[StuartMac]

Hi Wol, K,

W1 - BROWN/BLACK? WIRE FROM HORN BUTTON

:nod

how they mounted the relay in the frame.

i have found two options - pics attatched

Bigger picture, :nah second picture, maybe (it's too small to be sure and the wiring's been done with Bodger's Terminals); on the twins, it was always a complete assembly of relay and horns, attached to the underside of the front tank mounting bracket ... with two 1/4" bolts ... :Not again

i am going to use the other position

What horns are you actually using?

The two earliest iterations of the Clearhooters (shown in the '69 and '70 parts books) were heavy (they were basically car horns) and Meriden attached each horn to the bracket and then the bracket to the frame with a couple of the aforementioned 1/4" bolts. The longest-lasting of the Clearhooters (because they were the lightest) were the ones fitted to '71-on T150's and Rocket 3's; they would be correct on a '69 or '70 twin (but agitate the bobblies) because Triumph and BSA replaced so many of the earlier ones under warranty. arn However, working versions of any Clearhooter are rocking-horse poo ... and they aren't very loud ... :bluduh

Genuine Lucas relay marked 6 RV - when i google it i find the POD in his infinite wisdom used 6RA as a reference for a multitude of relays

Correct. All 'original Lucas' parts had both some sort of 'group' reference ("6RA" in this case) and an individual reference - the '70 Triumph US-market 650 parts book has "33188".

If you Google "lucas 33188" and ignore all the obviously-brand-new 'Wassell Genuine Lucas" rubbish, you should see at least https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-33188-Horn-Relay-NOS-74-75-Trident-T120-69-70-NP608-/331405284984 and https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-GENUIN...G-BONNEVILLE-TRIDENT-ROCKET-III-/263933217281, both with just the three separate terminals.

'Original Lucas' did also make 6RA relays with four separate terminals - the additional one is marked W2; with W1, they have a separate supply and return from C1/C2 - but Lucas gave 'em different 5-figure individual references.

with 4 conns so no help

Brown/Blue simply needs to be connected to W2 as well as C2.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Wol,

What horns ?

Japanese Nikko YP. :thumb They're available as aftermarket accessories and they were fitted to some late-1970's/early-1980's Suzis; recommended on TOL several times over the years as Clearhooter substitutes, some owners even paint 'em black.

will be looking out for some "proper" ones - but prices are scarey!

As I say, unfortunately 'cos they're rocking-horse poo. Original "'69" ones - pan-shaped plastic cover - had a design fault, in that there was an unplated steel washer in the centre of the diaphragm, which rusted and trashed the diaphragm ... arn

Correct "'70" ones - dome-shaped steel cover - have an oblong trumpet opening. Afaict, these were peculiar to Triumphs and BSA's, the more-common car ones have a triangular trumpet opening; relatively cheap at car autojumbles, Triumph and BSA owners will try to persuade you out of lots of money for 'em. But they're as heavy as '69 ones; if you find a pair of either and want to fit them, I advise securing 'em with cable ties as well the bolts - when the inevitable happens to the bolts, at least the horn won't go bouncing down the road.

Back in the naughties, Burton Bike Bits set out to have new '69 and '70 Clearhooters made ... They had a batch of each made in NZ ... in Christchurch ... just before the big 2010 earthquake ... :Not again

Floating around t'internet for years have been claims that some Triumphs and BSA's were fitted with twin Lucas 6H's. Not impossible as long as a 6H's mounting bracket has two 1/4" ID holes closer together than, and in addition to, the usual two 5/16" ID holes; just the latter on their own are further apart than any Clearhooter's mounting. And two 6H's won't give you a Clearhooter pair's combination of high and low notes ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Adam,

In my Trident I have the same relay but with 5 connectors

Uh-uh. I posted "four separate terminals", which is what you've listed; C1 is just a double terminal, which is why it's convenient to connect the two separate horn supply wires to it.

C 1 is double going to horns,
C 2 is hot double white wire,
W 1 is purple wire from a horn button
W 2 is double red wire ( battery + )
I understand from Stuart post it should be another hot white wire or not ?
I didn't have my horns installed yet, so doesn't know is this set up works or not.

'71-on (e.g. your Trident) horn/relay wiring is different from pre-'71 (e.g. Wol's '70 T120R) horn wiring:-

. Fundamentally, pre-'71, the horn/s could be sounded irrespective of whether the ignition was on or off; '71-on, it/they could only be sounded with the ignition on.

. C2-C1 is the horns supply; '71-'74 C2 has a White wire (only "hot" when the ignition switch is on), pre-'71 C2 has a Brown/Blue wire (unswitched "hot" directly from battery -ve).

. The three-separate-terminal 6RA relay used only in '69 and '70 is odd in that C2 is also the supply for W1 (Brown/Black wire to the horn button). Pressing the button completes the relay switching circuit simply by connecting the button to the handlebar (through the mounting screws ), then it's a Lucas 'magic earth' through sundry bits of bike to an attached Red wire somewhere.

. The four-separate-terminal 6RA relay is more conventional in that the switched (C1-C2) is completely-separate from the switching (W1-W2); '71-on, the handlebar horn button is supplied by a White wire, the wire from the horn button to relay W1 is (should be) Lucas/British Standard Purple/Black, the Red wire on relay W2 is simply the switching circuit return to battery +ve.

Wol and anyone else battling with the Mickey-Mouse pre-'71 horn button: the 'magic earth' can be improved by attaching a Red wire inside the horn button body, threading it beside the other horn/dipswitch wires and connecting it to existing harness Red wires.

Hth.

Regards.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Wol,

thanks for the tip about strengthening the bracket

Not guilty, that was @KADUTZ.

been aware of breakages relating to the twin horn assy but never known "wot broke" -- this is the first twin horn assy i have said so never previously though about confirming where the failure occurs

Mmmm ... around the time my T150 came to me with just one non-working HF80, I was considering the Clearhooters arrangement for my T100 (it notionally being a R). Having acquired a pair of the car domed Clearhooters for the T150 and seen the twins' standard bracket, even I could work out it was always A Dumb Idea; whoever signed it off for '69 was clearly on a promise that night ...

Fwiw, since acquiring a Honda fitted with twin Fiamms, and seeing how high wandering drivers and their passengers jump even on the motorway, > all my bikes except the T150 have been fitted with them - T160's off the frame lug above the one used for the twins' front head-steadies, T100 on longer front tank mounting studs. Each pair of Fiamms came with a 'cube' relay - T160's mounted with other relays in the original underseat tools compartment, T100 where your earlier larger image shows a 6RA.

If I were really keen of having something that looks like the original twins' arrangement, I think I'd first find a metal-basher willing to make up the bracket in something thicker than standard, rubber-mount it on the frame (possibly with 5/16" bolts?), mount only lightweight (but loud) horns and save more weight by hiding a cube relay in the headlamp shell?

Hth.

Regards,

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Adam,

excellent answer like always - yes my horn button is purple black and now I have better understanding of 2 different relays working.

Thank you, pleased I could help.

Regards,

 

[StuartMac]

Hi Wol,

A suggestion - turn the relay upside down.

The least waterproof part of the relay is the junction between the metal case and the terminals 'board'. As it is in your picture, any water landing on the terminals board is actually retained by the edge of the case, the only place it can drain is into the relay, from which it can't escape. arn

I would mount the relay the other way up, thread the wires to/from the relay through the space between it and the main bracket and use 'flag' terminals on the ends of the wires.

will no be too surprised if the horn itself makes a break for freedom at some time

Drill a small hole in an unimportant part of each horn and secure each to a hole in the main bracket with a cable-tie?

Hth.

Regards,