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The other day I thought about a trip to Alaska that my friend and our significant others are going to embark on a little later in life. So I got to thinking about a comfortable ride to add to the stable at that time, when I am a bit older. I love the Rocket but it lacks what we call around here a 'dresser' model. I know they have the touring at $16399, but if you start out with a base RIII at $14,999 and Corbin sells the fairing for $1199 and the side bags for $1499 giving us $17697.....but at H-D you can get a base Electra-glide for $16K all the way up to a full on Gold-Wing fighter for $33 from their CVO which are all I saw when crossing the Rockies on a trip to California this past summer. There is obviously a market, but does it belong only to H-D??

SO on to my question; What are the odds that Triumph would build a Rocket Dresser, complete with radio, hard bags and trunk, electrical outlets, optional heated seats...all the things that make you think you should have bought a car instead??
 

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Triumph has no CVO division and is not likely to have in the foreseeable future.

Without sales numbers to give them adequate purchasing power with custom component manufacturers, anything they put together of along these lines, while undoubtedly lovely to behold, would be overpriced compared to the competition. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

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In addition to the bikes I have and the Ducati 999 I wish I had, I also have an inexplicable desire for a full-zoot dresser. Two years ago, I came close to buying a used FLH Electra Glide Ultra Classic. Gorgeous bike, and despite the his-and-hers lounge chairs, stereo, luggage, cupholders, etc., the seat was still low to the ground and it was easy to handle.

A properly optioned-out dresser with the Rocket III engine could be a masterpiece, but they'd probably have to redesign just about everything to make it work right, and they probably couldn't bring it in for less than $25K for a "base" model.
 

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Triumph has no CVO division and is not likely to have in the foreseeable future.

Without sales numbers to give them adequate purchasing power with custom component manufacturers, anything they put together of along these lines, while undoubtedly lovely to behold, would be overpriced compared to the competition. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
I would have to disagree. Everything they produce now is very competitive price wise, especially considering the value of the US dollar, I don't see why anything else would not be competitive.

If I stated two years ago that Triumph would have the 600cc class leading sports bike in 2006 everyone would of laughed, especially after the TT600 and 650's, but look at the 675.

I think they would be able to do it and have it priced near that of the Ultra Classics (which are $20,000). Plus you get twice the hp and torque. Not a bad deal even if it was priced a few hundred higher than HD. The only kicker is the resale values suck compared to HD, which also plaques the Jap bikes.

I think the Touring model is just satisfy those that have been wanting a full dress version since the introduction until the real deal comes out.

Triumph has an edge over all of the major bike makers, they don't have stockholders to keep happy and have to worry about meeting projected sales targets etc. Bloor can pretty much do what he wants to please himself, ie Triumph's absence from CW International Motorcycle Show.

As far a purchasing power, they are able to do it now, why wouldn't they in the future. Triumph also manufacturers a number of parts in house, so I don't see why they wouldn't continue to do the same. Such accessories really aren't that expensive, unless you purchase them as aftermarket.

[ This message was edited by: Pig9r on 2006-12-07 18:23 ]
 

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On 2006-12-07 13:33, ender wrote:
The other day I thought about a trip to Alaska that my friend and our significant others are going to embark on a little later in life. So I got to thinking about a comfortable ride to add to the stable at that time, when I am a bit older. I love the Rocket but it lacks what we call around here a 'dresser' model. I know they have the touring at $16399, but if you start out with a base RIII at $14,999 and Corbin sells the fairing for $1199 and the side bags for $1499 giving us $17697.....but at H-D you can get a base Electra-glide for $16K all the way up to a full on Gold-Wing fighter for $33 from their CVO which are all I saw when crossing the Rockies on a trip to California this past summer. There is obviously a market, but does it belong only to H-D??

