[Dustykat]

2002 Tiger, typical ran on battery until it died problem

I went though the electrical checks here and diagnosed the regulator as the problem and got one from Ricks.

I installed the regulator and replaced the female bungs for the fuel injection tank while I was at it. They had been leaking when I took the tank off for maintenance before.

Put it all back together and it will not start. It will turn over strong but will not fire.

Took it back apart and got out the trusty test light. Hooked the battery back up and tested for signal at the coils and the injectors while cranking and got it.

Took out the new bungs from the tank and double checked them, they work fine. Listened for fuel pump engaging, it runs when the bike is turned on.

Reading another thread I will test the main power relay and the side stand switch tomorrow, but is there anything ELSE I should be looking for?

Thanks!

DustyKat

 

[DEcosse]

Most likely the problem is related to your fuel flow.

To validate:
Disconnect the top Fuel connector on the pump plate and put the hose/fitting into a jar
Turn on ignition - Fuel should pump out of the return hose into the jar at pressure.
Caution - only do this if the fuel hose male fittings are non-valved (do not run pump into a closed fitting which includes the bottom outflow fitting if the mating male fitting is removed)

If the pump was turned on with the BOTTOM fitting disconnected, it is possible to blow the hose off the filter inside the pump assembly.

If you can spray fuel starter into TB's and get some kind of 'ignition fire' then you know your problem is fuel related.

 

[tigerrider]

Hi Dustkcat - a question rather than a solution ( after a 2 year break I've got a charging prob again ) - what tests / checks made you condemn the regulator ?

 

[Dustykat]

Ok, so I tested as suggested and of course NO FUEL!

So I look at the BRAND NEW female bungs I put into the tank, take them out and they seem to be working fine when you put the male side in them. *Shrug* put them back in and put the tank back on, still no fire and no fuel at test.

I put the old, leaking, female bungs back in the tank and lo and behold the bike fires right up.

oh and I was right, the regulator was the charging problem. Bike now is fine other than me wasting money on new parts and chasing problems that shouldn't have been there. Also wasting 100 bucks in gas in my truck going back and forth to work when I could have been riding my BIKE!!!

 

[DEcosse]

I've seen it reported that if you thread the metal ones in too deep they will not open properly .......

 

[DEcosse]

... ( after a 2 year break I've got a charging prob again ) - what tests / checks made you condemn the regulator ?

Here is diagnostic guide for you:
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

 

[Dustykat]

I've seen it reported that if you thread the metal ones in too deep they will not open properly .......

These were the nylon versions, both the old sets and the new sets were installed to the same depth as I also thought that may be the case.

Ah well, it's running again so I can be happy!

 

[Dustykat]

Ok, now I'm pissed....

Rode the bike for two days and the battery is dead again! It's running off battery only, after I got the bike running, the volt meter showed 12.75 with the engine reved up and a full charge on the battery. It also fell to pretty much battery voltage at idle.

I am tearing my non existent hair out here. a charging system is not this complicated. What the frikin hell!

 

[iansoady]

If 12.75 is all you're getting across the battery there's nothing (well virtually nothing) reaching it from the charging system. Have you been through d'Ecosse's guide? Just changing things at random is unlikely to sort it out.

 

[DEcosse]

.... after I got the bike running, the volt meter showed 12.75 with the engine reved up and a full charge on the battery. ...

That is a FAIL, not a pass.

12.75 is not a good result and means you have a phase down at minimum - you either have stator or R/R fail - do the tests per the sticky reference thread.
You say you diagnosed to the regulator and replaced it, but now appears it was more likely the stator - was the R/R plug n play, or did you do any wiring yourself to connect it up?

 

[Dustykat]

That is a FAIL, not a pass.

12.75 is not a good result and means you have a phase down at minimum - you either have stator or R/R fail - do the tests per the sticky reference thread.
You say you diagnosed to the regulator and replaced it, but now appears it was more likely the stator - was the R/R plug n play, or did you do any wiring yourself to connect it up?

