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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I’m embarrassed to say how much time I’ve spent over the last 3 days trying to install my new polished tri-tip slash-cut Trident exhaust (still not there but getting closer). As a caveat I’ll say I’ve read all the postings related to installing this product both good and otherwise. Thoroughly. Multiple times. Printed out the OnD pics and instructions (you the man!). Read the Trident instructions repeatedly. While I’m not a trained mechanic I’m pretty handy with tools and can follow instructions.

I’m not posting to bash Trident, but I’m extremely frustrated. I love both the look and the sound of this exhaust, but the current release is not commercial quality, at least not yet. It has the potential to be an OUTSTANDING product, but as they say, the devil is in the details. Something is missing in this equation – and I’m still not sure exactly what – but I intend to find out. There are at least 6 of us in this latest ‘class’ of new slash-cut tips customers in the past week or so. Perhaps if we pool our knowledge we can wrestle this thing to the ground once and for all.

Just for the record I’ll state my installation ‘assumptions’ or goals – for what it’s worth perhaps I’m misguided:

Installed the 3 cans should be symmetrical and pleasing to the eye

Ideally, the 3 cans will not touch or come into contact with the heat shield material under the seat (leaving a small amount of room for air flow/venting)

Ideally, the midpipe will not touch or come into contact with the heat shield material under the seat (again, for ventilation) – I don’t need or want a seat warmer.

With minimal to moderate adjustment, the tail light bracket should fit snuggly to support all 3 cans using BOTH bolts on each side (4 total).

The 4 female ends of the midpipe have been engineered to protrude at the the appropriate angle so that a solid connection with the male end of each pipe is possible, insuring all 4 joints are properly sealed.

When all pipes are fully seated as far as they go, the install should be 90% complete (minor push/pull, or turn if necessary; tighten the clamps)

Unbolting, changing, or moving any part of the uppipe (from the headers) is NOT necessary to complete this install.

Leaving room for minor adjustments, this should be a two-hour or less install.

:confused:

Given these assumptions, I have not been able to complete my installation – I just can’t get the tail light bracket to install using all 4 screws. Now, I’m about 1/3 of inch off, and the only thing I can think of to do is grind down the ‘nose’ of the tail light bracket (this is what is keeping the bracket from fitting).

I’ve attached a couple of pics – gentlemen, your thoughts?
 

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Ive read several times, use cargo straps not bungee cords.
You wont get enough compression with bungees.

Maybe try that?
I'll be installing mine tomorrow, we'll see how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry I should have mentioned it in my post - I did use a compression strap for all of day 1, taking OnD's advice and using his pictures.

After awhile I realized that the compression strap really didn't lift all 3 cans into position, as much as it secured them there while I tried to fit the tail light bracket correctly to the chassis using all 4 bolts.

In the end I just kneeled behind the bike and 'muscled' the 3 cans upwards into the triangle shape cavity of the tail end - the pressure and friction between the cans alone keeps them together long enough to secure them with either a bungee or a strap. The two frame ends are actually what hold them in (of course supported by the midpipe-to-can bolts).

This itself is a little tricky as the cans tend to rotate when you lift them (as they are round and tightly touching each other). While the cans are round and roll, the slash cut tips are actually oval, so it matters where they end up - the top of the O needs to be straight up, otherwise they don't look right.
 

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A couple of weeks ago I finally got around to installing the recently redesigned mid pipe I bought from Wolf back in December. Start to finish took me about a hour and a half.

I have a R&G tail tidy on my bike and when I disassembled everything I didn't bother to take it off before removing the bracket that holds the pipes in place. This turned out to be an advantage actually when I went to reassemble everything.