SO on to my question; What are the odds that Triumph would build a Rocket Dresser, complete with radio, hard bags and trunk, electrical outlets, optional heated seats...all the things that make you think you should have bought a car instead??
Ender,
Corbin's fairing is nice as is their saddle bags. I have leather like on my R3 and they do not look as nice as the corbins, but they hold more and cost alot less. The R3 is going to ride a lot nice for a long trip like that. I would venture to say a lot less vibration and much more power. I was thinking of a trip to Alaska in a couple of years myself. Let us know what you decide. Lee
 

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>I would have to disagree. Everything they produce now is very competitive price wise, especially considering the value of the US dollar, I don't see why anything else would not be competitive.

It's very simple. If they can sell 5000 - 7000 units of a bike in a year, they can interest enough suppliers in producing the necessary components. Less than that, it becomes iffy, and all they can be sure of getting is accessory items that would otherwise have a modest potential market among customers anyway...like those which go to make up the Classic.

As for the US dollar, don't get me started on that. If the current trend in currencies continues, we're going to be seeing hefty price increases on stuff from the UK, and soon. We're already Europe's equivalent of Mexico, with folks popping over here on jets to pick up big bargains in NYC, out at the Mall of the Americas, etc.

>I think they would be able to do it and have it priced near that of the Ultra Classics (which are $20,000). Plus you get twice the hp and torque. Not a bad deal even if it was priced a few hundred higher than HD.

Try several thousand. The economies of scale are just not there right now, in part for the very reason you mention next.

>The only kicker is the resale values suck compared to HD, which also plagues the Jap bikes.

This is a real biggie, which does limit the number of new sales Triumph can count on; and is an even more limiting factor as one begins targeting more specialized markets like the full-dresser segment.

>Triumph has an edge over all of the major bike makers, they don't have stockholders to keep happy .... Bloor can pretty much do what he wants to please himself, ie Triumph's absence from CW International Motorcycle Show.

He sometimes enters into projects that don't earn him much money, but one thing he definitely doesn't like to do is lose money. Shunning a magazine-hosted dog and pony show is one thing, and it hasn't cost him a penny; but building something a bit too specialized for a market a fraction the size of the present Rocket demand could be a losing proposition.

>As far a purchasing power, they are able to do it now, why wouldn't they in the future.

Able to do what? Certainly not build one-offs or even dozens-off willynilly. Not even hundreds...as witness the demise of the 955 Daytona, a lovely machine and a sentimental favorite which was long the king of the fleet.

And they don't manufacture much of anything themselves but the tanks, engines, and a certain amount of bodywork. Leather bags, instrument assemblies, light assemblies, chrome trim elements, and other such goodies are all outsourced.

Right now, if they attempted to build a full dresser, it would be with all aftermarket accessories, and that's why I figure it'd be thousands more than a comparable HD.

If they someday reach the point where their marketing folks are convinced the demand exceeds the threshold needed to obtain bulk quantities of the necessary custom luggage and trim and whatever from their vendors at a decent price point, they'll I bet they'll do it. Strong sales of the Classic version might convince them, for instance.

But who can say when that will be? Hence, the comment that I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

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The Rocket is already more than capable of taking such a trip. Like you said above, if you have all of that other stuff, you might as well take a car.

I did a 4,000 mile trip this year on my Rocket. I run the Roadster screen, Corbin bags, Triumph gel seats, and Triumph short back rest. With the appropriate clothing, I would not hesitate to take my Rocket on any trip equipped as is.

I owned a Harley Road Glide for a while, but all of those toys take away from the riding experience for me. I was much happier touring on my Rocket than I was on the Road Glide. The Road Glide was a great bike.. just too many gadgets
 

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Hi all, not trying to bash Harley too bad, but there are a lot of misconceptions out there concerning this topic.

First off the comment about Harley's holding their resale value. This is one of the biggest smoke screens that is thrown up by defensive Harley owners. If you mean their "list" price that is correct up to a point. Unfortunately by the time the "underpowered" stock Harley is given it's special "speed treatment" and engine upgrades, plus all the "accessories" that are added to them to make them look unique (which usually fails miserably unless they custom paint it), their bikes are now way over their initial investment in price. They "usually" feel if they get back their initial purchase price on it they have made out and not "lost" any value...not so.

