[gabbydad]

With the ability to turn off the 02 Sensors via this software, can I just unplug the cables connected to the pipes and tuck the plugs under the tank? Do I still need to get resistors, etc?

 

[Forchetto]

I had resistors in mine but have now removed them and disabled the sensors with TuneECU. I covered the open end of the conectors in heat-shrinkable sleeving and sealed the ends to stop damp corroding the terminals, but wrapping them in insulating tape would do just as well.

Then tuck them away behind the frame tubes, tied with a ty-wrap.

Get some M12 x 1.5 mm thread pitch x 10 mm long bolts + 12 mm copper or aluminium sealing washers to close off the bungs in the pipes.

 

[gabbydad]

Forchetto, I was hoping you were around. You're answer was what I was hoping to hear.

Now, my Arrows came with these neat little plugs. Assuming they're fine now?

Next, I'm thinking whether to remove AI or not. I'm just not reading enough compelling reasons to perform that, not to mention fully removing the airbox.
Perhaps when a tried and true custom map becomes available....

 

[Forchetto]

Forchetto, I was hoping you were around. You're answer was what I was hoping to hear.

Now, my Arrows came with these neat little plugs. Assuming they're fine now?

Next, I'm thinking whether to remove AI or not. I'm just not reading enough compelling reasons to perform that, not to mention fully removing the airbox.
Perhaps when a tried and true custom map becomes available....

The Arrows have no catalisers in them, unlike the OEM pipes, so the AI is doing nothing more than raising your exhaust temperature and possibly creating lots of popping sounds when you decelerate. The AI is part of the emissions gear but it needs the catalisers to work. As you don't have them it's doing nothing useful.

You can also disable the AI with the TuneECU software and leave all the gubbins still attached to the engine until such time as you want to remove it.

 

[DEcosse]

... You can also disable the AI with the TuneECU software and leave all the gubbins still attached to the engine until such time as you want to remove it.

According to Alain, the SAI itself is not deactivated, just the 'sense' which triggers the MIL - so leaving everything attached would still have the SAI functioning.
So if all the hardware still in situ, you would at least have to physically disconnect the solenoid valve electrically. i.e unplug it

(you may have intended this Forchetto - just clarifying the situation)

 

[gabbydad]

OK I physically unplugged the OS sensors, re-downloaded map 20313 de-selecting (turning off) the O2 sensors, but I got the error codes 031, 051 which note the OS plugs are not grounded. I thought I didn't need to install the resistors to "fool" the system. Could it be I still need to do this? Or perhaps I missed a step.

I started the bike and it ran like hell, backfiring, etc...

I re-attached the sensors, cleared the error codes and re started the bike which ran fine.

Also another kudos for the functionality of TUNE ECU. As I mentioned in another post, I trashed my oil cooler and installed an aftermarket that doesn't have a solution for the temp sensor. I took electrical wire and placed the sensor by the fins of the engine jug.

I then started the bike up linked to TUNE ECU. I was able to watch the bike get up to operating temp, so now I'm feeling ok that the bike will run correctly.

Without this software my options were the dealer, or trial and error with a infrared thermometer which wouldn't be as accurate.

With TUNE ECU I'm actually get the temp that the ECU is sensing, so there's nothing more accurate.

 

[GDCobra]

Hi, can anyone outline to me what the benefit is of removing the O2 sensors and also what is the downside? I thought the point of having them was so the system could fine tune the fueling as a closed loop system rather than simply relying on the map which will only be configured for the parameters in affect at the time of tuning (and probably not created for a specific bike when copying from one to another). Wouln't idle and constant throttle situations possibly be worse with no sensors?

Also with the sensor I have for my car project I have been told to remove it from the system if it is not used as it is bad for the sensor to be in the exhaust system when not powered up. Mind you that is a wideband sensor and I'm guessing the hardware here is narrowband, perhaps that makes a difference?

 

[Forchetto]

OK I physically unplugged the OS sensors, re-downloaded map 20313 de-selecting (turning off) the O2 sensors, but I got the error codes 031, 051 which note the OS plugs are not grounded. I thought I didn't need to install the resistors to "fool" the system. Could it be I still need to do this? Or perhaps I missed a step.

I started the bike and it ran like hell, backfiring, etc...

I re-attached the sensors, cleared the error codes and re started the bike which ran fine.

I have an SE as well and have disabled the sensors without trouble. No light or error codes at all and no resistors.

