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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

Does anyone have feedback or opinions on THESE?
The two missing gauges I feel should really be on the bike are Oil Pressure and Voltage. The latter because my Boyer is sensitive to voltage dropping to 12v (had issues in the past, running H4 60w main beam etc and finding the 21w brake light would kill the spark) and the former because I would like to keep an eye on pressure and doubt I would notice the oil warning light if I lost pressure, for whatever reason.
I have a T140E, with the same clock/warning light housing arrangement as a Trident T160, like this:

715066


So I figure that if I get one of these and add the warning light, I would have both bases covered.



Although I might use a Smiths or Veglia period gauge to match the original clocks instead.

Would be really useful to hear any experience of using these types of warning bulbs though.
The manufacturers state the following:
715067


As my Boyer Mk2 ignition starts to fail at 12v or below, this would be a good early warning but I wonder if these figures are a little low for our old bikes.
Here are my measurements with headlight Off/On:
1000rpm 12.2/11.9
2000rpm 13.6/12.1
3000rpm 14.2/12.2
4000rpm 14.3/12.3
Battery sits at around 12.6v with the engine and all electrics off.

If I have the engine running with the headlight on and the battery is sitting at around 12.1 - 12.3v then I will be getting red and amber warnings. As long as it stays steady at that voltage, I should be OK. I guess I should be looking out for red fast flashing state <12.05v as this is where my Boyer will start playing up..

Cheers,
Ian
 

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Looks OK to me, I reckon that it would be a 'more trustworthy' reading if you were doing open road speeds...maybe not so much around town?
 

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Hi Ian,
Oil pressure gauge, it can show symptoms of problems before they get serious for the engine, the standard oil warning lamp will let you know of a problem after it’s too late to save an engine.
I had my oil pressure dropping to 40 psi on tickover (high volume oil pump fitted). It turned out to be an inverted crankshaft oil seal. It would never have shown on an oil light.

Voltage indicator lamp - is a constant reassurance that the bike is charging OK. If you can see a problem you can either resolve it or get to a place where you are not left stranded, before the battery finally dies.

I place mine under the tank bung the hides the central bolt. I put a notch in the tank holding dished washer, then feed a small tube through the rubber to take the wire under the tank and fit a small 3 pin connector for tank removal. Removing the paint from the back of the badge means it glows red or green with a blacked out Triumph label (easy to do), removing the paint from the ‘Triumph’ logo means you get just the word “Triumph" glowing (cooler but difficult to achieve successfuly). Tank bung badges are not all the same the good ones have the ‘Triumph’ logo embossed in the plastic, the nasty ones are just printed on. Oh and you have to cut the centre of the badge rubber out to let the light through.

I find Both mods very useful.

If your readings are from a 3 phase alternator, then I suggest you want to look a little closer at the charge output for a partial fault, they seem a little low. If you have all 3 phases present then you might find that the rotor is demagnetised.
If the output is from a single phase alternator, then upgrading to 3 phase might help.

You have a high wattage bulb fitted, a high lumens (osram nightbreaker or equivalent) lower wattage bulb might help, along with led stop/tail bulb. Maybe even LED headlamp. But you are curing the symptons not the cause.

Boyer ignition sensitivity to low battery voltage unfortunately is their ‘Achilles Heel’, not so bad when T140’s were daily drivers, but now more prominent as they have mostly been relegated to weekend warriors.

Regards
Peg.
 

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Hi Ian,

LPW o.p. gauge kits; (y) I've had 'em on both my T160's for years. Nevertheless, three things:-

. Have you checked if they supply engine fittings to attach to a twin? The kit was originally developed for triples, LPW supplies a banjo and bolt to fit in place of one of the centre main bearing oilway drilling blanking bolts, which twins don't have The eponymous Les did fit this gauge to his '79-on-twin-based "Buccaneer" but I'm not sure how he connected the gauge pipe to the engine. On my T100, I've converted the o.p. switch to a banjo bolt and used a standard Goodridge banjo but, by definition, I've also used Goodridge braided hose.

. If the engine connection's sorted, the standard engine-gauge pipe is plastic. If you use it, I advise threading it inside a length of Bowden cable outer (speedo. or tacho. cable outer?); reason is plastic pipe touching a hot exhaust pipe even momentarily tends to be terminal for the plastic.

. I'd be dubious about substituting the gauge. No experience of Veglia o.p. gauges but Les stopped using "Smiths" gauges sometime during the 1980's - Speedograph Richfield took over "Smiths" gauges when Smiths stopped making 'em and Les said each successive batch of gauges was increasingly-poor quality. Otoh, I believe successive owners of the LPW business have sourced that "L.P. Williams"-labelled gauge from the same maker.

warning light,
manufacturers state the following:
You haven't posted the manufacturer? Consider what Al Osborn calls his Battery Status Monitor, which has more 'normal' indications for 'normal' battery Voltages on these old heaps?