Second, and I have to preface this by saying I own an 06 Gold Wing which is at 118 HP already, the $33,000 CVO Harley still can't quite match up to mine stock. They have a bigger engine (still smaller than the Wing), more horsepower (still less than the Wing), a six speed transmission (jury is out on that one, if you check their boards there are a lot of complaints coming in about gear noise while shifting especially the fifth gear), and since the CVO is still air cooled (and now with the bigger engine) the heat problem is more in evidence than ever. Of course you will still have the die hard Harley guy/gal who will suffer and grin and bear it, but the bottom line is they are all overpriced for what you get.

Third, there have been a lot of great points brought up about the difficulty of bringing the Rocket up to a full dresser. Now if you mean like my Wing you may have a point, but when compared to the Harley standard, I, personally do not feel it would be as difficult as some have said. The Rocket already has the engine which will make the Gold Wing riders sit up and take notice. They were very disappointed when Honda did nothing more than bring out nothing but new colors this last September.

The Rocket Classic has really grown on me, I would almost get the Classic Tourer, but I want the black engine and the side bags (panniers) don't do much for me since they don't lock, but with the right fairing with an intergrated speaker system with a decent radio with inputs for MP3 players (just run IPods, that is what I do on the Wing) and an amplifier, a decent trunk (maybe this could be locking) and a suitable backrest for the passenger, Triumph could be in the running. And add ABS there are a lot of sales to be made out there.

If the price was in the $22-26K range I believe it would be a good seller, again it's that engine...almost 500 cc's bigger than the Wing.

Dennis
 

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Ender,

If you are comparing the Rocket Classic to the Gold Wing or Electra Guide on the basis of passenger comfort and available extras, then the Rocket Classic comes up short. I will argue that it will be cheaper to add the comfort and extras than it is for HD to match the performance of the Rocket.

Don't put that trip off too long my friend. Put a date on a calendar and start making plans (even if that date is a year or so away.)
Since we are all in the planning mode, adding a trailer to you plans gives you a bunch of options.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We had our local Rat meeting last night at the dealer, and they had a touring R3 there. I did sit on it however for the money and the looks I think that a classic with the black engine (easy to keep clean on long rides), windscreen and some Corbin saddle bags might be the steed of choice. I wasn't trying to decide between the Rocket and the HD, I just wanted to know why they hadn't taken on the dresser market when the Rocket seems like one of the best platforms for it. I hadn't even thought about putting the goldwing in the mix. I still wonder what the market size is and if Triumph even wants to grab a share of it.

Our trip is resting on what my buddy does after graduation, my new job basically lets me take vacation anytime so long as I have my laptop and a phone handy. My wife will be driving the chase RV with a trailer in tow. I have heard that HWY 2 needs more of an enduro style bike as well. We are all committed to the trip, we think 3 weeks may be enough!!
 

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Most manufacturers create a number of models from a base model to expand their range and fill in the gaps and Triumph is no different. Cases in point: The standard original Bonneville has spurned three or four other models, the America, one other model and the Rocket, one other model. Then there is the Daytona 955/Speed Triple/Sprint connection etc etc.

It would take little extra tooling for Triumph to develop a full dresser from the Rocket, just as it could develop a Speed Triple 675 from the Daytona 675, an all roads adventure tourer with 21" front wheel from the new Tiger 1050, and an enlarged Speedmaster 1200 from the existing 865.

However a company like Triumph does not have the resourses of a company like Honda who can introduce many new models every year so me methinks that the next revised model (call it new if you like) will be an updated open class Daytona sporting 1100cc with a claimed output of somewhere between 160HP and 170HP with a mountain of torque.

But..., if you were on the new model stategic planning team at Triumph my guess is that you would be more interested in developing new models that can be dumped into the biggest selling segment in the worlds biggest market. For this reason my guess is that the next new model from Triumph will be something that bridges the gap between the America/Speedmaster and the Rocket.

Whether this takes the form of a bored out Speedmaster (like a 1200 Sportster as compared to a 883 Sportster) or a scaled down Rocket II of about 1500cc capacity remains to be seen. My hope is that it be an entirely new model... an air/oil cooled vertical twin of about 1600cc, shaft drive with similar architecture/style to the existing twins and producing over 90hp with good torque.

