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My question is, I have several old Triumphs, 1971, 72 and a couple of frames in the late sixties. I've got one that decodes to a 1977 (EP83068). Unlike the other frames the VIN does not contain the 4 digits that indicate the motor model as part of the VIN. I would expect it to be T140VEP83068 or something similar but it isn't. Is this normal for 1977? Has someone tampered with it? Or did Triumph leave it off that year? Any help would be totally appreciated!!! P.S. I do not have the original motor for the frame. I put a 1971 T120RV in it which was quite a chore since they changed the brake and shifter in 1975!!! But I made it work and it's a pretty sweet bike after many hundreds of hours of work. I'm working on getting a VIN check so I can get it tagged. I googled extensively but could not find the answer. Thank you.
 

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I've never heard of the factory leaving the model designation stamping off the frame number. It should be no harder to register/title than with them, being as you are essentially starting from scratch.

We'd be VERY interested if you'd start a new thread in the "Member's Projects" section and start from the beginning with all the details about your build, and LOTS of photos. Thanx.
 

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Hi OldTrumpetGuy, My '73 Tiger original from new has TR7RV in front of #s on left side of head tube/frame rail. The TR7RV is stamped less deep though. The factory smeared white paint into VIN characters to highlight them. If frame has been painted the Prefix may be full of paint so look really close. I hate to do it, but sand some paint if needed.

VIN may have switched sides at a point in time. Don't quote me on that though. Just keep it in mind if needed.

I don't know what state you are in, but in California, the DOT sticker is a big deal. Inspector wanted to see & photo it & verified it matched frame #. You can have repros made with your VIN added. The correct VIN can be very important down the road. I'd get this sorted correctly & get it right, now to save headaches & $$ down the road.
Don
 

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I would suggest DOn'T sand?
Use something like brake cleaner or another solvent to clean the number area
Sanding can easily hide a number for our reasons although hi tech can "find "it again
 

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Discussion Starter #5
All of my other Triumph bikes have the VIN on the left side of the frame just behind the steering column, same as the 77. I've looked very closely and there is no evidence that anything has been sanded off or altered. I've got a few options up my sleeve if I can't pass the VIN check. I may have to get it tagged in Oklahoma first which would end up costing me several hundred dollars more. I'm going to try to take it tomorrow for a second try. I had the officer come to the house a couple of weeks ago to VIN check a Harley that had a typo on the title (he passed it, cost $25) and while he was here I had him look at the Triumph but he wouldn't give me a verification because before I clear coated the frame I had gone over the VIN with a fine point magic marker to make it easy to see so according to him I had tampered with the VIN. So I took some brake cleaner and cleaned everything off so I'm ready to try again. We'll see how it goes. I'm still puzzled as to what is going on. Why would someone remove just the motor model? Doesn't make sense.

I will definitely put some pictures up as soon as I can get them off my phone. For some reason it won't hook up to my computer so I'll have to go to Walmart and save them off to a DVD.
Thanks for the suggestions guys!!!
 

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Hi,

Why would someone remove just the motor model?
Unless there's evidence of grinding, I doubt it's been "removed", where it was stamped is steel.

Don't know whether it's the case on a '77 but I know earlier OIF numbers can be poorly-stamped to the point of illegibility. :(

Otoh, if the "T140V" or "TR7RV" really isn't on the frame, and the area doesn't show any evidence of grinding, could be a replacement frame for the original bike? The "T140V" or "TR7RV" was a block stamp - one hit with the hammer stamped all the characters at the same time in a neat line. Otoh, date code and unique number were separate stamps for each character. If a dealer mechanic or owner was stamping an original number on a new frame, the model block stamp wasn't available, stamping it with separate characters would make it look like a forgery, so the model code simply wasn't stamped on the replacement frame?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'll look again with a magnifying glass. Oh...I was able to post pictures. I've got an android phone and oddly enough, google saw fit to take pictures from my phone and put them on the web in my google photos album!!! Even from my wife's phone too!!! Not everything but enough so I could post some. It's under 1971 T120RV motor in a 1977 frame...or something like that. Thanks again for all the suggestions...I'm crossing my fingers on this one getting verified. One of the other reasons the officer gave me is that he couldn't find a record but that is to be expected when it hasn't been tagged in over 30 years and I don't know the last state it was tagged in. I'll keep you posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did go look at the frame# again with good light and a magnifying glass and I swear there is nothing there but the two letter and five numbers. I did check my other bikes and frames. The two frames are a 69 Tiger and a 68 Trophy. The bikes are a 70 Daytona with a 72 motor and a 72 Daytona with a 70 motor. But none of the bikes and motors numbers match...no big deal. Didn't make it to the Arkansas State Police station today, maybe tomorrow. I really don't know what to tell them except that it is what it is.
 

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My 77 T140V is matching numbers EP 83552 and does not have the T140V stamped on the frame. T140V is only on the engine number and the Australian compliance plate shows model as T140V then the frame number
 

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Hi OldTrumpetGuy, Contacted my friend with '77 Bonnie. Was sold new California. Friend 2nd owner, has had it for 18 years. All stock survivor. #s matching bike.
However... This is really surprising to me. The frame VIN DOES NOT have T140V. It is not, or at least no longer inlaid with white paint, but frame never painted.

#s on frame is UK DP826XX Motor # is T140V DP826XX I used XX for last 2 numbers.

So what is the UK about?
Don
 

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Well that does shed light on the situation but I'm still wondering how the titles had the vin listed. I'm going to try to get them to list it as T120RV prefix since I'm not planning on changing out the motor. I emailed VMCC but got no reply. I was waiting till I heard back before trying again. Thanks guys! Wish me luck! I'm crossing my fingers and taking it back as soon as I get some free time.
 

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Hi,

a 1977 (EP83068). Unlike the other frames the VIN does not contain the 4 digits that indicate the motor model as part of the VIN. I would expect it to be T140VEP83068 or something similar but it isn't.
put a 1971 T120RV in
try to get them to list it as T120RV prefix since I'm not planning on changing out the motor.
Mmmm ... bear in mind "EP" is May 1977, anyone who knows much about Triumph knows they didn't produce 650's in '77 (or any time around then) so it'll immediately look dodgy. Otoh, you've got evidence here of other frames from the same period not having the model code stamped (maybe the block broke?), why screw up what looks genuine?

I emailed VMCC but got no reply. I was waiting till I heard back
What did you ask and what were you expecting?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My thinking is that it would be better for the numbers to match the frame and motor than not. If I sell it I would make it clear that they are not a match.

The email to the VMCC I was offering to pay them if they would offer any suggestions, documentation or any help with my dilemma.
 
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