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didn't see this posted here:

CycleNews said:
Big Problems
12/10/2008
The following is from the AMA...
The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) today strongly criticized the Bush Administration's consideration of a possible 100 percent tariff on a broad range of popular European motorcycles and scooters in retaliation for European Union (EU) restrictions on imported American beef.
"In this tough recessionary climate, it's ludicrous for the U.S. Trade Representative to even consider imposing a 100 percent motorcycle and scooter tariff, because the move will cost countless Americans their jobs," said Ed Moreland, AMA vice present for government relations.
"This very day, the Administration and the U.S. Congress are planning to bail out troubled U.S. automakers to the tune of billions of dollars to save American jobs," Moreland said. "How, in good conscience, can the U.S. Trade Representative turn around and propose a measure that will spell the end of many motorcycle and scooter dealerships, and put their employees out in the street?"
U.S. trade officials are looking at a list of more than 100 European goods for the possible imposition of 100 percent import duties in response to the EU's ongoing import ban on American beef treated with growth hormones. EU officials haven't lifted the 20-year-old ban despite a World Trade organization order to end it. Now the U.S. wants to impose $116.8 million in import duties to equal the amount of money it claims the U.S beef industry loses each year because of the ban.
Included on the hit list are motorcycles and scooters with engines displacing 51cc to 500cc, representing popular on- and off-highway machines from brands such as Aprilia, Beta, BMW, Fantic, Gas Gas, Husaberg, Husqvarna, KTM, Montesa, Piaggio, Scorpa, Sherco, TM and Vespa.
"In America, the majority of motorcycles and scooters under 500cc are sold through local dealerships," Moreland said. "Collectively, these dealerships contribute to the employment of a substantial number of Americans working in sales, service, parts and general operations. Unjustified trade sanctions on European-produced motorcycles and scooters will choke off this vital business, dealerships will close at an alarming rate, and the negative effects will spread downstream through the aftermarket and recreational-equipment sectors, and even the motorsports entertainment industry. Countless Americans will find themselves without jobs."
The AMA sent comments to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative by a Dec. 8 deadline to express the opinions of the Association's 300,000 members on the possible tariffs.
"It is simply unconscionable that motorcycles and scooters are on the list in the first place. They have no place in a trade war over beef," Moreland said. "Furthermore, we find it tragically ironic that, as part of the auto bailout plan, federal lawmakers are considering requirements for American car makers to produce more fuel-efficient vehicles, and yet the motorcycles and scooters that the U.S. trade representative is considering for the 100 percent tariff get three to five times better fuel economy than many cars."
It is unknown when U.S. officials will decide on which European goods will be hit with the stiff tariffs.
 

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It would be an outrage to be sure. Don't think this would fly, but if it did, it would be one Bush could be proud of.
I really wonder sometimes if this country is run by a bunch of complete idiots.
 

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<sarcasm>
Maybe the Bush administration figures this will not affect "real Americans" (who all ride and sell Harleys), and will mainly affect pinko leftists (since they are more inclined to own and sell the European brands), </sarcasm>

Unlikely? Remember the suggestion several years ago that Americans should boycott French Fries? (which was not well thought out - on several levels)
 

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Bu****

It would be an outrage to be sure. Don't think this would fly, but if it did, it would be one Bush could be proud of.
I really wonder sometimes if this country is run by a bunch of complete idiots.
Good call Cburt, you hit the nail on the head, now it's just a matter of how much damage the current administration can do before Obama gets in to clean house!
 

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it's been done in the past.....harley dog was saved by a bail out financed buy a $300.00 sur charged added to ANY foregin m/c over 750 cc's.hence the production of jap turbo charged bikes under 700 cc's in order bo beat this " tax".harley dog made crap then-nothing has changed.............the world remains the same.
 

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I wonder if the feds had considered similar tarriffs were imposed on all the Harley parts imported from Mexico. After all, illegal Mexican aliens are tapping into our welfare programs and costing us millions.
 

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Trade wars don't benefit anyone, it's the equivalent of two guys standing in front of each other with a hammer taking alternate hits on their own heads. Tit for tat mentality, is this the best politicians can come up with for trade ?


Beef treated with growth hormones, totally illegal here in New Zealand ! In Asia many countries were (and some still are) using growth hormones in chickens and men were developing breasts ! I'm surprised growth hormones in animals are allowed at all in the US.

One thing is for sure, the US won't win on this one, the EU will never allow beef that has been fed with growth hormones ! and US citizens should be demanding the same !


Here's a link on US growth supplements for cattle:

http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/ban_on_US_beef.html


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Ride on ! :)
 

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Good Call

Let's look at it in a perspective of admonition. Free trade which is being touted by both sides has a price. That price is equality in trade goods. All imported trade good. Not some, all. If the EU is going to play the game fairly, then they need to allow importation of American beef into the Union. If not they need to expect economic retaliation. That's the reality of free trade. This isn't the first time in history this has happened to bolster fair import/ export trade and surely won't be the last.

