Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

21 - 38 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi Will
I think someone may have their wires crossed here. I did not post any pictures of my D6 timing issues although I did refer in my post to pictures/photos that I had sent to Jack Lilley Triumph. (Very knowledgeable and always willing to help) Unfortunately I no longer have these images so am unable even to post these. I think the photos that you seek were from a previous post from R100PILOT.

I remember seeing his post and the images within it. It was his post that prompted mine as the issues were similar.

Good luck,
Carl (still got the D6 but no time to ride)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
TT600 Valve Adjustement re-posted

Hi All after sending emails (with no response) and searching the web. I have found this thread on a different site. http://www.zimmerframeracing.com



MODs:

Could some one please update the orginal post. with a direct link to HERE...?



Part 1 - Reposted


Quoted from Original Site....
http://www.zimmerframeracing.com/tt_valves.htm


2001 Triumph TT600
Valve Adjustment and Major Service
All the usual caveats apply - don't try this at home, RTFM before doing anything, all service should be performed by a Trained Triumph Service Technician, take lots of pictures and notes so you know how everything goes back together, etc.

That said, it's a fiddly though not impossible job. The main thing is to take your time and be thorough. Double-check and triple-check everything.

First, a little backstory: I bought my TT600 years ago as my first track bike, and it's served me well.





I paid $2K, and for four years, I never did anything more to the engine than change the oil and it ran like a top. Then I started riding my racing SV more. Then I crashed the SV and broke my thumb. Meanwhile, the TT sat, neglected but not complaining. Finally, with a fresh battery but the old gas, I tried to fire her up. It took a while, but she finally started and ran great once warm. Every time I tried to start it after, though, she didn't wanna. And when she finally did start, she had a hinky idle and some throttle weirdness until thoroughly warm. So I decided that it was time for a thorough service: air filter, plugs, fluids and the dreaded Valve Adjustment. I've done locknut adjusters on my airhead BMW and Gill's 250 Ninja. I've done sliding rocker arms and shims on a big Kawasaki ZRX 1200 (click here to see that job). But this required taking out the cams. It scared me. But it had to be done, so...

I got it on the stand and on the carpet. Fortunately, my garage is air-conditioned, which makes a huge difference in my comfort level, and therefore my patience level, which is very important for this sorta thing. The right side of the tank is dented - was that way when I bought it. Found a decent used tank on e-bay for $90, so that got replaced too.



Fairings, tank, airbox and seat off.



Revealing throttle bodies and a lot of tubing and connectors.



The radiator had to be moved, but not re-moved, to get the valve cover out. Obviously, we have a li'l leak at the gasket. I suspended the radiator with some zip-tie to keep stress off the hoses. It's a tight fit, but the cover will come off through the right side.



Before I even got to the valves, I found a new mess.



That's one of the tubes from the Idle Air Control stepper motor to the throttle bodies. There are four of 'em. And every damn one was cracked at both ends, which would explain the starting/idling problem. A new set was ordered, then backordered. Just in case, I got some vacuum hose from an auto parts store and improvised, replacing the old rubber.

There's also a similar tube running from the FI back to the ECU. It was completely knackered. I'm surprised the thing ran at all.

The coils and plugs came out and the valve cover off.



Revealing the guts. This is a cam and bucket. To check clearance, you put it in second or third gear and rotate the engine with the back tyre until the pointy end of the cam is pointing away from its respective bucket, then measure with the feeler gauge. That part's easy.



I was hoping everything would be within acceptable tolerances, but I had four of 16 out of spec (tight). Two on the intake side, two on the exhaust. That meant the cams had to come out, which sucked. But the rest of the valves were on the tight side of tolerance anyway, so I figured I'd re-shim everything.

Now, taking the cams out and putting them in ain't that hard. It's a buncha bolts, and you gotta do 'em in sequence, and a li'l at a time, like a half or full turn. Easy does it, or things further inside start bumping into each other.

Before that, though, you have to turn the engine so that cylinders 1 and 4 are at top dead center. Easy enough, since there are handy arrows and markings on the cam sprockets and the crankshaft. Remove the crankcase breather cover and turn the crank so that the arrow lines up with the the split between the case and cylinder, and the markings on the cam sprockets line up with the top of the head. See the manual for details, but here's how it looks.

First, the cam sprocket marks - lined up nicely.



