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If you make those changes to the EVx tables, make sure you increase fuel in the L1/L2 tables for the same areas.
Surely that would be the F1/F2 tables for full throttle?

Even then I'm not sure you will need to change them, if you look at the original throttle maps in the rider modes the butterflies are fully open with the throttle twist grip at 80% apart from the 7000/7500rpm curves. So after approx 80% throttle there will be no need to add any extra fuel because the butterflies are already fully open and if you look at the F1 F2 tables that's how they are. Every single curve levels off after 82% including the 7000/7500 so if anything you are changing the throttle map to better suit the F1 F2 tables.
 

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Yes, it was cyl1 and 2 fuel trims and ign trims for all gears... no afr seems standard. I will post ecu map for you to talk over with your tech... i will road test and let you know how it goes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk6xwq8isv58zu0/30040cammedMap-1.hex?dl=0

I meant cyl 1, cyl 2 and ignition mapping
I looked at this map and compared it to the oem 30042 and found it was identical in every way except the 1645 throttle openings. Found that interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Did you check the trim tables??

Yes, it was cyl1 and 2 fuel trims and ign trims for all gears... no afr seems standard. I will post ecu map for you to talk over with your tech... i will road test and let you know how it goes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk6xwq8isv58zu0/30040cammedMap-1.hex?dl=0

I meant cyl 1, cyl 2 and ignition mapping
I looked at this map and compared it to the oem 30042 and found it was identical in every way except the 1645 throttle openings. Found that interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
@ianadell Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the F trim applied. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in F tables and I tables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0



Did you check the trim tables??

Yes, it was cyl1 and 2 fuel trims and ign trims for all gears... no afr seems standard. I will post ecu map for you to talk over with your tech... i will road test and let you know how it goes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk6xwq8isv58zu0/30040cammedMap-1.hex?dl=0

I meant cyl 1, cyl 2 and ignition mapping
I looked at this map and compared it to the oem 30042 and found it was identical in every way except the 1645 throttle openings. Found that interesting.
 

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@ianadell Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the ftrim accepted. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in Ftables and Itables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0
Just a quick question, I haven't done any modified fuel or ignition maps yet only throttle mapping, if I import some power Commander fuel and ignition maps they modify the F& I trim tables, do I then download the map to the ECU and will it then look at these trim tables and apply the changes?
Or do I need to tick " apply F trims globally", I'm guessing that takes the figures from the trim tables and modifies the actual fuelling table, and then do I download it to the ECU?
Thanks:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Swipe to map page.... then at top of screen press map... a dropdown box will appear..... choose parameters....you can then set rev limiter out to 7800rpm.

My base map is different yes: 30041
Loaded also the pvm files into tune ecu
I think there is some adaption to be made above 7000rpm and the throttle limiter...
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Make sure you do not have apply F Trims globally box checked or it will apply same table to different cylinders. What you wwant is for the trims in the pcm file to be applied to each cylinder as seperate entities.

Import the pcm files, then when you have them in the map you can use "apply F Trims" from the dropdown box that is found under the "edit" button at the top of the map screen.

Then save the map as whatever you want to name it and load it to your ecu by using the reprogramme button which will appear under the Ecu header after you have connected your device to the ecu via bluetooth.

Hope this helps... this is the process i am using... someone else may onow better.
If you are not running a hot cam then you might like to see @TheDivaDanielle thread on this site under ecu tuning for wc twins

https://www.triumphrat.net/ecm-and-fi-tuning-help-tips-and-tricks/154167-merging-pc-maps-into-tuneecu.html#/topics/961626?page=10


she has made a good effort in turning out maps for these bikes which are not running cams. She also published some in thruxton1200/1200r owners group on face book. Her username there is @danielle koran

[QUOTE="Scottty, post: 2004011588, member: 425290"][QUOTE="Kiwi Dave, post: 2004011584, member: 412318"][MENTION=403410]ianadell
Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the ftrim accepted. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in Ftables and Itables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0[/quote]

Just a quick question, I haven't done any modified fuel or ignition maps yet only throttle mapping, if I import some power Commander fuel and ignition maps they modify the F& I trim tables, do I then download the map to the ECU and will it then look at these trim tables and apply the changes?
Or do I need to tick " apply F trims globally", I'm guessing that takes the figures from the trim tables and modifies the actual fuelling table, and then do I download it to the ECU?
Thanks<img src="http://www.triumphrat.net/images/TriumphRat_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />[/QUOTE]
 

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Make sure you do not have apply F Trims globally box checked or it will apply same table to different cylinders. What you wwant is for the trims in the pcm file to be applied to each cylinder as seperate entities.