The first time I installed my Tridents I used OnD's method and it worked quite nicely. My heat shield is a little worse for wear from the cinch straps but I was able to bend it back to usable form besides, the seat covers it up anyway. This time though I did as you are in your pictures, I used a bungee strap. I wrapped it around just as tight as I could to hold the pipes in place and got the two forward bolts in place with no problems. The two rear bolts were not too far out from lining up but were still going to be a struggle. Here's where leaving the R&G in place became advantageous. I was able to fit a pry bar in between the R&G and the bracket that cradles the pipes and by gently lifting on the pry bar was able to easily line up the holes to get the two rear bolts screwed in.

If you are still using the stock tail light assembly though not to worry. It's already removed from the bike, just take it apart so that you can use the metal bracket that holds it all in place and bolt that bracket back on temporarily so that you can slip a pry bar in between the two brackets. Lift up gently so you can line up the holes and put your bolts in.

This method worked great for me so I thougt I'd share. Keep in mind though that when prying on something use caution. It did not take very much upward force to get those two holes to line up and you don't want to bend or break anything. Good Luck.

Speed Safe,
Don
 

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Given these assumptions, I have not been able to complete my installation – I just can’t get the tail light bracket to install using all 4 screws. Now, I’m about 1/3 of inch off, and the only thing I can think of to do is grind down the ‘nose’ of the tail light bracket (this is what is keeping the bracket from fitting).

QUOTE]

Hi. I had basically the same experience. In the end we had to grind down the tail light bracket which helped (a bit). I'm not sure why many have no problems, and others' are too tight to fit.
 

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This absolutely is not necessary - I had a guy who had come to the same conclusion the other day and he drove the bike over to me (you can see the thread on 595.net) where I took less than 20 minutes to fit the bracket correctly with no grinding or even the need for a lever - you just have to line it up right and only do all 4 bolts one turn at a time as you should with any assembly. If you do one fully tight or worse one side fully tight it pulls unevenly and you will never get the bracket back on - that's not anything to do with exhaust fitting though just basic mechanical knowledge...

Don't forget also that how far the pipes push on to the link pipe is important - too far down the pipe and you cannot tilt them to the right angles and not far enough and they leak - but a few minutes trial and error should show you how far they need to be on to make the triangle shape so that the bracket fits on easily

I think why some go easy and some don't is (no offence to anyone here) simply down to the levels of mechanical and common sense skills some have with parts and others do not - much the same as flat pack furniture - some will take hours and end up with a rickety table and others will do it in minutes and it's solid.

The assumptions you make are broadly correct but with two small errors - as stated above the cans DO NOT go as far as they possibly can on to the mid pipe - we allow a little room for error here as we have found a difference from bike to bike of nearly 1/2 inch in the length of the tail section - so if we simply made all the cans to fit in one set place on the link pipe some would just clear the tip of the tail and others would not meaning hot gas would get under the plastic - if your tail is "long" and you push them fully home on the link pipe you will never get them to angle where you need them...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Now we're making some progress.

"Don't forget also that how far the pipes push on to the link pipe is important - too far down the pipe and you cannot tilt them to the right angles and not far enough and they leak - but a few minutes trial and error should show you how far they need to be on to make the triangle shape so that the bracket fits on easily

The assumptions you make are broadly correct but with two small errors - as stated above the cans DO NOT go as far as they possibly can on to the mid pipe - we allow a little room for error here as we have found a difference from bike to bike of nearly 1/2 inch in the length of the tail section - so if we simply made all the cans to fit in one set place on the link pipe some would just clear the tip of the tail and others would not meaning hot gas would get under the plastic - if your tail is "long" and you push them fully home on the link pipe you will never get them to angle where you need them..."

Wolf - you may have given us the missing link. This little bit of 'common sense' you just provided could do the trick. Perhaps this could be included in the install instructions. I'll try this today.
 

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BlueBecomesYou,

Wolf - you may have given us the missing link. This little bit of 'common sense' you just provided could do the trick. Perhaps this could be included in the install instructions. I'll try this today.
Don't leave us hanging... Did you or did you not get the Trident
installed this weekend ???