The crank, however, did not align like the manual says it should. This would be a source of consternation, but more on that later. The important thing is, I took pictures of all of this before disassembling anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
Part 2 - Reposted

Quoted from Original page - http://www.zimmerframeracing.com/tt_valves.htm

Next, you take out the cam chain tensioner (simple - see the manual) and top rub/retaining plate, and then you start unscrewing the cam caps. This is fiddly, since while 1 and 4 are at TDC, the valves on the other cylinders are in various stages of actuation, so there's pressure on the cam and valves. Patience is required. Progress is slow and methodical. Once everything's undone, the chain gets pulled off and the cam comes out. You remove one cam at a time, according to the Holy Book of Triumph. I removed the intake cam first, then exhaust. The cams, caps and bolts got laid out in the order they were removed. Here's the first one



When the cam out, you're facing this. With the bits out, the buckets and shims are easy to get to.



The buckets come out and the shims replaced one at a time. This is the top of the valve stem, shim removed.



Beneath each of those buckets is a little tiny shim, 7.48 mm in diameter. They tend to stay with their bucket when removed, thanks to the oil, but be careful - you don't want to drop one.



Earlier, all measurements were recorded on a worksheet, along with proper spec and difference. Did I mention this whole process is very fiddly? As each shim was removed, it was measured with a micrometer and noted (although the thickness is printed on them, the printing can wear, as can the shim). Maths were then performed to determine the correct thickness needed for the replacement shim.

Click here for a worksheet! - http://www.zimmerframeracing.com/thumbnails/ValveWorksheet.pdf



Basically take the difference between measured clearance and ideal clearance (I use the larger, looser end of spec as ideal, as the tendency is to tighten over time). Then, take size of old shim, subtract the difference from spec (since you want a larger gap, you're going to use a smaller shim) to get the ideal size of the new shim.

Simply put:

Old shim size - difference from ideal spec (ideal gap minus measured gap) = new shim size

or let's say you have an ideal gap of .15mm. Your measured clearance was .11mm. The difference is .4mm. Your old shim was a 2.6mm.

So 2.6mm - .4mm = 2.2mm for the new shim to achieve the desired gap.

On the worksheet, ideal replacement shim thickness was noted, as was the anticipated clearance when complete. Since all the math was done beforehand, it was just a matter of picking out the shim and putting it in, then putting on the bucket.

And so forth 16 times!

Now, factory shims come in smaller increments, but cost about $8 each, although some shops will swap shims with you for free. I haven't even been in a shop in years, so I got an aftermarket shim kit. It has shims in increments of .05mm, which probably isn't going to give you an exactly matching set of clearances, but you can get them within 1 or 2 thousandths. Yes, it's a compromise. No, you're not building a MotoGP motor. Get over it. Or spend $8 a shim.

Now came time for reassembly. Although I had pictures of everything, I was a bit perplexed as to whether the 1 and 4 pistons were actually at TDC where they were supposed to be. The Holy Book of Triumph showed pictures of the crank indicator level and even with the seam between the case and cylinder. But mine clearly was not. I needed to make sure I was at TDC before putting the cams back in.



In the picture above, you will notice a hole above the crank where you can see the actual rod, complete with "Triumph" logo embossed. That's one way to check for TDC (1 and 4 rise and fall together), but after consultation with a friend of mine who knows more about this stuff and who was exceptionally patient and helpful with my many questions, I went with the low-tech method of stickin' a straw down the No. 1 hole moving the engine back and forth to find the highest point.



I used one from a Circle K Polar Pop - at 75 cents for a New-York-City-taxable-sized jug o' soda, they're the best deal going. And they come with reeeely long straws. And unlike screwdrivers, straws won't scratch the piston.

Problem now was, TDC appeared to be somewhere between even with the crankcase split, or just past it, as originally noted. Then things got weird.

I slathered everything with a 50/50 mix of moly lube and engine oil, according to the manual, put the cams in place and put the timing chain on, but when the crankshaft mark was aligned with the split at the case - as per the manual - with the chain pulled tight the marks on the cam were off regardless of what tooth the chain was on.

However, when the marks on the cams were right, the crank was... just past the crankcase split, where it was before I disassembled the thing. Since that's how it came, that's how I decided to reassemble it.



I found it easiest to put the exhaust cam in first, then the intake. However, the chain would slip and do stupid things while I tried to put the intake cam in, so I attached it to the exhaust cam with a zip tie to keep things from shifting off the proper tooth. Worked a treat. The white zip tie is running over the frame and under the cam chain, loosely, to keep it from falling down into the case while the cams are out or being moved around.



With both cams in place and the chain loosely draped over the sprockets, it was time to torque down the cams, progressively tightening each of the 10 bolts on the caps in the order prescribed by the Holy Book of Triumph. What the scripture doesn't tell you, though, is that the cams will turn slightly as you tighten them, on accounta the cam lobes contacting the valve buckets.