Oh Mr Bloor, while on the subject, could we have a midsize all roads adventure bike using the D675 mill please. Target weight, 175kg, 110hp, 21" front and 18" rear. Sturdy rear subframe, optional aluminium pannier boxes. What a tasty alternative to the KTM990's and R1200GS-A's of this world such a bike as the Tiger 675 would be! Bring it on! Davo
 

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> Oh Mr Bloor, while on the subject, could we have a midsize all roads adventure bike using the D675 mill please.

Yes sir, please, sir!

They wouldn't be able to build those fast enough... :wink:
 

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On 2006-12-08 18:42, Diego wrote:
> Oh Mr Bloor, while on the subject, could we have a midsize all roads adventure bike using the D675 mill please.

Yes sir, please, sir!

They wouldn't be able to build those fast enough... :wink:
Rode one at Baxter and LOVE that motor. Something that good shouldn't be solely for those who like to ride in the same position they molest sheep. While they're at it, the Hinckley boys can give this fictional machine neo-classic styling, but more like the T3 Thunderbird than the Scrambler. Dealers worldwide would have a drawer full of deposit checks the day they unveiled it.
 

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On 2006-12-07 13:33, ender wrote:
...but at H-D you can get a base Electra-glide for $16K all the way up to a full on Gold-Wing fighter for $33 from their CVO which are all I saw when crossing the Rockies on a trip to California this past summer. There is obviously a market, but does it belong only to H-D??
In all my touring of mountain states and provinces from the Carolinas to Alaska, I don't think I've seen more than a handful of those obscenely priced CVO Ultras. Most of the countless EG's you see from Standard to Ultra are just regular Harleys. The CVO is mostly bling and motor mods with a steep price--you get plenty of amenities with the regular production Classic/Ultra.

Since you brought up the 49th state I went to Hyder Seek on a Road King along with a buddy on an Ultra. I was about as comfortable as he was though I didn't have the stereo. You don't need a bike with everything but the kitchen sink to do long-distance touring, just one which has comfort and stamina and isn't a problem to keep maintained on the road. Contrary to popular belief, Harley baggers hold their own at the first 2 and have 'em all beat at the 3rd if travelling the US & Canada. That's why you see so many.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I didn't mean all I saw where CVOs, I meant that all I saw where Dressers, I would say about one hundred of the H-Ds, I stopped counting at 80, about 20 Goldwings and a large handful of the BMWs on my 6 day trip.
 

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On 2006-12-08 20:33, ender wrote:
I didn't mean all I saw where CVOs, I meant that all I saw where Dressers, I would say about one hundred of the H-Ds, I stopped counting at 80.
If you only counted EG's and TG's --the faired models considered dressers-- that was maybe half the HD touring bikes. RK's which are the exact same platform are big sellers too because they have most of the comfort (all if set up right) and are "convertibles" with a windshield that removes in seconds and comes in several sizes. You're not stuck behind a big bodacious fairing even in hot weather but you give up some electronic goodies, most of which HD and/or the aftermarket offer if you want them e.g. true cruise control (stock on some and easily added to any model in HD touring line).

To keep this on the subject of Rockets, if Desert Dawgs and electronic cruise were available you could make the Rocket Touring about as comfortable as HD baggers. Soft lowers like the Dawgs (indispensable cold weather unless bike already has hard lowers) are another thing that's missing and can't be had unless you pay an upholstery shop to make some afaik. The outfit that makes Dawgs said they'd support the Rocket if somebody would provide a bike with engine guards for making the pattern.
 

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The "Story" I have heard for nearly 30 years is that the AlCan hiway is unfit for caribou and treacherous for 2 wheelers. This will need some recent verification as fact. I believe there are fairies that will take on vehicles out of Seattle to Anchorage. :hammer:
 

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Fairies???


Someone's been at the pixie-dust again!


Maybe you meant "Ferries" - those boats that carry cars and things...
 
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