Yes, yes, we can go on and on about what's fair and what's not but the reality of the economic impact is far worse. The EU doesn't want American beef imported because it's in fact cheaper and a better product than what's offered. The EU's economic control of consumables such as foods stuffs is important to domestic control of their market. They don't want a cheaper and better import product taking precedence over their domestic availability and profits, which is isolationism at it's finest. So what else do they expect is going to occur from a free trade standpoint. You can't eat a motorcycle and providing a living for US cattle farmers or those that subsist on the sale or consumption beef products is of much greater value to the US government then the small minority that US European motorcycle dealers employ. We allow importation of the same food stuffs from the EU as well as other countries but I can't say the same for the EU.

Can I do without a European Motorcycle or having to purchase one a t a higher price? You bet, when it means putting food on the table and a living in the pocket of the majority at home.

Personally, it's a good call by the US Government. It's about time the US Government got of their preverbal nut sack and called the EU's bluff. It's time to SH*t or get off the pot my friends! When times is hard, it calls for hard measures and your going to see more of this type of action as a whole becasue it's being demanded by the US public. Not just with the EU but many other countries who are practicing one sided free trade. The EU has tried to cloud the economic issues with mad cow disease and growth hormones, which originated in EU countries and the UK. The same practices of using growth hormones has occurred for decades in the EU countries, which were unable to keep up with American beef production and importation. So it's nothing but shade tree economics. Not all US domestic beef is raised with growth hormones. It's readily available at any supermarket and designated on the packages as organically grown. I get a little tired of European countries claiming free trade, when it's more one sided in protection of their own domestic market and isolationist economics. Heck, I'm not even permitted to give blood today in my own country due to the fact that I was possibly exposed to the infection while I was stationed in the UK and Europe. This was during the original outbreak and had nothing to do with growth hormone feed beef. It's a damn ashame, I'm AB negative which is the rarest blood type known. There is far to little a supply available. If I need surgery, I have to wait and provide my own supply of blood.

You have to read much further than the surface then taking one website from a known Liberalist group like OCA. This bunch of nutters is the same that support and advocate use of illegal aliens as picker, and domestic farm help and have liberalist affiliations thoughout the world. There is a much greater impact by definition as to why this is occurring. Do the research and you'll understand. The AMA would do well to point their fingers at the cause of the reaction by the US government. Not at the prospect of losing a small amount of domestic jobs for the sake of saving face with the EU. The European motorcycle market in the US is far smaller then in the rest of the free world, which is something they need to remember before passing judgement.

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Times have moved on and the EU consumer is more sophisticated and aware than they were a decade ago. Try marketing hormone tainted beef within the EU countries (where it is banned internally) and see how much you sell.

If the politicians didn't ban it then the consumer would boycott the meat and the super-markets that sold it.


Irish pork has lost its world-wide reputation because of the recent dioxin scare, would the US import Irish pork? No it's banned there too.

It's not about free trade, it's about health !


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TB, don't kid yourself, you know it's always about money and power with governments and always will be. Tell this to the man who struggles to put meat on his table for his family everyday. Tell him it's about health and he'll tell you it's about survival. Tell the government it's about health and they'll laugh at you all the way to the bank. Governments care nothing about the health of their people unless they can see control and money in it, plain and simple. This goes for all governments.

Cheers

Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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I think whether the US or EU is the more 'right' or justified is somewhat off the point of the post that began this thread. It was more about the harm that might be done to small motorcycle dealerships & their employees through something that is otherwise completely arbitrary & unconnected with them. Surely it's obvious that there would be less damaging options to ordinary folk if some tit-for-tat game between rich ruling elites must be played.

I find your anti EU, really anti everywhere else 'rant' ridiculous. The present financial 'crisis' which has tanked the rest of the worlds' economies is universally recognised to have emanated from sheer, endemic crookery at the highest levels of your country's adminstration (ably aided by a few over here too doubtless). That might just give you pause to consider how fair, ethical or otherwise said administration's approach to world trade agreements has been, the complexities of which you clearly have little clue about.
 

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......... Governments care nothing about the health of their people unless they can see control and money in it, plain and simple. This goes for all governments.

Cheers

Jeff:motorbike2:

I'm afraid therein lies the problem Skull of most international misunderstandings ! Different mind concepts !

What I said was true, the average consumer won't buy suspect foodstuffs ! Their families health comes first however cheaper or 'better'. The answer is simple, don't use growth hormones or banned supplements in livestock. Why is it done ? for money !

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Ride on ! :)
 

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Are we a little PO'ed!

Well, in some instances TB your correct but this particular time I believe that it's pure economics.

IraMike you're so out of touch with the politics of governments. Obviously this touched a personal nerve, that's ok, you are entitled to your opinion but don't hide behind the make believe comradeship of your socialistic attitude. I find your lack of valued comments, ineffectual, boring, and attacking, but never-the-less we continue to listen and tolerate them. Your complete wrong, I understand your responses are directed by your anger at the EU referance in the original topic and my factual statements but this is the crux of the discussion. I think you need to relax, go back read the original topic again, if it's possible for you to leave out your personal animosity and bantering. :rolleyes:

As was stated earlier, this is simple fact and the U.S. will take any necessary steps to ensure it's position and if it means directly or indirectly penalizing smaller U.S. European Motorcycle businesses in favor of a much larger and more important business base, then that's exactly what will happen, no matter how socialistic your view point is or how much it's chaps your arse personally. If you don't like it, oh well! ;) That's what the topic originally stated and that's exactly what my comments are based on and are directly in support of.