Fortunately, each cam comes with a cast-in hex nut gizmo - see the pic below - so you can make a fine adjustment with a wrench once the caps are bolted down (and _before_ you tighten the chain!).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
Part 3 - Reposted

Quoted from Original page - http://www.zimmerframeracing.com/tt_valves.htm



With everything bolted down and aligned, it was just a matter of fitting the chain and tensioner and the top plate and making sure the thing would turn through a couple of rotations without anything stupid happening, like valves bumping into pistons. A couple of rotations, back to TDC, and the marks lined up.



Fortunately, nothing stupid happened. But when I checked the clearances again, I found one valve way tight. That meant taking the whole mess apart and doing it over again, which sucked. Turns out, I'd misread the shim size and used a 2.6mm instead of 2.5, which made me feel like an idiot for not double-checking the printed size with a micrometer and then triple checking after that. But since I'd already done the assembly and disassembly once, I managed to get the cam out, put in the right shim and get it all back together in about 45 minutes, which included cigarette breaks and time allotted to kick myself for being sloppy.

Clearances were re-measured, everything was on the loose end of spec, and the engine spun without stupid things happening. Time for...



Then we gotta put the covers back on. The Holy Book of Triumph just says to put the gasket on the cover, place the cover on the head with some silicone in the specified spots, and tighten. But it ain't that simple. The gasket is a floppy one-piece mess that includes seals for the spark plug holes in a string down the middle. And no, you can't set it on the engine and then put the cover on, because there is a slotted groove along the top that fits in the valve cover and it's easier to do it this way. Trust me. I tried both.



I've worked on other bikes with separate circular gaskets for each plug, and it was easy. This is one of those things that convinces me that engineers and designers are people who never actually have to WORK on the things they create. Keeping that line of plug gaskets in place while fitting the cover in the tight space between the frame and engine was a pain innee ass.

Cover on, plugs and coils in.



Next order of business was to fix the vacuum leaks. Every line from the stepper motor got replaced, which delayed the whole project. The parts ended up backordered. Could be worse. Could be an Aprilia.



After that, the airbox went back on, with a new filter.



I also put on the new tank. I used the hardware from the old tank, including the fuel pump assembly. That was a revelation! I forgot to take a proper "before" picture of the accumulation of crud that had built up, but here it is mid-cleaning. Modern gas is crap.



Then the tank went on.



And the rest was put back together. As sportbikes go, it's a bit roundish and old-school, but I think it still looks sharp.



I had the time for a test ride, but opted instead to just try starting it and running it for a few minutes. After all, I was planning to take it for a long run the next day. It took a bit of cranking on acounta the entire fuel system being dry, but when it fired up, it ran like the proverbial top. I let it cool off, and on the next attempt it started like a champ.

False confidence!

I took it out the next morning and, while it ran and revved smoothly, once fully up to temperature, it would stall if I closed the throttle completely. My dumbass mistake. After adjusting the valves and fixing the vacuum lines, of course the idle was likely to change.

It's always the little things.

Things I learned along the way:
Get the manual! It will save you endless grief and guessing.
You can do it. It just takes patience.
Triple-check everything.
Plug up any holes - spark plug, crank case, etc. - in case you drop something.
You will drop something. A magnet-on-a-stick tool is a must-have
I take the most-used feeler gauge blades out of the tool and tie 'em on a long loop of string. Makes them easier to access, and if you drop a blade, you can retrieve it easily.
Do not confuse inches and mm! My feeler gauge is in inches. Conversion is Inch X 25.4 = mm and mm X 0.0393701 = inches. I have the formulas tacked up on my wall.
Use torque wrenches! I had to buy one because the torque on the cam caps is only 10nm, which is not much, and I didn't have one that would go that low. It's an excuse to buy a new tool.
Recheck clearances after refitting the cams.
Do a thorough warm-up and test ride and idle speed check!

Return home
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
Thanks for finding and posting this.

I've been looking for that worksheet forever. Of course I did my vales last week. two intake and two exhaust were tight.

Your one of the lucky ones! Some bikes have more room than others.

I have to pull all but one motor mount bolt, the radiator (just lean it on the fender) loosen the exhaust mounts and loosen the drive chain. Just to get enough clearance over the cam sprockets to remove the cover.

Big plus it gets the cam timing marks out from behind the frame making it a lot easier to line them up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
This page is referenced before every re-post

I had tried a few times to contact you via pm. Then found the page during searches.

Its is a great set of instructions on how to do it the inspection...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Timing marks not aligning...