Are you sure you have disabled them?. It took me ages to fathom out how to do it on the software, kept clicking on the little squares to try and remove the "ticks".

Someone cleverer than me pointed out that you have to double click on them to disable (on both sensors), or place cursor over the sensor legends, right click and select disable. Make sure there are no "ticks" on both the little squares before downloading the revised map back into the ECU.

 

[Forchetto]

Hi, can anyone outline to me what the benefit is of removing the O2 sensors and also what is the downside? I thought the point of having them was so the system could fine tune the fueling as a closed loop system rather than simply relying on the map which will only be configured for the parameters in affect at the time of tuning (and probably not created for a specific bike when copying from one to another). Wouln't idle and constant throttle situations possibly be worse with no sensors?

Also with the sensor I have for my car project I have been told to remove it from the system if it is not used as it is bad for the sensor to be in the exhaust system when not powered up. Mind you that is a wideband sensor and I'm guessing the hardware here is narrowband, perhaps that makes a difference?

On these bikes the narrowband sensors only operate in close-loop mode below about 6% of throttle opening and during steady low speed cruising. At any other times the system goes open-loop.

The role of the sensors is not to make the bike run good, it's to keep emissions levels within Euro3 requirements. Removing them improves low speed running with reduced surging and a smoother throttle response.

If you intend to do any sort of tuning or re-mapping the sensors will interfere with whatever AF ratios you try to obtain by re-mapping, always trying to keep the AFR at the prescribed 14.5:1 or so for minimum emissions.

As you say it's best to remove them altogether to prevent them being coked up and damaged in case you ever want to put them back. They also protrude into the downpipe a fair bit, spoiling gas flow.

 

[GDCobra]

On these bikes the narrowband sensors only operate in close-loop mode below about 6% of throttle opening and during steady low speed cruising. At any other times the system goes open-loop.

The role of the sensors is not to make the bike run good, it's to keep emissions levels within Euro3 requirements. Removing them improves low speed running with reduced surging and a smoother throttle response.

If you intend to do any sort of tuning or re-mapping the sensors will interfere with whatever AF ratios you try to obtain by re-mapping, always trying to keep the AFR at the prescribed 14.5:1 or so for minimum emissions.

As you say it's best to remove them altogether to prevent them being coked up and damaged in case you ever want to put them back. They also protrude into the downpipe a fair bit, spoiling gas flow.

Thanks Forchetto, I guess that makes sense if the sensors have only been included for emissions rather than engine behaviour. The O2 sensor on my Honda was removed when I fitted a Power Commander and the bike runs much smoother particularly having removed s surging at low speed constant throttle (30MPH through town for instance) obviously I don't know how much of this is down to the improved mapping and how much due to running in open loop mode but it is a great improvement in throttle control.

 

[gabbydad]

I have an SE as well and have disabled the sensors without trouble. No light or error codes at all and no resistors.

Are you sure you have disabled them?. It took me ages to fathom out how to do it on the software, kept clicking on the little squares to try and remove the "ticks".

Someone cleverer than me pointed out that you have to double click on them to disable (on both sensors), or place cursor over the sensor legends, right click and select disable. Make sure there are no "ticks" on both the little squares before downloading the revised map back into the ECU.

I had been doing it correctly BUT
here's what I found. I downloaded the map with the AI, and both OS off. Again bike idled rough and spat out a blue flame on de-cel.

I then turned the AI back on, leaving the OS off and sure enough it didn't backfire. I do note a deeper tone with all else being equal except the OS off.

 

[Forchetto]

I might have been leading you up the garden path...I have the Arrow 2 into 2 map installed, (20264 for 09 SE). Now this map makes fewer calls on the O2 sensors for their signals. If you look at the AFR map you'll see that it only calls for close loop 14.5:1 AFR in a very limited area, just the blue bit, also note how much richer it is overall:

For contrast have a look at the standard map, (20187 for 09 SE) it calls for 14.5 in lots of places and over a wide area, meaning it might not be wise to disable the sensors without loading a different map. I hope someone else can chime in with an opinion on this. I'm using a Tuneboy screenshot for this, so no pretty colours:

 

[gabbydad]

Well specifically for me, I have the map loaded for Arrow 2 into 1 for the 09 SE (20313). And that's where I did all my work.

I actually didn't do anything with the original 20187

 

[Power-Tripp]

Turning the narrowband Lambda (O2) sensor off will require a good bit of mapping changes for best results. Otherwise you are relying on mapping that the calibrators provided while expecting the sensor and ECU trims to correct to ~Lambda=1.0 (~AFR 14.57) under many conditions.

