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A 22 year old guy was killed in Vancouver WA today - he was doing a wheelie down the road when he collided with a car making a turn.

A few weeks ago I had a guy wheelie by me on the freeway. He was in the far RIGHT lane, I was in the center lane, and he flew by me doing at least 80mph. I commented at the time he never had long to live.
 

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A couple weeks ago a young lady was in the opposite lane headed opposite to my Chevy Tahoe; she was standing straight up on the seat, no hands on the bars, not even close.

What a mess the Tahoe could have made of her.
 

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In order to become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. However, excesses of the latter may prevent the former.
 

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An Alternative perspective.

Fair comment, the Highway is no place for wheelies. I`m a wheely junkie but I don`t do them on the highway. Well, not very often anyway ;)

I keep saying this so often, I should save it on my desktop somewhere so I can just cut and paste it into my replies.

Young people don`t have 40 years of life skills, they just love doing risky stuff, surfing trains, pulling wheelies, parkour (I LOVE watching parkour) base jumping or whatever the hell flicks their particular switch. I have nothing but respect for kids that do stuff like this. Some of them are in Iraq or Afghanistan, being heroes under fire and some are just being urban warriors and doing stunts at home. They all have the same 'stuff.'

I love seeing them doing their 'stuff' , because I did 'stuff' like this when I was their age! They aren`t dumb, they are just kids with guts and drive. Valentino Rossi spent his early years doing stunts on the streets on his scooter and running from the cops.

It`s better than sitting at home in front of the x-box shoving junk food into their faces and turning into boring, morbidly obese freaks and game nerds.

If you see someone doing something on a bike, firstly you should ask yourself "Is that something I can easily do? Do I have that level of control on a bike?" If the answer is YES, then your attitude will change. If someone passes you at 80 mph on the back wheel, chances are he has a much higher skill set than you, on a bike. He has acheived a level of control of his bike that is better than yours and is just as likely to SAVE his life, as endanger it. Basically in any given emergency situation or test on a bike, he will probably outperform you.

"A 22 year old guy was killed doing a wheelie when a car made a turn."

In the last year, in the small South East corner of my Small State with a population of 2.7 million, 73 Riders died.
60% of them were returning riders aged 30+. None of them were killed whilst pulling a wheely, doing a stoppy or a burnout. So when I`m in my car, on the Highway and I see an old guy with brand new bike clothing riding past me on his brand new cruiser, I say, "He hasn`t got long to live!" and statistically, I am more likely to be right, than you are.
 

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............... So when I`m in my car, on the Highway and I see an old guy with brand new bike clothing riding past me on his brand new cruiser, I say, "He hasn`t got long to live!" and statistically, I am more likely to be right, than you are.

...The difference is, that old guy is not pushing his luck, statistically speaking on a percentage basis the number of idiots doing wheelies on roads among traffic are !


We know you like wheelies Rob, they're fun, but we also know you are sensible about them !


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Ride on ! :)
 

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...The difference is, that old guy is not pushing his luck, statistically speaking on a percentage basis the number of idiots doing wheelies on roads among traffic are !


We know you like wheelies Rob, they're fun, but we also know you are sensible about them !


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Ride on ! :)
You know John I kind of agree with you but also disagree with you at the same time.

'Statisticaly,' the old guy is the one pushing his luck. Just by being on a bike after a big gap away from them. He and his kind is very sadly overepresented in the fatality count. This mythical and typical 'Mr.Average Born Again' is sensible, a good driver, defensive, has road sense but his road skills developed over the last 20+ years, were mainly from driving a car. He is riding a bike that`s a lot quicker than the one he owned 20 years ago and it scares him, a little. He is the the rider, who, if he feels he has gone too fast into a corner, will panic and unavoidably lapse into a typical car drivers reaction, which is to BRAKE WHILST CORNERING, which will stand the bike up, causing it go straight on and run off the road. This incidentally, as any reader of 'Bike' magazine knows, has just been identified as THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF SINGLE BIKE ACCIDENTS IN THE UK. Bikes crashing on corners, at speeds roughly HALF of what the bike itself, was capable of taking the corner at.

