Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I know, I think this has been discussed a thousand times in various threads, each one giving little bits and pieces of info on related topics. What I am trying to do is figure out whether my understanding is correct or not before I start gathering up all the bits and pieces, and whether or not it is worth the money and time, and to put the info all in one place so others might not have to search as much.

Here is my front wheel, a stock 1997 trident 900 with 2 pot calipers and a fixed 296 mm rotor. Depending on your model/year of a T3 you may have 2, 4, or 6 pot fixed or sliding calipers and fixed or sliding rotors (of varying sizes). In my case, 2 pot sliding caliper and fixed rotor.



To do the conversion to 6 pot Tokico calipers I understand I will need the following:
1. Some 6 pot calipers (generally Tokico are available on Ebay) from a variety of Kawasaki, Suzuki, Triumph, Hayabusa and other bikes including but not limited to GSXR1000 K1, ZX9R, ZX6R, GSX1400, Kawasaki ZXR1200. The big issue about whether or not they will fit is their mounting distance (90mm c to c), but there are also some that mount at a weird angle off of some GSXR’s that might not work? Probably makes sense to use new pads if you are using new rotors. Cost ≈ $100 for used calipers and maybe $30 or so for pads. Sure would like to score some Alcons.
2. New rotors in 310mm size. Not often available from ebay, can be had at the triumph dealer for your arm, leg, and other body parts. EBC (model MD640) has them from various distributors for ≈ $160 per rotor. Stealth products seems to have a product available but much more expensive. Sunstar was the original mfg for Triumph and would seem to have them, but not listed anywhere I can find and you might have to go thru a triumph dealer for those. Need to make certain that you get the correct bolt pattern, correct diameter, correct center diameter, and “sliding” not fixed rotors. Is that right?
3. New lines, banjo bolts (all Triumph are 10mm x 1.25), fittings, crush washers (10mm x 3/8) etc. depending if you want to run a separate line to each caliper from the MC, or to the joint behind the headlight as originally done. While I think the dual bolt at the MC with a separate line to each caliper looks the best, from an engineering perspective I’m certain that it was done the original way (single line from the MC to a splitter behind the headlight) to equalize flow/pressure to each caliper. Unless your line length is equal, you will have greater pressure loss and less flow to the side with the longest lines, hence quicker movement to one side. Once there is resistance on the one side the pressure will equalize in the system and the other caliper will make contact. I have no idea whether that makes a difference or not, any mechanical engineers out there want to speculate?
4. New Master Cylinder, 5/8” bore. My present MC is 14mm, marked on the backside of the fluid reservoir. Some have speculated that the larger bore moves more fluid and is needed. Others have speculated that the 14mm is adequate and works fine with better feel. My guess is the original designers used the larger bore MC for a reason when they used 4 or 6 pot calipers so I should as well. Generally available for about $25 on Ebay used, or for well over $200 from various aftermarket OEM suppliers.
5. Care needs to be taken to remove the rotor bolts. Several have suggested heating up the bolt with a torch and then using only an impact wrench for removal. Factory installed rotor bolts were installed with loctite. New rotor bolts were suggested, but probably not necessary?

If I add everything up correctly the cost to do the conversion is between $500 and $600 dollars. What have I forgotten or overlooked?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
When I had my Trident I opted for the Triumph 4 piston callipers as a) I liked the look of them with the Triumph logo, b) they have very good reports and c) if they need rebuilding you need less seals!
You are right about needing ti change to larger 310mm floating discs. Can't comment on the master cylinder as I kept the original. Doing the swap gave a vast improvement over the old 2 piston jobs and was very cheap in terms of callipers as there are loads about on e-bay and go for little money if you look hard enough as any of the Triumph 4 piston callipers will fit (as far as I can tell. The ones I fitted were from a Sprint RS for example. Discs are not the same though and are like rocking horse do do).
Removed the disc bolts with a breaker bar and cleaned them up. Re applied loctite (this is a must) and job done.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
Vicar- '97 up Daytona & Speed Triple used different calipers, so won't swap with others.