That said, I agree with Peg ...

measurements with headlight Off/On:
... the "headlight ... On" Volts are pants; even a standard [email protected] 3-phase should be producing 9A @ 2,500 rpm, while a 60/55 (main/dip Watts) should be drawing just over an Amp more than the original headlamp bulb. Headlamp bulb drawing a lot more Amps than it should be? High-resistance connection between battery and headlamp (e.g. ignition switch headlamp-only contact, headlamp on/off handlebar switch, etc.)? Failing battery?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Ian,
Oil pressure gauge, it can show symptoms of problems before they get serious for the engine, the standard oil warning lamp will let you know of a problem after it’s too late to save an engine.
I had my oil pressure dropping to 40 psi on tickover (high volume oil pump fitted). It turned out to be an inverted crankshaft oil seal. It would never have shown on an oil light.
Fair point, thanks Peg. What is the normal pressure range of the twin?

Voltage indicator lamp - is a constant reassurance that the bike is charging OK. If you can see a problem you can either resolve it or get to a place where you are not left stranded, before the battery finally dies.

I place mine under the tank bung the hides the central bolt. I put a notch in the tank holding dished washer, then feed a small tube through the rubber to take the wire under the tank and fit a small 3 pin connector for tank removal. Removing the paint from the back of the badge means it glows red or green with a blacked out Triumph label (easy to do), removing the paint from the ‘Triumph’ logo means you get just the word “Triumph" glowing (cooler but difficult to achieve successfuly). Tank bung badges are not all the same the good ones have the ‘Triumph’ logo embossed in the plastic, the nasty ones are just printed on. Oh and you have to cut the centre of the badge rubber out to let the light through.

I find Both mods very useful.
I remember your Triumpg bung light idea from a previous thread. I love the idea!

If your readings are from a 3 phase alternator, then I suggest you want to look a little closer at the charge output for a partial fault, they seem a little low. If you have all 3 phases present then you might find that the rotor is demagnetised.
If the output is from a single phase alternator, then upgrading to 3 phase might help.
I fitted a new Rotor and machined a spacer to ensure the rotor spins in the midst of the coils (as opposed to the standard fitting of it hanging out on the inside). Is there an east way to check if all 3 coils are outputting and the zeners are ok too? Thanks

You have a high wattage bulb fitted, a high lumens (osram nightbreaker or equivalent) lower wattage bulb might help, along with led stop/tail bulb. Maybe even LED headlamp. But you are curing the symptons not the cause.

Boyer ignition sensitivity to low battery voltage unfortunately is their ‘Achilles Heel’, not so bad when T140’s were daily drivers, but now more prominent as they have mostly been relegated to weekend warriors.

Regards
Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Ian,

LPW o.p. gauge kits; :thumbsup I've had 'em on both my T160's for years. Nevertheless, three things:-

. Have you checked if they supply engine fittings to attach to a twin? The kit was originally developed for triples, LPW supplies a 5/16" ID banjo/5/16"UNC bolt to fit in place of one of the centre main bearing oilway drilling blanking bolts, which twins don't have The eponymous Les did fit this gauge to his '79-on-twin-based "Buccaneer" but I'm not sure how he connected the gauge pipe to the engine. On my T100, I've converted the o.p. switch to a banjo bolt and used a standard Goodridge banjo but, by definition, I've also used Goodridge braided hose.
Yep: LPW do 120/140/160 fitments (need to state when ordering)

. If the engine connection's sorted, the standard engine-gauge pipe is plastic. If you use it, I advise threading it inside a length of Bowden cable outer (speedo. or tacho. cable outer?); reason is plastic pipe touching a hot exhaust pipe even momentarily tends to be terminal for the plastic.
LPW supply stainless braided line.


. I'd be dubious about substituting the gauge. No experience of Veglia o.p. gauges but Les stopped using "Smiths" gauges sometime during the 1980's - Speedograph Richfield took over "Smiths" gauges when Smiths stopped making 'em and Les said each successive batch of gauges was increasingly-poor quality. Otoh, aiui subsequent owners of the LPW business have continued to source that "L.P. Williams"-labelled gauge from the same maker?
I was under the impression that the LPW kit uses rebadged Smiths (the braided oil line has Smith's fittings).
Veglia would match the original gauges and they are regarded as about the best available. Fitted to 60s/70s Ferraris :)
Hard to find though...

Boggie said:
warning light
manufacturers state the following:
You haven't posted the manufacturer. Consider what Al Osborn calls his Battery Status Monitor, which has more 'normal' indications for 'normal' battery Voltages on these old heaps?
If you click to follow the link, the manufacturer is Eclipse. I had looked at Osborrn but preferred the sequence of the Eclipse.