Your typical young biker hothead is not biased by years in a car, on the same corner he will intuitively just lay the bike down further and get round the corner. Just watch the 125 MotoGP guys, there are 14 year old kids riding on the worlds top circuits, just a few seconds slower a lap than Rossi and Stoner, sometimes with higher corner speeds, taking risks and doing stuff that none of the old gits on here (I include myself in this) ever have done or ever will, be able to do. They are not stupid or inexperienced, they are young gutsy kids, with no fear. They are the future of motorcycling. Heroes. Real and proper Heroes.

20 years ago, young headcases on bikes, were nicknamed 'temporary citizens' 'future organ donors' etc etc but I`m sorry, now it`s us lot that deserve those nicknames.
 

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Just watch the 125 MotoGP guys, there are 14 year old kids riding on the worlds top circuits, just a few seconds slower a lap than Rossi and Stoner, sometimes with higher corner speeds, taking risks and doing stuff that none of the old gits on here (I include myself in this) ever have done or ever will, be able to do. They are not stupid or inexperienced, they are young gutsy kids, with no fear. They are the future of motorcycling. Heroes. Real and proper Heroes.
Those guys are also the cream of the crop; they have better reflexes and more skill than 99% of the riders out there. They are not, however, heroes to me. A hero puts his own well being at risk for the benefit of others. But that's just my definition.

Are you really so certain that the ability to wheelie proves that all the rest of the rider's skills are equally superior? This is intended as an honest, straightforward question. A fast draw alone does not a gunfighter make.
 

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Superior skills don't mean much when 2,000 pound cars are turning, changing lanes, braking hard etc. all around you. People in Iraq and thrill seeking base jumpers aren't putting innocent peoples live at risk. Did that motorcycle jump up thru the windshield and kill someones wife or kids? I doubt these kids are more skilled than Indian Larry type folks.
 

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All good points, but doing stunts on the hwy or street is also in dangering others.......and is illegal so i am against it.
The problem is when the states, or citys over react and impose laws that any wheelie or hard acceleration will get you a ticket or jail time.
 

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.........
I love seeing them doing their 'stuff' , because I did 'stuff' like this when I was their age! They aren`t dumb, they are just kids with guts and drive. Valentino Rossi spent his early years doing stunts on the streets on his scooter and running from the cops.

It`s better than sitting at home in front of the x-box shoving junk food into their faces and turning into boring, morbidly obese freaks and game nerds.

If you see someone doing something on a bike, firstly you should ask yourself "Is that something I can easily do? Do I have that level of control on a bike?" If the answer is YES, then your attitude will change. If someone passes you at 80 mph on the back wheel, chances are he has a much higher skill set than you, on a bike. He has acheived a level of control of his bike that is better than yours and is just as likely to SAVE his life, as endanger it. Basically in any given emergency situation or test on a bike, he will probably outperform you.

.

WelshRob I really have to agree with you here. In my younger days I tested the limits of my riding abilities on a regular basis and sometimes paid the painful price. But testing those limits have made me a much better rider and car driver than the average driver training school graduate. What really bothers me about this whole thread is the "wheelie" rider is not dead in my opinion because he was riding on one wheel but rather some moron cut a turn in front of him without yielding. He would probably be just as dead on two wheels as one in this instance
 

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Bullocks

Superior skills don't mean much when 2,000 pound cars are turning, changing lanes, braking hard etc. all around you.................
Here Here Dutch!

The street is no place for such riding. Put it on the track where you can do as little damage as possible to others. It places innocent people at risk. I could care less about the stupid idiot that thinks it ok and doesn't think of others. It's nothing more than vanity and showing off. They don't care about anyone or anything else let alone themselves. I watched a show on Speed Vision about stunt riders and the host was a stunter that condoned and glamorized such riding on the street. That's not insanity that's just blatant disregard for others safety and unlawful action. It's akin to vehicular homicide and willful endangerment.