Inquiring minds want to know:D

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
2006 Sprint ST Trident Slash-Cut Install

The good news is I can now assemble/disassemble this exhaust very quickly outside in the dark during a pouring rain. The bad news is I’m still not installed correctly (and this is my only vehicle – so after each attempt I must reassemble it using 2 bolts instead of 4 and breathe the leaky unsealed cans while I use the bike). I guess this kills my shot at working for Ikea building flat-box furniture! :)

Wolf – The whole system was long enough to clear all 3 pipes under my seat cowling without extending a single one of them from the fully seated position. But, I took you advice, and moved all 3 cans out a little bit from fully seated. Unfortunately it made very little difference. I think the width of the cans is the problem – I feel like I’m stuffing 30 lbs. of sausage into a 25 lb. bag. I also changed the angle of the midpipe, allowing me to raise the center pipe just a bit. The top of the midpipe is now hard up against the heat shield as are the tops of the three cans. Not ideal, but if I could install the tail light assembly, it would be acceptable. But alas I cannot.

With your current design, without some sort of can hanger between the cans and the midpipe, many, many different combinations must be tried. The midpipe can move forward and backward, fully seated or not. It also rotates up and down, side-to-side. The 3 cans move independently forward and backward, fully seated or not, and also rotate left and right. And, the 3 cans are friction fitted into the under-seat cavity hard up against the chassis butt ends. That makes 4 angled pipe-to-pipe connections that must be properly sealed plus the tail light assembly connection - that's quite a bit of variability.

I have a couple more questions before I try my next pass: 1) Is there any slack built into the midpipe/header connection? Or should it be fully seated? I’m using the baffle and it’s fully inserted – adds about ¼ to 1/3 inch to the midpipe length. 2) Ideally, is the midpipe protruding from the header connection level? Or, is the left pipe canted slightly up or down (POV – rider’s position back of bike)? 3) Are all 3 pipes exactly the same size, length and diameter?

So far sealing the header/midpipe connection has been easy. But, I’m really struggling to seal the midpipe/can connection. With regard to the O-ring can clamps – do you find you get a better fit if they are hard up against the metal flange of the can? Or, maybe a ¼ in or 1/3 in out away from the flange? Typically, what length of spent screw protrudes from the fully tightened O-ring clamp? Can the O-ring clamp be overtightened? If so what happens? I’ve got some high temp. silicon muffler sealant to try next. Is it better to put on the inside of the connection or the outside? If inside, is it better to put it at the very end of the pipe where it meets the can or out a little further?

At some point here I'm going to have to draw a line - I guess I'm willing to try anything short of bending the mid-pipe.
 

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Blue, if you haven't already, try extending the middle can 1" or 1½" further than the side cans so the middle can stick out more than the side cans at the back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That which does not kill me makes me stronger...

Lazarus - good suggestion, thx. Finally got the tail light bracket back on using all 4 bolts, but I still had to grind down the 3 seat edges on the taillight bracket a good bit. Warning for you kids at home - don't even think about installing this one by yourself.

Somehow I also put a small dent in the carbon fibre of the #1 can where it meets the rear metal flange of the center pipe, not sure how or when but I don’t think it’s fatal – you can’t even see it unless you disassemble the whole thing. Ideally I’d like there to be some breathing room under the heat foil for both the midpipe and the cans, but this wasn’t possible. I also stripped the thread of the O-clamp nut on the center can.

My conclusions to-date:

The slash-cuts look great and do garner attention. They also sound great, even with the baffle in (and make no mistake I hear the roar despite my earplugs).

Finish of the Product – Just OK. In this age of modern manufacturing I guess I just expected a higher level of finish.

Overall Value of the Product Exclusive of my time - Good for the price, if I value my time at an hourly rate at $0 (hobbyist time).