The AMA made comment without considering the whole economic picture. I'm an AMA member and I'm in support of a tarriff decision and until the EU decides to exercise some equality in their so called fair trade agreement. Some small services will suffer in favor of the majority. That just happens to be democracy and economic diplomacy at work, something that you're obviously not akin too.:p

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Well enjoy your democratic hormone induced beef Skull, and when you grow a second skull, you know what to do, crush it ! or are you already doing that ! :p


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Actually, I eat organic beef but then again I was raised on a dairy and cattle farm in older and less insane times!;)
Cheers

Jeff:motorbike2:
+1

After reading an article several years ago about modern US feedlots I decided to go organic as well. There is some really scary stuff going on there -- you can't run a feedlot profitably unless you can get that animal full grown as fast as the other guy, and the current record is almost beyond ridiculous. These animals are pumped full of so much growth hormone and supplements that they get very sick, so they have to pump them full of antibiotics just to keep them alive.

According to what I read, some feedlot owners actually wish the government would regulate the industry more simply because the animals are suffering so much. The old timers really don't like the way the industry has turned over the last couple decades.

So I've got to agree with the EU here on banning US hormone beef, basically I think this stuff should be banned worldwide. However if the EU is banning organic US beef then I agree we're justified with tariffs on something in return, I would personally suggest women's shoes or handbags rather than something I care about ;)
 

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Ixne the name calling, or this thread will be locked.

IrlMike, I'd say the current crisis had a lot to do with affirmative action being forced on lenders through threats of lawsuits and government investigations. The problem started long before this adminstration.
 

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Skull, what are you on about?
In the global race to produce more and better beef, quicker and cheaper, (and to boost drug company profits) growth hormones were introduced globally into cattle feed. The EU, it being pointed out to them by independent scientists what ingesting large amounts of growth hormone actually does to the human body (growth of man-boobs, gonad atrophism etc etc all well documented proven science), has banned growth hormone in its own beef production. This has come about largely by popular demand (the EU is a democracy).
The US (which is an oligarchy) has chosen to ignore the scientists and keep producing cheaper hormone-assisted beef, in an effort to undercut EU farmers who are now subject to far more stringent regulation than they are. The EU has a choice of either protecting its citizens' health and the survival of its beef industry (that is now competing on a far from level playing field) or allow cheaper but growth hormone infected US imports to flood the common market, undermining the native cattle industry and causing health problems at large for the wider population.
It's not about banning US imports. Organic US beef (the only type that you personally feel comfortable eating, I notice) would be welcomed in the EU. It's about banning growth-hormone infected meat, from whatever origin.

It's not good enough for you, but it's good enough for the idiots over in Europe? Get outta here!!:D
 

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+1

After reading an article several years ago about modern US feedlots I decided to go organic as well. There is some really scary stuff going on there -- you can't run a feedlot profitably unless you can get that animal full grown as fast as the other guy, and the current record is almost beyond ridiculous. These animals are pumped full of so much growth hormone and supplements that they get very sick, so they have to pump them full of antibiotics just to keep them alive.

According to what I read, some feedlot owners actually wish the government would regulate the industry more simply because the animals are suffering so much. The old timers really don't like the way the industry has turned over the last couple decades.

So I've got to agree with the EU here on banning US hormone beef, basically I think this stuff should be banned worldwide. However if the EU is banning organic US beef then I agree we're justified with tariffs on something in return, I would personally suggest women's shoes or handbags rather than something I care about ;)
good post. maybe this will be a wake up call to reform the beef industry here in the States? one can only hope.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The only problem I have with this tariff is that euro bikes are the only ones that I can ride without crunching my shriveled testicles on the seat or whacking my breasts on the tank. Seriously, I don’t see what is so bad about hormone beef, just rub it with garlic, salt, butter and midol before searing over coals.

Tbirdnz said:
Here's a link on US growth supplements for cattle:

http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/ban_on_US_beef.html
“mad-cow.org” lol I’m sure that’s an unbiased site :D

Rather than motorbikes why not put a higher tariff on French cheese and wine? Do they really think the insignificant sales numbers of sub 500cc bikes from Europe will really be that great? It’s already like they don’t sell them here anyway, I see maybe see one vespa for every four hundred metropolitan :D And those dealers won’t go away, they aren’t single brand shops.

IrlMike said:
The present financial 'crisis' which has tanked the rest of the worlds' economies is universally recognised to have emanated from sheer, endemic crookery at the highest levels of your country's administration
Then you would think that the rest of the world, so dependent on that economy, wouldn’t play whose got the bigger wang with these free trade standoffs. Just a thought :p :D

And if you folks think that the populace of the EU wouldn’t buy hormonal beef anyway then what is the harm of importing it and labeling it as such? The problem would self remedy. Or do you not trust your fellow man to make a judgment call on their own and therefore feel the need to play nanny to the world? Waitsec.… is this another helmet law thread?
 
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