Just watch the 125 MotoGP guys, there are 14 year old kids riding on the worlds top circuits, just a few seconds slower a lap than Rossi and Stoner
Sorry but I got to disagree with you Rob. The age limit for FIM now is 15 years and the 2010 age limit of 23 mandatory, FIM realized that the skill set and ability of a 15 thru 19 year just wasn't developed enough. This was after countless number of sever accidents caused but younger riders and protests of older and more seasoned riders. It's a good move on the part of FIM. There is no 125 time even remotely close to a Moto GP time for qualifing or racing. Where did you get that?:confused:

'Statisticaly,' the old guy is the one pushing his luck. Just by being on a bike after a big gap away from them. He and his kind is very sadly over represented in the fatality count
That's just nonsense. An older rider has more smarts, knowledge, understanding, and doesn't take the unnecessary risk that a younger much less experienced rider does, even one that has taken a hiatus. Besides, an automobile, truck, telephone pole or countless other obstacles aren't selective on the age of a rider or his/her inherent stupidity.:nah:

'Mr.Average Born Again' is sensible, a good driver, defensive, has road sense but his road skills developed over the last 20+ years, were mainly from driving a car. He is riding a bike that`s a lot quicker than the one he owned 20 years ago and it scares him, a little. He is the the rider, who, if he feels he has gone too fast into a corner, will panic and unavoidably lapse into a typical car drivers reaction, which is to BRAKE WHILST CORNERING, which will stand the bike up, causing it go straight on and run off the road
Oops, I guess we'd better leave out Troy Corser and Bayliss, Collin Edwards etc., etc, etc.

Just because your younger, doesn't mean that you'll have the skill set or reactions to know what to do and how to safely change direction in a fast turn. Stupidity isn't age bound or selective. Quite the contrary. I'm not scared laying a bike over to it's limits and beyond if needed. I know that the worst is I'll come off the bike. But with the experience, and knowing your current limitations you won't get yourself in so far that you've got to do something stupid to get out. Younger less experienced riders take chances, push the limits because they are trying to learn. Doesn't make them better riders. Older seasoned riders know their limits and are much better prepared and equipped to deal with abrupt changes. Im' sorry "Braking in a turn if done correctly won't set you upright??" :nah: You might high side from a snap back braking to hard with the rear which you don't do, or the front wheel might slide away if you use to much front, but your not going to go upright unless you want to?? I've had to tag the front brake many times in high speed turns to allow for some slower riders daft maneuvers in races and never gone upright. I use the rear brake regularly in high speed turns to square the bike off during a race. Dive in hard tap the rear brake counter steer and power out hard. Commonly used by many pros and we don't go upright. It takes time to learn and when to use it. But that comes from experience, time and continually usage. You might want to pickup Keith Codes book and read it. It might give you alittle insite.

The only reasons you'll go upright is if you counter with your body and let up abruptly on the throttle while braking, which is a panic move. Generally it's riders traveling beyond their skills, they make a mistake and panic, and thereis no age distinction for this.

Bottom line is, when you take the front wheel off the ground or bunny hop the rear, you lose control. Every tried to riding a unicycle? If you want to be a moron, (generalized statement) do it on your own time in some obscure corner of a vacant abandon parking lot where your not going to hurt some innocent person. No one will care and certainly no one will call you a hero, just another Daft Bugger with a death wish.

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Another one in Fargo.

We had this happen in Fargo, ND this summer. Some jackass was doing wheelies and riding 80mph in a 35, slammed into the back of a young girls car and killed himself, no helmet, no gear, just a t-shirt and shorts. Now this 16 y.o. girl will have to live with that on her conscience for the rest of her life. I'm a rider too but have little sympathy for squids like this.
 

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Jeff,

We're not talking about older riders who have decades of two wheeled experience. We're talking about older riders who rode until they were 25, then were caged for 20 years. Someone like that who then goes out and buys a cruiser probably isn't going to have the kind of skills and track experience needed to make good use of the brakes in a turn, even without adding a panic situation to the mix. In other words, yes, we are explicitly and intentionally ruling out Corser, Bayliss, Edwards, etc.

All of which can be discussed without questioning any other forum member's riding skills.

What is possible to experts and likely for newbies young or old are two different matters.
 

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..........This mythical and typical 'Mr.Average Born Again' is sensible, a good driver, defensive, has road sense but his road skills developed over the last 20+ years, were mainly from driving a car. He is riding a bike that`s a lot quicker than the one he owned 20 years ago and it scares him, a little.................

Yes I can see this, Mr Average Born Again armours himself up and thinks he's a squid again and bullet proof. It's said once you ride a bike you never forget but after many years off one skills will be very rusty and in lots of instances redeploying bad habits learned as a youth.