Import the pcm files, then when you have them in the map you can use "apply F Trims" from the dropdown box that is found under the "edit" button at the top of the map screen.

Then save the map as whatever you want to name it and load it to your ecu by using the reprogramme button which will appear under the Ecu header after you have connected your device to the ecu via bluetooth.

Hope this helps... this is the process i am using... someone else may onow better.
If you are not running a hot cam then you might like to see @TheDivaDanielle thread on this site under ecu tuning for wc twins

https://www.triumphrat.net/ecm-and-fi-tuning-help-tips-and-tricks/154167-merging-pc-maps-into-tuneecu.html#/topics/961626?page=10


she has made a good effort in turning out maps for these bikes which are not running cams. She also published some in thruxton1200/1200r owners group on face book. Her username there is [MENTION=23624]danielle koran
Thanks, yeah I'm following that thread as well, I'm sort of doing a combination of Danielle's tune and some of my own ideas.
Just checking I've got this correct, I've just tried it and when I'm in F1 map and click apply fuel trims it loads the F1 trim , F2 trim and the I trim all at once because all the trim tables are now empty and the standard maps are modified. But if I clicked apply f trims globally it would have put the F1 trim in the F1 and F2 tables, is that correct?

One thing that I don't understand is why there are such large variations in the fuel maps for each cylinder, even on the standard map. I could understand that on a V-Twin with different exhaust and intake routing but surely a parallel twin everything is identical?
obviously the standard map has got to suit every bike so it must be something that's common across all the engines?

When you have a power commander tuned on a dyno do they map individual cylinders?
I've only seen them use afr probes in the exhaust silencer, do they take the standard O2 sensors out and put probes and each downpipe, what about bikes that only have one O2 sensor like my Daytona how would they map each cylinder?
 

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Because of the 270* crank its only a parallel twin on the outside...


.
 

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your dyno tech did a nice job

@ianadell Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the F trim applied. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in F tables and I tables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0
I was sure he did, the bike ran almost 140 km(86 miles ) on the dyno...
 

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Discussion Starter #51

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I understand that, but I thought that was more to do with primary balance and uneven firing order and so on.
I still don't understand why one cylinder needs different fuel than the next cylinder when they rotating at the same speed and drawing in the same amount of air?:frown2:
 

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Discussion Starter #53
It puzzles me as well .... but even standard oem maps reflect the difference. I guess someone will explain it in depth. Would be nice to know.... might try mr google


I understand that, but I thought that was more to do with primary balance and uneven firing order and so on.
I still don't understand why one cylinder needs different fuel than the next cylinder when they rotating at the same speed and drawing in the same amount of air?<img src="http://www.triumphrat.net/images/TriumphRat_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" />
 

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So I caught wind today that people I have blocked here for running their mouths and generally being jerks have done harsh criticisms about the tune work I did. I wanted to clear some things up. His claims feel pretty disingenuous because he hasn't put in the time I did.

First off, I've built engines small block v8's and LS v8's for my own cars. I've tuned my own cars in the past with HP Tuners. I also worked with the company partnered when Ford in developing their Mk3 Focus RS platform. You may have heard of them, they're called Mountune. I did testing for the ECU tuning, and validation testing for their aftermarket parts now available through Ford dealerships. I also was a Mercedes-Benz technician in my 20's until the light went off and I had enough of being a female in that ****ty testosterone filled environment and changed careers into IT.

My tuning for the 1200HP bikes started with a stock Thruxton tune. I then used the publicly available tables from Dynojet for the bike with a decat, air filter and silencers. I also had others collaborate and send me their personal PVM (power commander) files from their pro-tuned bikes. Tune ECU imports these files, there's no crazy conversions. I even had to throw out some because the tuners were lazy and didn't tune both cylinders.

So that's where the tune was. Stock with pro-tuned tables overlayed in.
I didn't change the timing or fueling to be unsafe or anything wild, because I wanted it safe.
I knew I couldn't out-engineer the engineers and the professionals for wide-open throttle tuning.

What I did focus on was improving driveability in where I could. Idle, light and not heavy throttle. I had over 60 revisions before I shared anything with anyone. As in I actually uploaded a map with mild changes, notated the result and continued to tweak. Nothing drastic, small moves at a time, and this was simply to get idle and low throttle regions better aligned with the range of adjustablity with the ECU's range.