Bernie- 2-pot calipers were of the sliding variety, 4- & 6-pots fixed. "Sliding" rotors are actually referred to as "floating." Sliding calipers were paired with fixed rotors, fixed calipers w/ floaters.

Re your bullet points:

1: Not sure any GSXR1000 calipers will fit, but the rest of the info looks good.

2: Essentially correct, although I noticed that several pairs of rotors showed up cheap on eBay immediately after I bought mine from Baxter for $300. :p

3: No new lines are actually required, except as specified in the maintenance schedule. That being said, braided stainless/Teflon lines are just about the best bang for the buck you can get in a brake upgrade. Argue all you want about the splitter vs. double lines from the MC vs. a loop over the wheel; whichever way you do it, stainless will make a HUGE difference.

4: I went with a 5/8" MC for my upgrade. It worked great, & I had great feel with it. I never tried the 6-pots with the 14mm MC, though, so can't really compare the 2.

5: The bolts are a *****! I ended up running with 5 bolts per rotor due to broken bolts stuck in the wheel, though that's not a course of action I can recommend.

Cheers, HTH,
-Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
... Re applied loctite (this is a must) and job done...
Interesting... When I upgraded to 4-pots on my Trident, I had to get a couple of new bolts from an independent Triumph specialist. I asked him about gluing the bolts in, and he said they never bother, so I didn't either. Why is it necessary?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Kit - I bow to your superior knowledge but the callipers I fitted to my trident were from a 2002 Sprint RS and look identical to the Daytona T595 callipers on my brothers bike.

Screene - By Loctite I mean threadlock and I always use this on brake bolts. Not just the disc nolts but also the calliper mounting bolts. The Loctite is of course the low strength thread lock type and not the high strength bearing retaining type.

The reason I had the RS callipers was a friend fitted Tockico 6 pots but I will never work out why as the brakes felt no different!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
Screene-

Ha! Mine were most decidedly installed with *red* Loctite from the factory. (That's a big part of why a couple of my original bolts didn't come out.)

You sure the bolts didn't have it pre-applied?

Red is overkill, but I'd certainly want something on there. Those are bolts you *do not* want to lose!

Cheers,
-Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Forgot to say the reason I always do now is that in the past before i did when I had a T595 I refitted the front wheel and callipers following a tyre change and fitted the calliper bolts with a small amount of copper grease on the threads as I had been doing for many years. Om the next ride out abour 10 miles in I went to brake, heard a strange clonk and lost almost all braking power. The right hand calliper had lost a bolt and swung down off the fork banging the wheel. Very scarey!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Scary stuff indeed. The 'new' bolts I fitted were used ones, because I'd chewed the heads up on a couple I took out. The rotors are both worn beyond service limit anyway, so I'll do it properly when I eventually replace them, and keep a close eye in the mean time.

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread here Berniebikes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
Vicar-

With the T5 series, Triumph changed the forks & the caliper bolt spacing on the sporty bikes. The Sprints kept the 43mm fork tubes & bolt spacing of the T3 bikes.

I concur that the calipers look the same, but they are just different enough to matter. :p

As far as the 6-pots not feeling different on an RS... You may live in an area where traffic is more sane than where I live. :eek: I could feel the difference between 4- & 6- the first time I had the RS out on the BQE with the Tokicos. Not a huge difference, but the 6-pots are definitely better. The 4-pots are very, very good, but the 6-pots edge 'em out. It's really quite easy to tell the difference: just have some moron cager slam his brakes on as you come up behind him doing double the limit on a bad road... ;)

Cheers,
-Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
I retained the original 14mm master cylinder when I did the change on my Trident (Tokico 6-pots from a ZX9R with Braking rotors), figuring that if needed the m/c could be changed later. I like the feel and can lock the front brakes if I try, so you might want to leave that item until you try out your existing m/c.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top