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UK LED lamps. MOT

3K views 33 replies 15 participants last post by  DAVE M 
#1 ·
I have seen on another site that LED lamps in headlights or side lights etc that have replaced filament lamps will be MOT failed after January 11th. This applies to cars and motorcycles. The only LED lamps acceptable are those fitted when the vehicle was new and carries the mark required for the standards. It is all in the new regulations if you look it up.
My own old bikes are MOT exempt so i will keep them fitted. I will have to see how my newer bikes fair when i get the next test.
 
#2 ·
Hi Geoff,
seen on another site that LED lamps in headlights or side lights etc that have replaced filament lamps will be MOT failed
Realistically, it's a non-issue?

As you say, most of our old heaps are MoT-exempt. (y)

Those that aren't, E-marked bulb requirement post-dates most (all?) of 'em?

Given the tester isn't allowed to unbolt things, without removing lenses how's he (or she) going to know an incandescent's been replaced with an LED? He might suspect if a lamp's brighter than the usual candle-in-a-brown-bottle but, given halogen replacements aren't a fail ...? And we use testers that're sympathetic to the foibles of these old heaps? ;)

Regards,
 
#30 ·
Scotts are no strangers to rebellion....;)
Most LED and high wattage halogen are likely illegal in most states here....But it's rarely enforced..
 
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#11 ·
As far as I can see section 4.1.4 says only that headlamps must not be converted to LEDs. That'll upset the young lads in their Vauhall Corsas or Suzuki Swifts come MOT time. My Daytona is MOT exempt so I've got a dual 'filament' LED headlamp bulb in at the moment - it's nice and bright and I think it makes car drivers notice me more.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Deleted .
 
#13 ·
I have a Hinckley Scrambler as my 'working' bike. It has a small diameter headlight, originally with an H4 Halogen lamp, that outputs a very poorly focussed spread of light, with not much difference between dip and main beams. I have tried an LED replacement and found that it just outputs a brighter and even more poorly focussed spread of light. I have now gone back to the original Halogen lamp.
 
#15 ·
A Retrospective amendment to the MOT regs?

Does this mean we shouldn’t throw away all those removed Catalytic Converters just yet? asking for a friend...

I’ve an “E” marked PIAA bulb in my 1200 Speed Twin which is plenty bright enough, guess I’ll have to remove the H4 LED bulb from the Honda when the time comes.
 
#16 ·
Don't even joke about it 😢
My TTR didn't come with one and anyway it'd be a PITA to swap every year.
 
#18 ·
Unless the Ministry of Transport has gone soft the fact that your bike is MOT exempt will not stop that one know it all traffic cop giving you a tug. You are still required to maintain your machine in a manner that the Government agencies believe is safe. Have you looked at the pattern produced by an LED bulb in an H4 lens? You may as well become the Guy that believes dazzling every other driver by riding around on main beam is acceptable.

If you read between the lines, you are not permitted to convert a lens meant for a Halogen bulb. It does not say you cannot fit an LED bulb into an LED specific lens.
 
#19 ·
Hi Rod,

Happy New Year to you. 🥳
Unless the Ministry of Transport has gone soft the fact that your bike is MOT exempt will not stop that one know it all traffic cop giving you a tug.
Reality is all the GB police services have been so under-funded for so long, the days of roadside-check operations are long-gone. If a particular patrol "tugs" anyone, the modern-bike rider with the undersize numberplate and noisy likely-not-E-marked exhaust offers far easier pickings than pulling an old Britbike on the off-chance they might be able make out a LED bulb through the lens facets.

Have you looked at the pattern produced by an LED bulb in an H4 lens? You may as well become the Guy that believes dazzling every other driver by riding around on main beam is acceptable.
With respect, far-and-away the vast majority of LED headlamp 'bulbs' on old Britbikes are BPF fitted in old Lucas lens/reflectors; dazzle anyone with that combination ... :ROFLMAO:

By "LED bulb in an H4 lens", you mean a P43t-base LED array in a modern lens/reflector intended for an incandescent? If so, those LED bulbs are so expensive, anyone using that combination deserves to be done while stupidity isn't illegal.