For example, my tune commands a 14.1 AFR at idle and cruise. It's better for driveability and power. Stock it commanded 14.5 AFR for emissions and fuel economy. All of the power commander tunes tried to compensate by dumping bin drastically more fuel in those regions to achieve the same thing since they couldn't actually get into the ECU to have it ask for the right AFR.

I instead commanded the computer to give me the preferred AFR in the first place. Guess what stoichiometric AFR is for modern fuels? 14.1. Then I was able to actually reduce fuel demands because I had better control of it. All the areas I worked in are accurately readable by the stock narrow band sensors because they are in the stoichiometric range. Same stuff I did street tuning my GTO back in 2006 before I strapped it to the dyno.

I also never modified full throttle from the Power Commander derived fuel and timing changes other than adding fuel and timing and in where it was purposely reduced stock because of the forced reduced throttle on the stock tune.

Anyway, I could do on for hours about each little change, but there's a taste of it. I have put a lot of time and work into my efforts. having someone rip it apart feels ****ty.

As for me asking that if someone liked my work to chip in something via PayPal or Venmo, I'm sorry. I don't work anymore because I have a chronic blood cancer. I endure chemotherapy daily. I won't beat it, and it's going to kill me in due time, frankly I'm unsure how I've survived this long.

I thought maybe my loving spouse might appreciate me taking a little bit pressure off of them, by offering up my work that most people can just load up on their bikes and forget about it because the hard work was already put in my someone else over a month's time. But then again, I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head to use my work or pay me for it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

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So I caught wind today that people I have blocked here for running their mouths and generally being jerks have done harsh criticisms about the tune work I did. I wanted to clear some things up. His claims feel pretty disingenuous because he hasn't put in the time I did.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Perhaps it hasn't been said or said enough but I wanted to Thank you for working your tail off to help us out.

I haven't made any changes yet but I intend to shortly. I appreciate you having the patience and taking time to answer some my dumb questions.

Once again Thank you.

Jerry
 

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I understand that, but I thought that was more to do with primary balance and uneven firing order and so on.
I still don't understand why one cylinder needs different fuel than the next cylinder when they rotating at the same speed and drawing in the same amount of air?:frown2:
My own thoughts...
If each cylinder had its own totally separate exhaust system then the fuelling wouldn't need to be any different between cylinders. But with an unbalanced firing order coupled to a closely linked exhaust system the lead cylinder has the advantage of having a stronger negative pulse wave over the trailing one. So each cylinder needs slightly different filling (fuelling) to compensate.


.
 

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My own thoughts...
If each cylinder had its own totally separate exhaust system then the fuelling wouldn't need to be any different between cylinders. But with an unbalanced firing order coupled to a closely linked exhaust system the lead cylinder has the advantage of having a stronger negative pulse wave over the trailing one. So each cylinder needs slightly different filling (fuelling) to compensate.


.
Thanks, that makes sense, I suppose sharing an airbox could have an effect on the intake as well with the eneven pulses?
so if you had two separate downpipes and pod filters I guess the fuelling would be identical despite the firing order?
Does the uneven firing order and different fuel maps explain my lumpy or eneven idle, or is that just my bike:laugh2:
 

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Discussion Starter #58
To be clear I love the work you have done @TheDivaDanielle and I have been running your tunes in my bike with very good results.

I have recommended that people who do not have performance cams in their bike check out your work and have provided links to it.

The exciting thing for me in this thread is @julius200 has a cammed bike with PC V that has been worked on a dyno. He has graciously shared those trims with me as I also have a bike with performance cam.

Nothing that is going on here is designed to undermine or discredit you. If I saw a post on this thread that brought your character into question I would defend you as I have been a beneficiary of your hard work, correspondence, and care.

Kindest of Regards... Kiwi Dave

So I caught wind today that people I have blocked here for running their mouths and generally being jerks have done harsh criticisms about the tune work I did. I wanted to clear some things up. His claims feel pretty disingenuous because he hasn't put in the time I did.

First off, I've built engines small block v8's and LS v8's for my own cars. I've tuned my own cars in the past with HP Tuners. I also worked with the company partnered when Ford in developing their Mk3 Focus RS platform. You may have heard of them, they're called Mountune. I did testing for the ECU tuning, and validation testing for their aftermarket parts now available through Ford dealerships. I also was a Mercedes-Benz technician in my 20's until the light went off and I had enough of being a female in that ****ty testosterone filled environment and changed careers into IT.

