Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Slightly off topic but I went to the East Berlin motorcycle museum recently. Some interesting bikes with some aspects that recalled our good old triumphs. It was interesting to see fairly recent 500 CC two-stroke police and fire brigade bikes!

Interestingly there were lots of "Triumph" bicycles on the streets.

Thought about going on the BMW factory tour but they are booked months in advance.

Almost Amaranth red!


The Nacelle taken to its ultimate plasticky conclusion. And on a Trophy, of all models.


The old DKW/MZ did win 6 ISDT trophies though!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,588 Posts
Had one of thos MZ Trophys looong time ago - an experience that will live with me forevever - still cant decide if it was a good or a bad experience - another questionable "classic" that comands big money these days
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,528 Posts
A mate had an MZ Trophy
Interesting bike, I rode it once, which was enough.
But he really liked it and did a lot of miles on it
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,504 Posts
Hi,

the East Berlin motorcycle museum
Some interesting bikes with some aspects that recalled our good old triumphs.
lots of "Triumph" bicycles on the streets.
Hopefully, the motorcycle museum didn't tell you any of the following ... :whistle

Triumph was founded originally in London in 1886 as a bicycle-selling company by Siegfried Bettmann, an immigrant from Nürnberg (Nuremberg), Germany. In 1887, Bettmann was partnered by another German immigrant, Moritz Schulte, who persuaded Bettmann that the company should make its own bicycles. A manufacturing site in Coventry was bought in 1888 and Triumph bicycles were produced in Coventry from 1889. Triumph opened a second bicycle-making factory in Nürnberg in 1896.

Triumph produced its first motorcycle - using a Minerva engine - in Coventry in 1902 and Nürnberg in 1903. Triumph had developed its first engine by 1905 and, up to 1913, both the Coventry and Nürnberg factories built motorcycles with the same Triumph-developed engines. After 1913, Nürnberg developed its own 2-stroke engines, initially using the "Orial" marque name to avoid confusion with Coventry Triumph but, from the 1920's, "TWN" (Triumph Werke Nürnberg).

Between the World Wars, TWN developed a range of 2-stroke models between 125 and 350, as well as using Swiss MAG (Motosacoche) 350 and 500 4-stroke engines. The company continued to make 2-strokes between 50 and 350 after WW2 'til it was bought and merged with Adler in 1956. The company owner - Max Grundig - ceased motorcycle production in favour of typewriters and other office equipment (which is why I have a "Triumph" filing cabinet :D).

Coventry Triumph fared less-well in the 1930's. In 1921, the company had diversified again, into car making. In 1932(?), bicycle-making was sold to Raleigh. In 1936, motorcycle-making - although profitable - was closed, in order to invest more in (then loss-making) car production; however, that was taken over by Standard in 1939. More fortunately, Triumph motorcycle-making was bought by Jack Sangster (then owner of Ariel); he formed the Triumph Engineering Company and put Edward Turner in charge ...

Otoh, MZ was East German, born out of a part of DKW.

Regards,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
I had a BSA two stroke, a 175 Trail Bronc. My first Brit bike.
I've got a 1964 BSA 175cc two stroke trail bike. It says "Bantam" on the tank! Stored in our barn and hasn't been started in 40 years. Belonged to my dad and he used it like a packhorse when he went deer hunting. Has a huge sprocket on the rear and think it has 82 teeth. He used to hunt at high altitudes around 8000 feet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,588 Posts
The BSA Bantam sold for "off road" use was i believe the Bushman - mainly for export and i think a lot went to Oz - had a high level exhaust - rare here in UK - maybe not so rare elsewhere in the world -- could have used other names in different countries it was exported to

my first bike was a 1966 D7 DL 175 Bantam -- still remember its Reg number
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,528 Posts
A guy I was at college with had a Bushman. Until someone rear ended him at the lights and he slid up the tank, catching his wedding tackle in the handlebars then cranking the bars over as he hit the dirt. He walked oddly for a long while after the stitches came out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Hi,


Hopefully, the motorcycle museum didn't tell you any of the following ... :whistle

Triumph was founded originally in London in 1886 as a bicycle-selling company by Siegfried Bettmann, an immigrant from Nürnberg (Nuremberg), Germany. In 1887, Bettmann was partnered by another German immigrant, Moritz Schulte, who persuaded Bettmann that the company should make its own bicycles. A manufacturing site in Coventry was bought in 1888 and Triumph bicycles were produced in Coventry from 1889. Triumph opened a second bicycle-making factory in Nürnberg in 1896.

Triumph produced its first motorcycle - using a Minerva engine - in Coventry in 1902 and Nürnberg in 1903. Triumph had developed its first engine by 1905 and, up to 1913, both the Coventry and Nürnberg factories built motorcycles with the same Triumph-developed engines. After 1913, Nürnberg developed its own 2-stroke engines, initially using the "Orial" marque name to avoid confusion with Coventry Triumph but, from the 1920's, "TWN" (Triumph Werke Nürnberg).

