Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of October's Bike of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

I searched the forums and noticed that there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there about whether or not the various models of Sprints (let alone Triumphs in general) will handle the E10 /Ethanol gas that's being shoved down our throats over here in Europe (I'm in Germany).

I've read things about how ethanol can loosen up the sludge in some of the tanks and basically end up clogging up all sorts of fuel components (filters, lines, etc.).

So with all that being said, I have two questions to pose to the forum.

1) Does anyone know which models might have problems running on this E10 fuel?

2) What octane level will the Sprint RS' (I've got an '01) successfully run on?

I've noticed that the manual states that it needs 98 RON, but I just pumped in about half a tank of 95 ROZ (believe that equates to about 93 or 92 RON) and while I do expect a dump in my overall gas mileage (yeah, I know, Ethanol burns cleaner, but gives you less oomph, so you end up with reduced mileage for about the same money...if not more. Super! Damn oil companies in bed with government again...), I'm wondering (after seeing one of KitNYC's post) if it really makes a difference to run the higher octane, especially in places like Germany where I can fully realize the full potential of my motor (gotta love that lack of speed limit in some places!).

Well, sorry for potentially being a bit wordy there, but if anyone has anything to add to this topic... well, this is the time to ante up!

Thanks all, in advance, 2 all! :cool:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,047 Posts
Don't know about ROW, or earlier models, but Ethanol (10% Ethanol and 90% gasoline) has been specified allowable for Sprints since 2005.

Doesn't mean that it is good stuff, just that the bike "supposedly" will run on it. Interaction between Ethanol, or associated byproducts, and plastic/composite tanks is still suspect IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
I'm not a fan of E10 but for the most part it's all we have here in the states. As far as I know it won't lessen the oomph but it will lessen your mpg because ethanol has 1/2 the energy of gasoline.

I too am suspect of its effect on plastic. My '06 has a plastic tank and it has a bulge on the right side. Is it from the ethanol? Don't know.

You can thank the corn lobbyists for this.

For those of us in the US and Canada: www.pure-gas.org
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
Hello everyone,

I searched the forums and noticed that there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there about whether or not the various models of Sprints (let alone Triumphs in general) will handle the E10 /Ethanol gas that's being shoved down our throats over here in Europe (I'm in Germany).
It was shoved down our throats in the US before I learned to ride. Didn't know you had a strong corn farmer's lobby over in Deutschland.

I've read things about how ethanol can loosen up the sludge in some of the tanks and basically end up clogging up all sorts of fuel components (filters, lines, etc.).
That's probably mostly exaggerated. It probably does cause rubber to decay faster, though, and Triumph's rubber parts are... <ahem> ...let's say not known for their robustness.

So with all that being said, I have two questions to pose to the forum.

1) Does anyone know which models might have problems running on this E10 fuel?
To the best of my knowledge, any Triumph made in or after 1990 should be able to run E10 without any problems that are not inherent to the fuel.

2) What octane level will the Sprint RS' (I've got an '01) successfully run on?

I've noticed that the manual states that it needs 98 RON, but I just pumped in about half a tank of 95 ROZ (believe that equates to about 93 or 92 RON) and while I do expect a dump in my overall gas mileage (yeah, I know, Ethanol burns cleaner, but gives you less oomph, so you end up with reduced mileage for about the same money...if not more. Super! Damn oil companies in bed with government again...), I'm wondering (after seeing one of KitNYC's post) if it really makes a difference to run the higher octane, especially in places like Germany where I can fully realize the full potential of my motor (gotta love that lack of speed limit in some places!).
<...>
I've never heard of ROZ and don't know what it stands for. Most of the world seems to use RON, which is Research Octane Number, and Triumph specs 95 RON for just about everything including our Sprints. The US and Canada and a few other places use an average of MON (Motor Octane Number) and RON, often abbreviated as (RON+MON/2). The number Triumph specs in that case is 89.

Don't know about ROW, or earlier models, but Ethanol (10% Ethanol and 90% gasoline) has been specified allowable for Sprints since 2005.
Page 9.8 of the T3 series service manual states that Triumph motorcycles may use 10% ethanol fuels, so all the way back to 1990.

Doesn't mean that it is good stuff, just that the bike "supposedly" will run on it. Interaction between Ethanol, or associated byproducts, and plastic/composite tanks is still suspect IMO.
Agreed. (And I would add that the bike will definitely run on it, as the vast majority of the 40,000 miles I've put on mine have been with the tainted fuel in question.)

Cheers,
-Kit
 
  • Like
Reactions: Werecow

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
BruceC, you may be happy with your mpg, but you'd be even happier if you were running pure gas.

I've used enough pure gas in my car to know that there is a significant improvement in mpg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
It was shoved down our throats in the US before I learned to ride. Didn't know you had a strong corn farmer's lobby over in Deutschland.

That's probably mostly exaggerated. It probably does cause rubber to decay faster, though, and Triumph's rubber parts are... <ahem> ...let's say not known for their robustness.



To the best of my knowledge, any Triumph made in or after 1990 should be able to run E10 without any problems that are not inherent to the fuel.

I've never heard of ROZ and don't know what it stands for. Most of the world seems to use RON, which is Research Octane Number, and Triumph specs 95 RON for just about everything including our Sprints. The US and Canada and a few other places use an average of MON (Motor Octane Number) and RON, often abbreviated as (RON+MON/2). The number Triumph specs in that case is 89.



Page 9.8 of the T3 series service manual states that Triumph motorcycles may use 10% ethanol fuels, so all the way back to 1990.

Agreed. (And I would add that the bike will definitely run on it, as the vast majority of the 40,000 miles I've put on mine have been with the tainted fuel in question.)