My tuning for the 1200HP bikes started with a stock Thruxton tune. I then used the publicly available tables from Dynojet for the bike with a decat, air filter and silencers. I also had others collaborate and send me their personal PVM (power commander) files from their pro-tuned bikes. Tune ECU imports these files, there's no crazy conversions. I even had to throw out some because the tuners were lazy and didn't tune both cylinders.

So that's where the tune was. Stock with pro-tuned tables overlayed in.
I didn't change the timing or fueling to be unsafe or anything wild, because I wanted it safe.
I knew I couldn't out-engineer the engineers and the professionals for wide-open throttle tuning.

What I did focus on was improving driveability in where I could. Idle, light and not heavy throttle. I had over 60 revisions before I shared anything with anyone. As in I actually uploaded a map with mild changes, notated the result and continued to tweak. Nothing drastic, small moves at a time, and this was simply to get idle and low throttle regions better aligned with the range of adjustablity with the ECU's range.

For example, my tune commands a 14.1 AFR at idle and cruise. It's better for driveability and power. Stock it commanded 14.5 AFR for emissions and fuel economy. All of the power commander tunes tried to compensate by dumping bin drastically more fuel in those regions to achieve the same thing since they couldn't actually get into the ECU to have it ask for the right AFR.

I instead commanded the computer to give me the preferred AFR in the first place. Guess what stoichiometric AFR is for modern fuels? 14.1. Then I was able to actually reduce fuel demands because I had better control of it. All the areas I worked in are accurately readable by the stock narrow band sensors because they are in the stoichiometric range. Same stuff I did street tuning my GTO back in 2006 before I strapped it to the dyno.

I also never modified full throttle from the Power Commander derived fuel and timing changes other than adding fuel and timing and in where it was purposely reduced stock because of the forced reduced throttle on the stock tune.

Anyway, I could do on for hours about each little change, but there's a taste of it. I have put a lot of time and work into my efforts. having someone rip it apart feels ****ty.

As for me asking that if someone liked my work to chip in something via PayPal or Venmo, I'm sorry. I don't work anymore because I have a chronic blood cancer. I endure chemotherapy daily. I won't beat it, and it's going to kill me in due time, frankly I'm unsure how I've survived this long.

I thought maybe my loving spouse might appreciate me taking a little bit pressure off of them, by offering up my work that most people can just load up on their bikes and forget about it because the hard work was already put in my someone else over a month's time. But then again, I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head to use my work or pay me for it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

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@ianadell Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the F trim applied. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in F tables and I tables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0



Did you check the trim tables??

Yes, it was cyl1 and 2 fuel trims and ign trims for all gears... no afr seems standard. I will post ecu map for you to talk over with your tech... i will road test and let you know how it goes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk6xwq8isv58zu0/30040cammedMap-1.hex?dl=0

I meant cyl 1, cyl 2 and ignition mapping
I looked at this map and compared it to the oem 30042 and found it was identical in every way except the 1645 throttle openings. Found that interesting.
thank you for sharing your tune with me Dave. I don't have a Cam just yet so I'm not going to put it in my bike. I like seeing all the different changes and reverse engineering the tune. It's helping me get used to this system.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
ALL GOOD @ianadell i am not atuning guru it is just stuff i have cribbed from TuneECU and @julius200 who shared his dyno tuned power commander trims. I will need to do AFR dyno run myself to confirm it isn't running too lean at pace and it is good you are adopting a cautious approach. I thank you for your civility it really is appreciated

@ianadell Here is my current map. The only difference is that it has the F trim applied. If you compare with std oem map you will see differences in F tables and I tables. Seat of the pants dyno advises that it is much stronger in the mid range and lacks nothing up top.... need to find a good long straight to try out top end.. but i like this tune... @julius200 your dyno tech did a nice job on the trims.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nzc7b7am1sisnt/30040cammedtrimsappliedMap-1.hex?dl=0



Did you check the trim tables??

Yes, it was cyl1 and 2 fuel trims and ign trims for all gears... no afr seems standard. I will post ecu map for you to talk over with your tech... i will road test and let you know how it goes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk6xwq8isv58zu0/30040cammedMap-1.hex?dl=0

I meant cyl 1, cyl 2 and ignition mapping
I looked at this map and compared it to the oem 30042 and found it was identical in every way except the 1645 throttle openings. Found that interesting.
thank you for sharing your tune with me Dave. I don't have a Cam just yet so I'm not going to put it in my bike. I like seeing all the different changes and reverse engineering the tune. It's helping me get used to this system.
 
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