When many mention turning this sensor off, it is normally done when fully mapping the ECU with it off.
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". This is the first rule that many learn when getting more and more adjustability with a tuning solution. Don't fall into the trap of altering things with no way of determining what the outcome may be other than with the uncalibrated sphincter on your backside - this is often fooled.

 

[gabbydad]

Turning the narrowband Lambda (O2) sensor off will require a good bit of mapping changes for best results. Otherwise you are relying on mapping that the calibrators provided while expecting the sensor and ECU trims to correct to ~Lambda=1.0 (~AFR 14.57) under many conditions.

When many mention turning this sensor off, it is normally done when fully mapping the ECU with it off.
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". This is the first rule that many learn when getting more and more adjustability with a tuning solution. Don't fall into the trap of altering things with no way of determining what the outcome may be other than with the uncalibrated sphincter on your backside - this is often fooled.

Valid point which I respect. One of the nice features of the Tune ECU is that I can reverse any adjustment I've made.

One metric I've been judging by, is how the bike runs. For my purposes, the Arrow 2 into 1 map for my bike along with the OS turned off has produced a really nice running bike based on the 40 miles I drove afterwards. So that being said, outside of alot of the technical terms that are outside of my understanding, I'd think, a good running bike would be a valid way to judge, no?

 

[GDCobra]

Turning the narrowband Lambda (O2) sensor off will require a good bit of mapping changes for best results. Otherwise you are relying on mapping that the calibrators provided while expecting the sensor and ECU trims to correct to ~Lambda=1.0 (~AFR 14.57) under many conditions.

When many mention turning this sensor off, it is normally done when fully mapping the ECU with it off.
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". This is the first rule that many learn when getting more and more adjustability with a tuning solution. Don't fall into the trap of altering things with no way of determining what the outcome may be other than with the uncalibrated sphincter on your backside - this is often fooled.

Thanks PT, that's what I was worried about, I couldn't quite understand how it would be OK to simply turn off something that was there when the map was created without accounting for its effect. Looks like I was correct to worry.

And I certainly don't like my sphincter being fooled!

 

[gabbydad]

I might have been leading you up the garden path...I have the Arrow 2 into 2 map installed, (20264 for 09 SE). Now this map makes fewer calls on the O2 sensors for their signals. If you look at the AFR map you'll see that it only calls for close loop 14.5:1 AFR in a very limited area, just the blue bit, also note how much richer it is overall:

For contrast have a look at the standard map, (20187 for 09 SE) it calls for 14.5 in lots of places and over a wide area, meaning it might not be wise to disable the sensors without loading a different map. I hope someone else can chime in with an opinion on this. I'm using a Tuneboy screenshot for this, so no pretty colours:

Map 20313 is the one for the Arrow 2 into1. The 14.5 extends about 5 more columns more than your 2 into 2, but is still dramatically less than 20187 which obviously I had as well.

 

[Forchetto]

the uncalibrated sphincter on your backside - this is often fooled.

:laughhard

 

[nugpop]

On these bikes the narrowband sensors only operate in close-loop mode below about 6% of throttle opening and during steady low speed cruising. At any other times the system goes open-loop.

The role of the sensors is not to make the bike run good, it's to keep emissions levels within Euro3 requirements. Removing them improves low speed running with reduced surging and a smoother throttle response.

If you intend to do any sort of tuning or re-mapping the sensors will interfere with whatever AF ratios you try to obtain by re-mapping, always trying to keep the AFR at the prescribed 14.5:1 or so for minimum emissions.

As you say it's best to remove them altogether to prevent them being coked up and damaged in case you ever want to put them back. They also protrude into the downpipe a fair bit, spoiling gas flow.

Hello Forchetto, I have a 17 Street Scrambler that is throwing up O2 sensor codes and running horribly as a result of defaulting to "limp home mode" once it warms up. Codes are coming up on both sensors and it's unlikely that both went bad. Would disabling the sensors through a PC fix the issue, or would the ECU still pick it up? Thanks...it's been driving me bonkers.

 

[DEcosse]

Disabling does not actually disable the sensor, only the error so you would actually have to physically remove them (don't just disconnect or you will permanently ruin them without the heaters being on)
But you really should find out what is going on - it is certainly unusual if both sensors were bad - I don't have a schematic for that model unfortunately but you would be looking for something common (like heater voltage)
What exactly are the error codes you are getting - is it heater or ???