Plug and play, I swear I did the stator tests as instructed and it passed. I will do them AGAIN and see what happens.

I've been a motorcycle mechanic for 15 years and electrical has always been my Achilles heel, I can do all the mechanical like it's nothing but electric will stump me sometimes.

With a new RR in it I will bet now it is the stator but I will do the tests again.

 

[DEcosse]

The first simple one for stator is isolation test - unplug the stator and measure resistance between any one of the three terminals to engine ground: this should be 'open' or infinite resistance.
If it fails and you get 'short' (zero ohms) to ground, the stator is toast. (If fails, no real need to do following test - that is already conclusive - although can't hurt any worse.)

Then leave stator disconnected and start bike: measure AC Volts between the three possible pair combinations i.e. 1-2, 2-3; 1-3. All should be the same at any given rpm
i.e. check at idle and at say 4K rpm - the numbers themselves less important, their comparative values are what are (make sure throttle is constant when you measure at the higher rpm - lock it somehow so cannot change as you measure your three different pairs)
Do you work in a bike shop in Bay Area? I can stop by one day this week if you like, take a look at it for you - drop me PM if you would like.

 

[Dustykat]

I work at Road Rider, I'll be in the shop every day this week but the bike is at home. I will redo the tests and see what I get.

Stay Tuned!

 

[Dustykat]

Yep, grounded stator. New part on order.

 

[DEcosse]

One of those 'good news/bad news' situations - at least you know the problem now, but bites to have to lay out the cost of new part!
Did you go OEM or after-market? I've had good success with my Ricksmotorsportelectrics stator.

 

[Dustykat]

Yea, Ricks, also Ricks for the Regulator too. At least both parts are brand new now and I shouldnt have to worry in the future. Just have to get the cover gasket, with Mountain View closed the same as my days off thats a challenge

 

[DEcosse]

Probably lucky if they have in stock anyway - order it from MADSS.com - you get 15% off list, no sales tax and free shipping if total order >$40 and it's going to come to your door!
That should be a metal*** gasket - I've had good luck removing without damaging as long as no-one used sealant in the past.
OEM part number T1261098 (that is the part # specific to the Tiger - see note below)

*** hmm - interesting - the Daytona one is metal and 2x the price of the Tiger one (which is same as the Speed Triple).
So I suspect the Tiger one is paper ...........
Even though covers are slightly different (because the stator and rotor are different) would have though the crankcase - and therefor the gasket - would be same?
Safer to order correct part I guess

 

[Dustykat]

Probably lucky if they have in stock anyway - order it from MADSS.com - you get 15% off list, no sales tax and free shipping if total order >$40 and it's going to come to your door!
That should be a metal*** gasket - I've had good luck removing without damaging as long as no-one used sealant in the past.
OEM part number T1261098 (that is the part # specific to the Tiger - see note below)

*** hmm - interesting - the Daytona one is metal and 2x the price of the Tiger one (which is same as the Speed Triple).
So I suspect the Tiger one is paper ...........
Even though covers are slightly different (because the stator and rotor are different) would have though the crankcase - and therefor the gasket - would be same?
Safer to order correct part I guess

Got the metal gasket and the job went very smoothly. It was due for an oil change anyway

I have a very strong 14+ coming back to the battery now so this one is a done deal. Thanks for all the help!

 

[DEcosse]

Good conclusion to the story

Moot point on oil change now (especially since you said needed anyway) but there is actually no requirement to drain the oil - you only lose maybe 1/2 cup or so when you remove the stator cover.

Interesting that Triumph spec'd different gaskets - did you order under the Daytona part number, or was the Tiger one metal after all?

 

[Dustykat]

Sorry for not getting back to you until now, been very busy lately.

I was given the option of paper or steal gaskets by the parts guy. So I took the steel. he did not tell me if the original part number was steel or not.

I changed the oil just because it was time to do so. Might as well as I have the tool box out.

Thanks again for all your help!