Between the World Wars, TWN developed a range of 2-stroke models between 125 and 350, as well as using Swiss MAG (Motosacoche) 350 and 500 4-stroke engines. The company continued to make 2-strokes between 50 and 350 after WW2 'til it was bought and merged with Adler in 1956. The company owner - Max Grundig - ceased motorcycle production in favour of typewriters and other office equipment (which is why I have a "Triumph" filing cabinet :D).

Coventry Triumph fared less-well in the 1930's. In 1921, the company had diversified again, into car making. In 1932(?), bicycle-making was sold to Raleigh. In 1936, motorcycle-making - although profitable - was closed, in order to invest more in (then loss-making) car production; however, that was taken over by Standard in 1939. More fortunately, Triumph motorcycle-making was bought by Jack Sangster (then owner of Ariel); he formed the Triumph Engineering Company and put Edward Turner in charge ...

Otoh, MZ was East German, born out of a part of DKW.

Regards,
What an interesting read, good on ya. Never too late to learn something new,
cheers Mikk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,647 Posts
I've got 4 Triumph Tigress scooters. 2 have the 175cc Villiers 2 stroke motors. So Triumph did produce a 'motorcycle' with a 2 stroke motor albeit in scooter form and with a proprietary motor.

The other 2 have the 250cc Triumph 4 stroke motors.
None are going right now...the plan is to make one good one out of the 4 and then sell what is left over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
Triumph did actually have two stroke models early on. The 225cc Type LW Junior was introduced in 1913, and after WW1, carried on into the early '20's. The public referred to this model as the " Baby Triumph.
In the early '30's, budget taxation by weight was changed to engine capacity. Triumph produced two models ( XV/1), of 98cc and 150cc. These engines were Villiers.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,504 Posts
Triumph Tigress scooters.
250cc Triumph 4 stroke motors.
Edward Turner-designed, all-alloy OHC engine available with electric-starter and 12V electrics, first displayed in October 1958 at GB's major motorcycle show, first produced a year later.

When Honda started exporting first to the US and then GB around the same time, it was a range of all-alloy OHC-engined motorcycles with electric starters. While packaging the Tigress very obviously just for women, Triumph offered the 200 cc. Tiger Cub, BSA the 175 cc. Bantam and 250 cc. C15 and their entire ranges with 6V electrics for real men.

There were the 2-stroke twin Ariel Arrows, but BSA wouldn't spend the money to fix either the shonky styling or the engine tune ...

Then unfortunately, real women wouldn't actually pay money for what they were being offered by Triumph and BSA, Tigress production ceased in 1964. Meantime, real men continued to be offered the Tiger Cub by Triumph, the Bantam and C15 by BSA, the Arrows by Ariel and entire ranges with 6V electrics ...

:SadSigh

Ok, the 250 Tigress engine couldn't have gone directly into a motorcycle, but Turner was supposedly good at marketing and was hardly a talentless designer himself nor short of other designers or manufacturing capacity ... :Not again

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
Interestingly, Brian Martin, when he was with BSA, built a trials prototype with a Triumph Tigress engine. Apparently, this showed some promise, but Edward Turner was less than impressed and ordered it to be sawn up.
A picture of this machine can be found on page 96 of Don Morley's book, "Classic British Trials Bikes ".
I have seen photos of such machines built privately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
They had a few of the DKW RT 125 bikes that the Bantam (and the Harley Hummer along with others) were copied from as war reparations.



Apparently, the Soviets moved whole factories, including the key staff, to Russia from east Berlin just after the war...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,351 Posts
Yes, my Trail Bronc was a Bantam. They must have used this name in the States. This thread has also pulled forth an old memory. My first bicycle with gears, a 3 speed hub, was a Triumph given to me by my uncle. What an improvement on the hills that was !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
A guy I was at college with had a Bushman. Until someone rear ended him at the lights and he slid up the tank, catching his wedding tackle in the handlebars then cranking the bars over as he hit the dirt. He walked oddly for a long while after the stitches came out
Sounds funny, but yea, it'll hurt. whats more is in the UK the cops are taking to rear ending the current moped thieves, thats OK if they are thieves, but can't help but feel it'll encourage arrogant drivers to emulate on bikers?

(Sorry, miles of the original post)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,202 Posts
Now lets not forget the fabulous Triumph Tina. I had one to ride around the car park near the local docks. Awesome power from its 2 stroke engine with belt drive and centrifugal clutch. It was killed when the kickstart failed to work and it could not be bump started. Into the sea it went. We were about 14 years old back then and it was like having a race bike after our bicycles.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
As StuartMac said, we have Ariel owner Jack Sangster & the Ariel design team that he moved into Triumph, to thank for the Triumph twins.

Sangster later sold on Ariel/Triumph to BSA. To repay Sangster & Ariel, BSA designed & produced the most hideous 2 stroke monstrosity that ever came out of any British motorcycle factory gates & put the Ariel name on it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_3_(moped)
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top