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Check out what the beemer guys are coming out with this year its the BMW X-Country, it will be made by Aprillia for BMW which sure beats the rich motorcycle producing history of Thailand!
 

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I keep hoping against all hope that Triumph will take their retro bikes DOWN in displacement.

How about a big single like mentioned above?
Or a lightweight 500cc twin?
 

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I know i really hated the F650 GS when i rode it, so this probably isn't any better. I'm a huge BMW fan too.

As far as the new BMW made by Aprillia... Let's just say i'd rather have my bike made anywhere other than italy... i'm 1/2 italian so i feel confident saying that.

I'm perfectly happy with my thrux.

[ This message was edited by: Fast_Fashion on 2006-12-28 17:09 ]
 

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If Triumph builds a 500, I'll be first in line to buy one...maybe two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
McQueen-I agree. Even though I am in the process of punching my 790 to a 904, I think Triumph needs to keep the returning boomer in mind when it comes to cost and operating cost. Triumph did very well with 790 engines, in fact they did VERY well in past incarnations with 750 and 650 engines. 650 twin w/fule injection? 500 thumper Scrambler/Flat Tracker (REAL Trophy)? Less displacement/weight/insurance cost/selling price? Like everything else, the rich history of motorcycle manufacturing in Thailand will be done with Triumph design/QC. One more summer of $3.50 per gallon gas and folks may be ready to buy more fuel effecient FUN motorcycles regardless of where they are made. Gosh, those lousy bikes from Japan dominated the market in the 70's. If Triumph doesn't get some pop in that small displacement market, the Chinese will buy their brand name to make T-shirts.

[ This message was edited by: Brooksie on 2006-12-28 18:59 ]
 

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honda did well in the sixties, its a great idea beginner bikes these days are jap bikes and why not why would a beginner
pay the money some of these manufactures are asking
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
True, that's the time frame most of us who buy Bonnies harken back to. Though the most popular bikes back then were the CB750 (Triumph Killer) because they offered power and handling for less money than the Brits. There were still bikes like CB/CL 200's, 350's and 450's for the average rider. Dollar value or buying power in 1972 was like having $4.67 in todays dollar. So todays $7500.00 Bonnie would have cost around $1605.99 in 1972. It is not so much the price of the purchase but the operating cost. A mini Speed Triple would probably be a better choice for Triumph because you want to reach new riders. I guess we will see. The Hyosung's of the world will probably get the share of that market in Asia, but Europe and here?

http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ppowerus/result.php
 

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Since everyone to post on this message is from the States, I can say this for now;

"Our peers have decided that big displacement is what they want"

It's unfortunate, but it has killed the marketability for small displacement bikes. I guess you still see some Kymco 250's or an occasional Ninja 250 around, but they're basically considered beginners bikes. Personally, I've never talked to anyone who had a bigger bike that said "I ride a 250cc also!".

Heck, we've got "small" bikes now. I'd still like to have a 500cc thumper though, but the Royal Enfield just doesn't do it for me.
 

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On 2006-12-28 15:32, Brooksie wrote:
What would you think of a small bore Triumph single using a Rotax or something with Scrambler styling for $4500.00?
Smashing.
 

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My small bike is my W650. Well-designed and dependable, it's a great all around bike. When I push her out of the garage, she's so light it feels like I'm pushing a bicycle instead of a motorcycle. I've toured for 3-4 days at a time on this bike, and wouldn't be a bit afraid to take her on a trip similar to the 5k Bonnie trip this past summer. The W is my bike of choice when I'm simply putting around the National Park close to home. Based on the success (and fun) I've have with this bike, I'd love to see Kaw or Triumph come out with a replica based on the BSA Gold Star 500 single.

However, I don't imagine Kaw will ever make the mistake of bringing such a bike into the US again. They were reluctant to bring the W into the country, but bent to US dealer pressure and the promise we so often make " .... bring it, and we'll buy it ...". The bike was designed for the Asian market, where retro means British style bikes, not V twin cruisers. It was on the market in Japan for approx 8 years, where they've just introduced a W400 (destroked version) to meet tiered licensing and/or insurance regs in that country. The W650 was also sold for several years in Germany and other European countries. The US and Canada only saw the 2000 and 2001 models for sale. Too small a market in the USA for a small Japanese bike styled like a British bike from 1965.

There's a few of us in the USA who like smaller bikes, but for the most part, we're way outgunned by the big domestic and metric cruisers, where 1300cc is now considered small. We're barely noise level, and not even on the radar.

And that's too bad.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What you & I may want to ride may not be the most profitable way to gain new market share with younger and urban customers. Bikes over 250 CC are the smallest segment of sales manufacturers deal with globally. While I myself prefer larger bikes, Triumph needs to get real with the huge market share it has no part of right now. Thailand plant could be their answer to this. Teenie tiny bikes will not sell in the US, but the money Triumph culd make in sub-650cc bikes elsewhere will make them more stable for big bore develpment. Copy and paste these stats to browser for info.
http://www.jama.org/statistics/motorcycle/sales/mc_sales_year.htm
 

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Back to the original post... Have a look at actual sales for the Blast. An excellent illustration of a good idea that's completely out of touch with the market.

It all boils down to vanity. If you look at things from the standpoint of practicality, the ideal first motorcycle is something like a 1982 Honda CM450- light weight, user friendly, won't overwhelm the new rider with too much power or brakes, and probably beat up enough that it won't show when it suffers the inevitable tipover. Buy one for $700, ride it for a year, and sell it for $700.

Now try to convince the typical first time rider (18-24 year old male) that he should go this route. Most will say they wouldn't be caught dead on something like that- their major concern is style and not looking like a dork. Of course, riding around on a week-old GSXR600 with a rashed-up fairing and broken turn signals (that the rider can't affort to fix) looks kind of dorky, but what are you going to do?

The Buell Blast is a wonderful idea, an excellent first motorcycle. And they clutter the dark corners of Harley dealerships like dust bunnies. This may have a bit to do with their less-than-stellar reputation for quality control issues, but still... If you look at where the money's being spent, and the fact that "practical" is the death knell to selling anything in the United States, you'll understand why Triumph isn't selling a 500cc single in the U.S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I know you're rght. They are not very sexy to some. But if you made them look like something cool maybe it'd work. License by skill level is used elsewhere in the world to keep kids from jumping on race bikes with 100hp going 160 mph for their first bike. We pay for that vanity with insurance premiums. The Blast, while a bit strange looking, will probably catch on big overseas. I guess we'll need a few more summers of gas costing 3.50 per gallon again to make commuter bikes viable.
 

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Personally, I'd really like to see Triumph, (or any other manufacturer if Triumph doesn't have the chutzpah or R&D budget), to come out with a twin cylinder 550 - 650 cc, w/ true retro styling, high quality workmanship/materials, about 50 hp, weighing in at about 350 - 400 lbs, and with lots of options available. And please: metal fenders, non dorky mirrors/tail light/turn signal, available parcel rack, and cool sounding bark to the exhaust. And if it were Triumph to make it, please make it in England, where it's heritage lies. If I was in the market for a new bike, I'd definitely be willing to pay up for a bike like that, $8 or 9 grand, fine, it'd be worth it. The key thoughts here are lightness, power to weight ratio, maneuverability, authenticity/true to heritage, practicality, and purist retro styling.
 
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