Mr ABA would be advised to get himself onto an MSF course and rebuild his experience and start to think how to ride again. Cornering is often an art lost on many.


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Ride on ! :)
 

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In order to become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. However, excesses of the latter may prevent the former.
Thats a great quote.

A shame for the rider too.
 

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I normally keep quiet on this forum and just read for advice and the entertainment value. But, this discussion I find to be interesting and wanted to input my 2C.

What really bothers me about this whole thread is the "wheelie" rider is not dead in my opinion because he was riding on one wheel but rather some moron cut a turn in front of him without yielding. He would probably be just as dead on two wheels as one in this instance
I like to wheelie, but I don't do it on a highway with other traffic in the lanes next to me. Being on one wheel completely removes any ability to ride defensively. Sure, the cager was at fault, but if if riding normally at 80MPH the rider probably could have easily sped up or slowed down, or swerved left or right. Lots of options unavailable with only one wheel on the ground. Additionally, what type of intersection was he going through at 80mph?

There is a time and a place for everything. This might have been the wrong time and wrong place.

Not to disparage the victim or their family of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Welshrob everyone is welcome to wheelie to the ends of the earth, but not on public roads where they endanger other drivers, especially busy roads. The driver I referred to in my original post who wheelied by me on the freeway, on my right I might add, endangered me and many others with his totally reckless driving. If I had signalled and changed lanes he still would have hit me due to high speed and lack of control when up on one wheel.

Thrill riding is all well and good and everyone is welcome to participate, but not where they endanger others.

And to those who blame the cager - where in my original post did it say the car turned illegally or carelessly in front of the motorcyclist? It is quite feasable the car was not at fault at all.
 

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Point Taken

Jeff,

We're not talking about older riders who have decades of two wheeled experience. We're talking about older riders who rode until they were 25, then were caged for 20 years. Someone like that who then goes out and buys a cruiser probably isn't going to have the kind of skills and track experience needed to make good use of the brakes in a turn, even without adding a panic situation to the mix. In other words, yes, we are explicitly and intentionally ruling out Corser, Bayliss, Edwards, etc.

All of which can be discussed without questioning any other forum member's riding skills.

What is possible to experts and likely for newbies young or old are two different matters.
Hi Desert,

I'm not really questioning any member skills but merely making an observation and pressing the point across, advance driving or riding experience comes from time on the track and road, auto or motorcycle, with instruction. Being young and stupid doesn't make you any better equipped than a man or women who had previous riding experience and then came back to riding. In fact as a previous rider they tend to be more cautious and don't take the childish risks. Stunting on the road is just plain dangerous and stupid.

Further, I question the validity of bias statements without basis of factual proof. Especially, regarding braking in a corners and going upright. I appreciate peoples opinions but they need to be prepared for rebuttal and some cross examination with factual proven information and experience, which I think you will agree. I don't take everything I read in a motorcycle magazine literally and I hope others don't either. Nor do I agree with everything that's printed in forums. I offer additional information through proven literary references (ie., by Keith Code) and suggest first hand experience as a teacher, on the track where it belongs, not on the road, as I referenced earlier. It's a great teacher for riders both experienced and novice, they only have to seek it out.

As far as auto experience verses motorcycle experience, references of professional riders are valid. They all have and do drive automobiles and very few put on the number of miles the average joe rider does on the street. Mostly out of necessity, due to manufacturers restrictions for riders on contract. I remember talking to Kenny Roberts with Eddie Lawson in the pits at Silverstone, many years ago and asking," how much he actually got to ride for pleasure on the street." Eddie just laughed and pointed to Kenny. I was shock and surprised to find out that it way less than 10,000 a year. Malcom Smith who I know quite well, who has a Yamaha Dealership in Riverside, even admitted to less than 10,000 miles a year. So, to make a generalized statement about Mr Average is not quite true. I consider myself an average driver and rider with a twist. This is not a disadvantage nor a hindrance but valued experience which can't be discounted no matter who you are.

With that being said, Point well taken. I do have a problem with delivery sometimes and I need to work on that, as well as others.:D But forums are all about point counter point are they not.;)

Cheers

Jeff:motorbike2:


If this isn't enough to convince you then you deserve everything you get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARjyQVjoi0
 
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