Boggie said:
measurements with headlight Off/On:
Your "headlight ... On" Volts are crap; 'original Lucas' reckoned the '79-standard [email protected] 3-phase should be producing 9A @ 2,500 rpm, while a 60/55 (main/dip Watts) should be drawing just over an Amp more than the original headlamp bulb. Headlamp bulb drawing more Amps than it should? High-resistance connection between battery and headlamp (e.g. ignition switch headlamp-only contact, headlamp on/off handlebar switch, etc.)? Failing battery?
I wonder what the combination of 60w main, 2x 5w pilots, 2x coils, Boyer and a 21w brake light all draw: Without the coils and Boyer, I am already at 7.6A. Any idea what the 2xcoils and Boyer would draw? over 1.4A and we are into discharge territory.

Ian
 

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Re:Voltage gauge I have this (10mm size) which is similar to the one you link to, perhaps a bit more rugged (also slow green blink when parked - like an alarm ;) - instead of steady amber). I got it on ebay here. I find it very helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Lpar! The first one you link to is the same as my link, but the second from eBay has a more suitable indication range I think...
 

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Sorry oops I have now corrected the link. Same price as eBay on their website.
 

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Hi Ian,

under the impression that the LPW kit uses rebadged Smiths (the braided oil line has Smith's fittings).
Depends what you mean by "Smith's fittings"? 1/8"BSP male thread inlet on all o.p. gauges I have/had, not only Smiths. Not sure why LPW would pay to "rebadge Smiths" as all triples originally had Smiths clocks and Les originally supplied Smiths o.p. gauges. Les changed gauges between supplying the first and second kits for my T160's, I asked if he could supply a Smiths gauge with the second kit, which was when he told me the aforementioned story as part of the explanation.

LPW supply stainless braided line.
-02 or -03? At the time I made mine, 1/8"BSP female fittings were only available for -03 hose; if that's still the case, be aware patience is required to get the bend between frame and gauge right so that sideways pressure isn't put on the gauge fitting when turning the steering lock-to-lock; I started off with a metre of hose and cut off a centimetre at a time 'til it was right.

Risking stating the obvious, you might want to confirm that the braided hose supplied is plastic-coated.

wonder what the combination of 60w main, 2x 5w pilots, 2x coils, Boyer and a 21w brake light all draw: Without the coils and Boyer, I am already at 7.6A. Any idea what the 2xcoils and Boyer would draw?
The coils (should) draw ~3.5A; the draw of any e.i. itself is (should be) negligible.

Your lamps consumption calculation is odd: why would you ride around with main beam and the brake lamp on continuously if at low rpm for any length of time?

Riding for any length of time at low engine rpm is usually in traffic, so 55W dip at best, plus 6W pilot and 5W tail = 66W = 5.5A; plus 3.5A = 9A. Brake lamp - like indicators and horn - is intermittent, for which your bike has (should have) a minimum-9Ah battery. As I posted before, Lucas reckoned the standard 3-phase alternator on your bike should generate 9+ Amps above 2,500 rpm.

Personally, I wouldn't ride for any length of time at low engine rpm in traffic with the headlamp on - the high-output alternator can do it but not only is headlamp dip brilliantly-positioned to dazzle/annoy drivers travelling in the same direction, I prefer to have some alternator capacity free to charge the battery powering the "intermittents", which are likely to see more use in traffic. For this reason, I've used 20W quartz-halogen pilot bulbs for decades, including the years when I was a dispatch rider or year-round commuter in London.

Asides:-

. Those q-h pilot bulbs are becoming difficult to source so I'll likely take @rambo's previously-posted advice to use a cheap Eagle Eye LED pilot bulb.

. A Motobatt MB9U is the same physical size as your bike's original 9 Ah battery but offers 11 Ah.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi all,

Does anyone have feedback or opinions on THESE?
The two missing gauges I feel should really be on the bike are Oil Pressure and Voltage. The latter because my Boyer is sensitive to voltage dropping to 12v (had issues in the past, running H4 60w main beam etc and finding the 21w brake light would kill the spark) and the former because I would like to keep an eye on pressure and doubt I would notice the oil warning light if I lost pressure, for whatever reason.
I have a T140E, with the same clock/warning light housing arrangement as a Trident T160, like this:

View attachment 715066

So I figure that if I get one of these and add the warning light, I would have both bases covered.



Although I might use a Smiths or Veglia period gauge to match the original clocks instead.

Would be really useful to hear any experience of using these types of warning bulbs though.
The manufacturers state the following:
View attachment 715067

As my Boyer Mk2 ignition starts to fail at 12v or below, this would be a good early warning but I wonder if these figures are a little low for our old bikes.
Here are my measurements with headlight Off/On:
1000rpm 12.2/11.9
2000rpm 13.6/12.1
3000rpm 14.2/12.2
4000rpm 14.3/12.3
Battery sits at around 12.6v with the engine and all electrics off.

If I have the engine running with the headlight on and the battery is sitting at around 12.1 - 12.3v then I will be getting red and amber warnings. As long as it stays steady at that voltage, I should be OK. I guess I should be looking out for red fast flashing state <12.05v as this is where my Boyer will start playing up..

Cheers,
Ian
I have had one of these little battery condition indicators on my bike for 3 yrs. easy to install and peace of mind knowing condition of battery.
 
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