on the street is becoming a whole new experience for me, and I think it's really cool that I'm finding out there are different levels and styles of riding. I will definitely check out your guy to understand the Higher RPM riding.

One question I had is, will feathering the clutch and using the brake and throttle create any maintenance issues? It would seem reasonable to me that both the brake and clutch would wear at a faster rate. In your case with higher RPM riding do you think it has been an adverse effect on the engine?

I wish I had your background riding dirt...some of the best riders I have seen have good dirt experience.
It is interesting to see all the different styles of riding street. Prior to riding I wouldn't have thought that there could be so many different methods of getting from A to B.

I share your question (thought) about the clutch/brakes/and engine using the methods I use to ride. My guess is that the clutch wear and engine wear has to be more than if you ride "easy" at mild to moderate RPM and at slower speeds. I think the brakes last longer than typical because using engine braking reduces the amount of braking needed.
I know our bikes are made to withstand a certain amount of abuse, but I at this point I have not put any more than 10K miles on any bike before I switched, so no long term experience.

In the miles I have ridden, a lot on the track, I have ridden hard, bouncing off the rev limiter, accelerating hard, braking hard, feathering the clutch, etc. I have done this putting 10K miles on my BMW S1000RR, about 7K miles on my Gixxer 600, and about 3K miles on my Kaw ZX6R and so far none have had engine/brake/clutch issues. I still can't believe these bikes can take all the abuse.
 

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IMO using motorcycle brakes in a quick stop requires finesse and occasional practice. The front brakes do the real stopping but a light touch on the rear brake lends some stability and a little extra stopping power. The manufacturers make the rear brake on sport-bikes weak on purpose to help prevent sideways skids in a panic stop. It is a good idea to practice some fast stops a few times a month so you have a good idea of how much pressure you can put on the rear brake lever without skidding (make sure there are no cars in the rear view mirror!), also practice gripping the tank with your knees as you hit the brakes to help prevent a tail-high stoppie! - Wayne
Rear brake is a weakness of mine. I get a lot of high performance braking practice on the track, but it is all engine braking and front brake. That type of braking too is usually coming off a straight braking hard to reach my entry speed. I need to practice more of the braking to a full stop using front and back....I will take your advice and practice it next time I go out.
 

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They then proceeded to tell him that although riding instruction teaches you to use the front and compliment with the back, in reality you shouldn't even use the back brake at all.
A question for your brother to ask his Ducati mechanic: Why did Ducati go to the trouble and expense of fitting a rear brake if "in reality, you shouldn't ..."?

There are several circumstances in which using the rear brake, with or without front brake, is exactly the right thing to do.
 

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If you never use your rear brake your riding wrong. Plain and simple. I think most of us understand that, people above have written about the proper times to use it.
 

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I HAVE A BACK BRAKE ???? I'll have to check ? Lol
never use it , well maybe to hold the bike if I'm stopped on a hill or something ,but that's about it ....
 
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