Cheers,
-Kit
So are you saying that it is ok to run regular unleaded in a 2000 Sprint RS? Just curious, I don't know if it's ok or not, all I have ever run in the short one monthish I have had mine, is premium, which I believe is 92 octane here in SmellA
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
So are you saying that it is ok to run regular unleaded in a 2000 Sprint RS? Just curious, I don't know if it's ok or not, all I have ever run in the short one monthish I have had mine, is premium, which I believe is 92 octane here in SmellA
The short answer is no. Regular is 87; Triumph recommends 89, which is mid-grade. Definitely no need for premium, though; all that extra 10¢/gallon is buying you is carbon deposits.

The long answer is a bit more complex: the correct octane rating to run is the lowest number that doesn't cause pinging/knocking/detonation. At least one person on this forum is running 87 with no reported problems, but I'm not going to try that here in Austin.

Cheers,
-Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I'm in Germany too and I think the fact that the stuff was thrown on the market even before car/motorcycle dealers and petrol station owners were thoroughly informed has caused a general feeling of insecurity here.
I haven't heard of any clogging up so far but according to some dealers the engine may overheat, causing seize-up. I'm certainly not running any risk with my newly acquired RS, more so as the actual price difference for a Sunday's ride is negligible.:)

@KitNYC: ROZ is the German term ("Zahl" for "Number").

Cheers,
Izzy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
I haven't been game to put a drop of it in any of my bikes. Theres lots of horror stories of various rubber and plastic bits being eaten or shrunk or distorted due to its use in all manner of vehicles.

Manufacturers seem to be catching up, but for now I'm steering well clear.

Personally I don't see the point of the diminishing returns resulting from its use.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,407 Posts
I haven't been game to put a drop of it in any of my bikes. Theres lots of horror stories of various rubber and plastic bits being eaten or shrunk or distorted due to its use in all manner of vehicles.

Manufacturers seem to be catching up, but for now I'm steering well clear.

Personally I don't see the point of the diminishing returns resulting from its use.
That's a big ditto for me too.

DaveM:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Ethanol is horrible stuff. It does not provide a consistent octane rating so cars tend to be tuned to run rich, especial anything turbo charged. (I can go into detail if anyone really cares, but in general what happens is they take 89, add ethanol and say it's 91-93 now due to ethanol acting as an inhibitor. In the US we pretty much use nothing but E to set octane ratings which is terrible.)

But if running a little rich was all there is to it, it'd not be so bad...

Unfortunately E10 fuel can absorb lots of water and will separate - in about 90 days after ethanol has been added. This will do several very bad things, it will lower the octane of the fuel by several points and introduce water to system which will rust your tank.

Oh and long term exposure of plastic to ethanol causes it to become softer and expand. Look at the Ducati owners in the US whose plastic tanks decay to the point that they cannot be removed off the bikes or flat out crack. I've seen the deformed tank first hand on my coworkers multistrada - it's obvious and looks pretty bad.( http://deformedfueltanks.com/ )

Oh and it will deform the plastic tanks on Triumphs too:
http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/153414-my-plastic-tank-failed-cracked-04-rs.html
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
79 Posts
Well we all know that there is to much food in the world so why not put some in our gas tanks. We also have to much clean water so we use more water to make our fuel. It is such a great idea that the government in the US has approved the use of E15. I can not wait till we hear the next great news on the fuel front! You think it is a problem for over the road use, ask a boat owner what happens to his outboard using this stuff!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,047 Posts
I think that the fact that some powers that be have decided that it benefits someone for us to use a food source for transportation fuel is highly suspicious. But what is sad is that we have allowed, and continue to allow that short sighted practice.

As far as ethanol affecting some fuel system components, I have to believe it is in equipment not certified by the manufacturer for ethanol. As far as the water problem, here is some reading:

View attachment waterphs.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I don't know for a ´01, but in general I do not see any problem running with 10% ethanol.

Here in Brazil gasoline has as standard 20% to 25% ethanol moisture (E25).
Of course cars and motorcycles produced here are better developed to support ethanol corrosive characteristics as we have flex fuel engines that can rum from 20% to 100% ethanol (you can chose the percentage at each fueling).

On the other hand, we have a bunch of imported cars and motorcycles made to run with no ethanol inside, but they are here running for decades with E25 and no big problem related.

Most of the cases importers do nothing in adjustments (the best ones try to adjust fuel injection system remapping it and that's all).

My sprint ´06 was one of the firsts imported model that came to Brazil.
At that time, there was no specific map for it nor special parts to support ethanol.
As far as I am concerned, there was no modification in engine or rubber / plastic parts.

It ran 34,000km with 25% ethanol and NO corrosion aspects has been shown up.
Plastics and rubbers ok, fuel pump ok, etc.

After 2009 models, the local importer "created" an ECU map specific for Brazilian gasoline.
As this is not the case for my old VIN #, I recently let my bike on a good mechanic and dynamometer lambda sensor showed rich misture (dark grey smoke over 8000RPM).

Some work on tune ecu has fixed it.

As I said, I would not mind fueling with E10.
Where did you read those problems on the net?

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
If I understand correctly, the sugar cane based ethanol used in Brazil produces considerably more energy than the corn-based ethanol used in the US. Way too tired to look this up right now, but that's what I've read.

Cheers,
-Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
The end product (ethanol) is virtually the same between corn and sugar cane. But it takes less energy to produce ethanol from sugar cane. That's the biggest difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
oooooh that's what the E10 is all about. I was in France last weekend for the le Mans Motop and had no idea what the E10 unleaded was all about. I steered clear of it anyway and put the standard spec go-juice in it.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top