Joking aside, to be clear about this:-

. the tester's manual wording alone shows how much real technical input went into the change;

. the primary requirement is politicians are "seen to be doing something", after years of inaction;

. while my mate Rishi's focus is on avoiding another 1930's-style Depression, the police have two hopes of any significant funding increase, and one of them's Bob;

. some bright spark worked out the second criterion could be met by kicking the DVSA (Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency) collective arse to shift policing the problem to MoT testers;

. however, because of the first criterion, in reality, the MoT change'll make ten percent of bugger-all difference to The Problem - of drivers being dazzled by LED headlamps - because we've had years of ECE-approved LED headlamps with piss-poor lens design (completely unaffected by the MoT change) fitted new, and we'll continue to have 'em for years to come. 😤

another site
... is IKBA; if you haven't before, read a few threads and note what exercises several regular contributors ... :rolleyes: ;)

Hth.

Regards,
 
#22 ·
Hi
It is a matter of unfortunate timing.

The DVSA have a rolling program of converting the vehicle test stations to a ‘connectecd’ format. Data collected from equipment while testing your vehicle, is to be uploaded automatically to the DVSA servers in Swansea.
So far Roller Brake Testers and decelometers have been implemented. Very shortly Exhaust gas data will be included (at the moment motorcycles are exempt from exhaust gas tests in the UK). On the agenda is headlamp aim.

To upload data from a headlamp tester, the lamp pattern and aim direction will need to be read electronically. At the moment it is a visual test, decided by the vehicle examiner.
The trials and experimentation to determine the recognition of cut off points ran into considerable difficulty with LED and HID converted lamps.
Almost all conversions had poor lamp patterns, with stray and diffused light. The root of the problem was that the LED bulbs did not place the light source in the correct position to be focused by the lenses and reflectors of lamps designed for incandescent bulbs.

Late in 2019 there was a breakthrough in LED bulb design, a new generation of conversion bulbs had been developed that closely mimicked the layout of the incandescent bulb, (these are the ones with two rectangular LED’s),
This new generation of bulbs are able to produce recognised light patterns.
But it was too late, the die had already been cast, the legislation had already been drawn up.

LED and HID conversions are to be banned and removed from the roads via the annual roadworthiness inspection.
Unfortunate timing indeed.

Regards Peg

PS, Cat delete will force exhaust gas testing for motorcycles, so save those catalytic convertors, you might need to put them back on.
 
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#23 ·
Hi
It is a matter of unfortunate timing.

The DVSA have a rolling program of converting the vehicle test stations to a ‘connectecd’ format. Data collected from equipment while testing your vehicle, is to be uploaded automatically to the DVSA servers in Swansea.
So far Roller Brake Testers and decelometers have been implemented. Very shortly Exhaust gas data will be included (at the moment motorcycles are exempt from exhaust gas tests in the UK). On the agenda is headlamp aim.

To upload data from a headlamp tester, the lamp pattern and aim direction will need to be read electronically. At the moment it is a visual test, decided by the vehicle examiner.
The trials and experimentation to determine the recognition of cut off points ran into considerable difficulty with LED and HID converted lamps.
Almost all conversions had poor lamp patterns, with stray and diffused light. The root of the problem was that the LED bulbs did not place the light source in the correct position to be focused by the lenses and reflectors of lamps designed for incandescent bulbs.

Late in 2019 there was a breakthrough in LED bulb design, a new generation of conversion bulbs had been developed that closely mimicked the layout of the incandescent bulb, (these are the ones with two rectangular LED’s),
This new generation of bulbs are able to produce recognised light patterns.
But it was too late, the die had already been cast, the legislation had already been drawn up.

LED and HID conversions are to be banned and removed from the roads via the annual roadworthiness inspection.
Unfortunate timing indeed.

Regards Peg

PS, Cat delete will force exhaust gas testing for motorcycles, so save those catalytic convertors, you might need to put them back on.
I removed the catalytic converter on the R111 when fitting a Staintune exhaust which is designed without the catalytic converter. I have kept the complete standard system just in case. My later Thunderbird LT has the converters inside the down pipes so it is very difficult to take those out. They will stay in but i have replaced the standard exhausts for the free flow ones.
 
#25 ·
Grant, have you checked the pattern on an actual beam tester?Reason I ask is that I made a similar comparison.

Standard H4 on dip beam

and LED

H4 main beam

and LED


I'm a WOF inspector here in NZ so have a beam setter at work that I also used for comparison. The LED's had no discernible pattern at all.
 