Overall Value of the Product Inclusive of my time - Fair, if I value my time at any hourly rate. Despite all of the help from the members of this board, along with the original installation instructions from Trident, this is still a ‘black hole’ of an installation. Perhaps this would have been acceptable in year 2 of this Sprint ST production run, but it isn't in year 5.

Overall Design – Fair, but I’m guessing that creating a bulletproof/properly sealed/easy to install/priced right 1 into 3 carbon fibre exhaust upgrade is more difficult than it looks – otherwise we would have more and better choices after 5 years of production.
 

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Lazarus - good suggestion, thx. Finally got the tail light bracket back on using all 4 bolts, but I still had to grind down the 3 seat edges on the taillight bracket a good bit. Warning for you kids at home - don't even think about installing this one by yourself.

Somehow I also put a small dent in the carbon fibre of the #1 can where it meets the rear metal flange of the center pipe, not sure how or when but I don’t think it’s fatal – you can’t even see it unless you disassemble the whole thing. Ideally I’d like there to be some breathing room under the heat foil for both the midpipe and the cans, but this wasn’t possible. I also stripped the thread of the O-clamp nut on the center can.

My conclusions to-date:

The slash-cuts look great and do garner attention. They also sound great, even with the baffle in (and make no mistake I hear the roar despite my earplugs).

Finish of the Product – Just OK. In this age of modern manufacturing I guess I just expected a higher level of finish.

Overall Value of the Product Exclusive of my time - Good for the price, if I value my time at an hourly rate at $0 (hobbyist time).

Overall Value of the Product Inclusive of my time - Fair, if I value my time at any hourly rate. Despite all of the help from the members of this board, along with the original installation instructions from Trident, this is still a ‘black hole’ of an installation. Perhaps this would have been acceptable in year 2 of this Sprint ST production run, but it isn't in year 5.

Overall Design – Fair, but I’m guessing that creating a bulletproof/properly sealed/easy to install/priced right 1 into 3 carbon fibre exhaust upgrade is more difficult than it looks – otherwise we would have more and better choices after 5 years of production.
Bluebecomesyou

Forgive my ignorance - and as DaveM and Ond (amongst others) know, I am the least technically minded - but the centre and lefthand can look at the wrong angle to me - and as Lazarus Long suggested, if you extend the middle can out slightly then the three cans do allow themselves to get shaped into the triangular format.

From there, you need a partner (in my experience) to a) help you fashion the appropriate shape of all three cans and b) to ensure that they are all on at just the right length to seal and connect. Whilst the right cable tie would help you, a freind can help more.

Mine were as tight as a gnats chuff to get on, but when approached using the OnD instructions and a mechanic, all four bolts do go on - not easily I also found, but they do.

I think your appraisal was fair.

And well done for the perseverance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Rat, you are right sir! The pipes are still a little caddywhompus in this picture (and the focal length and angle of the pic isn't giving an accurate representation). I'll fix 'em and take some more pix.
 

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Rat, you are right sir! The pipes are still a little caddywhompus in this picture (and the focal length and angle of the pic isn't giving an accurate representation). I'll fix 'em and take some more pix.
Thank you BlueBecomesYou - at last! The mechanical (almost) recognition I crave!:ClapHappy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
W.w.s.m.d?

Should I leave'm dirty?

I love the way my slash-cut trident pipe ends look, but they get dirty really quickly (please note in this pic I have not had time to adjust the fit of the pipes ONE LAST TIME so they might look slightly off).

Whenever I have a style question about my Triumph, I always ask myself the question - What Would Steve McQueen Do?

Your thoughts please.
 

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Should I leave'm dirty?

I love the way my slash-cut trident pipe ends look, but they get dirty really quickly (please note in this pic I have not had time to adjust the fit of the pipes ONE LAST TIME so they might look slightly off).

Whenever I have a style question about my Triumph, I always ask myself the question - What Would Steve McQueen Do?

Your thoughts please.
Steve would polish them...after a hard run through the streets of San Francisco...
 
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