Hi there! Thank you so much R100Pilot for sharing your experience on the valve shim adjustment!

I'm currently reassembling the engine and pondering if I'm doing things right. I'm having the same problem as in http://www.zimmerframeracing.com/tt_valves.htm where the markings do not align. I'm wondering if really the right way is to put it back the way it was or the way the manual says. Or if my cam chain has stretched


So the crank seems to be forward by(almost?) one tooth with respect to the camshafts? Maybe?

Is it possible that the chain has jumped one tooth at some point? Or is it impossible that the engine has worked properly if the chain has jumped? In a way it would be tempting to try to put the chain one tooth earlier in the camshafts so that the marks would align better. Is this a very bad idea most likely leading to catastrophic engine failure?

Thanks for your views!
Coriolis
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
So I followed this post and have got to the point where I have the cams exposed with the head cover off, and the bottom side of the cam chain (right hand side cover), spark plugs are out but I cant move the back wheel to get the cams turning to get the bike in to TDC.
Any ideas how I can get the engine to move into TDC position?
So far I have tried putting it in higher gear (2nd & 3rd) and moving the back wheel but literally no movement.
I know the engine is not seized as I started the engine before removing anything off the bike, could it be the gearbox is seized, if so how would I know.
Is there anything obvious I could be missing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
seems odd but maybe try 6th gear? also put it in neutral and see if you can turn the wheel-maybe your rear brake is seized/binding (?)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi there!

If someone is interested, the cam chain was indeed stretched out by half a link's distance. I installed a new one and the marks did align much better. So I highly recommend that anyone attempting this orders a new cam chain straight away...so you don't have to wait for 2 or more weeks for it to arrive...

Sam: Strange that your engine doesn't move. Mine moved fairly easily from the rear wheel when having it on 6th gear. Though it was much more convenient and easy to rotate the engine using the front sprocket nut. Just put a proper socket and a long enough tool to it and you should have much more force than from the rear wheel. That is of course, if the sprocket won't come off...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
The rear wheel turn fine in neutral but when in gear it won't move.

Is there a way of rotating the crank without the rear wheel?
like Coriolis said, from the front sproket nut...but I’ll admit I’m really puzzled. Just to recap:

the rear wheel turns fine in neutral, the engine was running before you took things apart, the plugs are out, but you can’t turn the engine in 6th gear from the back wheel? Is there a dropped tool jamming something? Seems to me the engine should turn fairly easily in 6th with no spark plugs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Worked on the bike last night, and with a substantial amount of effort rocking the bike back and forward off the stand I managed to get the engine moving, it seemed as if the starter motor or gearbox is resisting it as it sounds like I'm trying to bump start it but its all good now....Thanks for your help so far and hopefully the rest goes smoothly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I solved it!!!!

Just thought I would let everyone know what happened and how I fixed it.

It's all my fault, so what i have learnt is follow the advice of above and check and double check everything before you do something not after!!!

So in trying initially to get the engine to TDC in 1st gear (should have been 6th) it wouldn't rotate so I loosened the cam chain to allow the crank to turn... I stupidly assumed there was too much tension and that was stopping the cams rotating.... the crankshaft spun and cams didnt....nightmare... that put the timing out. Once I realised and tensioned the chain again the valves were fouling and not allowing the cams to turn. So it meant taking Cams off and realigning it all to TDC.... a very dark art and certainly worth working with a friend to get sorted, one of you watching the timing and one rotating the wheel/crank. You need to take the cams off align them put them back together then rotate the engine 3-4 times, check marks again, it aligned do another few rotations of the engine, if its all still lined up you are sorted. If not take cams off, move one tooth then reassemble and repeat until you get it all aligned. Then you can start again from TDC checking valves etc.

All that and my valves are all within tolerance .... what a ball ache.

I hope this helps anyone with fixing a very stupid problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
@Coriolis

Thank for your info,

I am sure that I'm facing the same situation.

When aligning the exhaust cam (because its easier to read because i couldn't lift the cam cover off)

The inlet cam is before the cilinderhead line.
Meantime the crank has past the crankcase line.

The chain appears in visual good state and at tension.

My conclusion is that the chain has been stretched also.

Is it necessary to buy the hole kit with chain guides? They appear in visual good state same as wear from the engine itself.

The bike was running ok before last run. My conclusion to take it appart was that it was making a strange compression /combustion sound more like a 2 or 3 cilinder but idling fairly normal. Power was there but lacking a bit. When I switched ignition off during riding I knew it weren't the sparkplugs or coils because the same sound remained.

Can somebody confirm my conclusions just to be sure ?
727610
727611
 
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
Top