#31 ·
Grant, have you checked the pattern on an actual beam tester?
No, I tested the patterns by shining them on a garage door from about 15ft away and taking photos. The bike was tied down in wheel chocks with camera was on a tripod with same manual settings. Both the H4 halogen and the LED had very defined, nearlyidentical, patterns with distinct cutoffs as shown in the thread I linked to.
 
#26 ·
Stuart.
Happy new year Mate, lets hope it's a better one!
All fair points, remember I'm from a small town near Pompey I know quite a bit about the effects of underfunded Police forces. There was once a documentary on our local constabulary. By the end of it several of the Coppers were up on charges of insurance fraud and drug dealing!

My experience though was that as soon as a MOT rule was amended we would see a sudden increase in the old " Seven day wander " tickets all relating to said new rule. Nothing beats the opportunity to gather revenue.
 
#28 ·
Hi Rod,
My experience though was that as soon as a MOT rule was amended we would see a sudden increase in the old " Seven day wander " tickets all relating to said new rule. Nothing beats the opportunity to gather revenue.
Mmmm ... when I was dispatching in London, the location of a Met roadside check was circulated over the radio as "free MoT's at such-and-such". :) However, I remember the Seven Day Wonders as being free, you were only fined if you didn't turn up with the fault fixed within the seven days? Not that I had any first-hand experience of them ... :whistle:

These days, it's so hard to take an IC-engined vehicle into central London, I'm not sure there are any motorcycle dispatchers? :unsure: Or there are so few, I wonder if the Met still do "free MoT's"?

I'm from a small town near Pompey I know quite a bit about the effects of underfunded Police forces. There was once a documentary on our local constabulary. By the end of it several of the Coppers were up on charges of insurance fraud and drug dealing!
:LOL:

Regards,
 
#29 ·
Dont see many riders on CB250s, CX500s or Yamaha Phasers any more, but there are lots of fast food delivery scooters on the roads. A little surprised there arent more visible clampdowns on them, their riding is frightening to watch.

And nowadays lots of bicycle riders doing fast food delivery.
 
#32 ·
I sit on my bikes in front of the garage door to test main and dip patterns . I weigh about the same as the MOT tester have watched every test and only once failed to match the test board set on the stand in the test bay . Not all leds are made equal some are grawlix others closely match standard bulbs . Super bright lights are not always superior either try driving in fog with them !
 
#33 ·
Hi, Experiments with LED bulbs is most interesting. I started by shimming BPF bulbs. Used garage door for aiming screen & real life dark street. We don’t have street lights.
I soon learned the early version LED were pretty bad. Latest version are acceptable at best.
Even moving filament 64th of inch changes focus. Halogen build can be built to replicate filament since it is a filament. The filament is much brighter so works good.
LED can only get close to replicating filament. Really close is not good enough. For proper focus. However since the LED can be so much brighter even though out of focus can give more useful light. I’ve yet to see LED bulb that has proper spread/reach between high/low beam. That is today impossible using a BPF reflector & lens.
A LED specific reflector & lens is needed for LED headlights. Turn signals are often very forgiving. Tail & stoplight depending on lens.
So far as I know in USA most LED bulbs are not actually street legal. Authorities don’t seem to care.
Exhaust emissions are enforced in California pretty strongly. I was licensed for 43 years. All computer connected. State looks at readings. They know what is “correct” & cracked down on “clean piping” from different car! We had hot rod race motor. Then every 2 years swapped in correct smog motor for inspection.
Diesels were exempt for years. Now not unless really old. Yes owners are reinstalling the correct emission controls. I see this coming with motorcycles any time now. Global warming & all is in the fore front. Save those cats!
Don
 
#34 ·
The guy who does my car servicing and MOT's drinks (or did) at my local and we are reasonably friendly. He told me a year or two back that the intention was to link the whole MOT system machinery into the net. The idea being that dvla would see the MOT in real time or at least be able to play it back and check the test results and times that everything was tested.
My first MOT for a bike involved a bloke with a *** in his mouth (sorry Americans) walking around the bike poking things and the "brake test" was a winch that read a scale that stopped when the bike skidded while you sat on it. If you knew the trick you could dig your heels into the tarmac.
 
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