Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of September's Bike of the Month Challenge!
161 - 180 of 219 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
One thing I really miss about Canada is the large north American type ovens. Cant fit that into our little European ones...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
One thing I really miss about Canada is the large north American type ovens. Cant fit that into our little European ones...
When I refitted my kitchen, I repurposed the old electric oven into my garage, you can get a 1/2 unit crankcase in. Not with enough room to cook a roast dinner at the same time, like Don has😊, but it will go in.
It is used more often than you would expect.

754197
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #164 ·
Hi All, Got back into garage this afternoon. Trial fitted the right side ball on crank. Very tight fit. Have to drive it on. Use bearing splitter to pull it. Puller is powerful so no problem, but it's tight!

So tight would give me big problem to fit over crank. I know this for sure. Worst case I'll make a mandrel to screw into crank so I can draw right case onto crank.

Trial fitting C2 on '69 Bonnie drive side proved tight so I know what that feels like. It was exchanged for CN which worked perfectly. I can't do exchanges with other vendors so I try to be wise in purchase.

Roller bearing is $100 in the scope of this overhaul if I waste $100 on trial fit of roller so be it.

However... if a C3 roller is made/sold at a supply house is that the way to go?? Or is the normal CN trial fitted first better way to go?? Obviously I'd never feel the tool loose if C3 was too loose. I get I'm in a pickle here....

Back to cages. What cage material is best, or should I say to be avoided. What cage material was in rollers you installed.

Could be the plastic looking is not plastic at all??

Thanks for your patience & understanding helping me sort this out.
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
#71160510/15/17 1:48 am
Offline

John Healy
Britbike forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,637
Likes: 64
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
The timing side (ed. ball) bearing was almost always C3. The change was the roller bearing.
Answer.
Not for the 60-7362 T.S. roller bearing! It was specified as CN!

This is John Healys answer to the same question,
I would go with CN.
read JH’s comments carefully through the thread.

Does your crankshaft have high spots, or is it just towards the large side of the tolerance range.
Perhaps the crankshaft engineers that will be doing the balancing can relieve the bearing fit by a tiny amount.

Putting the Crankshaft in a plastic bag in the freezer overnight, bearing inner races in plastic bags in boiling water for 10 minutes before assembly might help. You have already killed the oven so killing the freezer should be easy😊

Cages.
I like machined cages, not the riveted together type.
I like brass because it looks nice,
I don’t like polymide cages because they look like plastic, and I am biased for no reason.
My choice would be brass machined cages, but not for any good reason.
The race guys and professional engine builders might have a better idea, i’m not certain if there is a bad choice.
Regards
Peg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #166 ·
Hi Peg thanks. My hunch is Triumph reduced diameter of right crank journal in ‘76. Taking with friend 76 motor, his crank slipped out it TS bearing as expected. Nice snug fit but not a fight at all. Had ball bearing.

I also trial fitted old DS roller to crank. To compare fits. Just right. Nice light to moderate press fit.

if TS fit this way I’d be delighted.

In the dealership we had an old electric deep fryer. Set about 300-350f. Had mix of 90w & motor oil as we used for both eng & trans.
We pressed bears, gears, syncro spiders out with hydraulic press. Often 8-10 tons+ force needed. Tight fit!!

We’d attach wire to bearing or gear etc. Drop into fryer. 5 min take out. Wipe off oil & part would easily slide over shaft. So tight the Audi spiders didn’t even use a spline! Never slipped.
Needless to say the fryer was stinky!
I expect heating inner race for TS roller it’d drop on easy.

Please refresh my memory. Inner race goes onto crank first. Install crank to left case, the drop over right case, then bearing ring, then gear& nut. is that correct?
Don

That would make it easy if clearance was good. Without seeing inner race in person I don’t know if my splitter could get behind it should I need to remove it.

Thanks again! Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #167 ·
Looking at NSK bearings. Here's what I find.

TRIUMPH 3 PIECE ROLLER T/S MAIN BEARING PT NO 60-7362 T140 TR7 T120 TR6 1971 ON | eBay
Is this plastic?

Drive bearing 60-7362 Triumph timing side roller bearings NSK NUP306ET | eBay
Plastic?

60-7362 (Triumph) (NKE Premium Quality) | eBay
Which one would arrive??

Drive bearing 60-7362 Triumph timing side roller bearings NSK NUP306ET | Steadfast Cycles
Plastic?


Triumph Crankshaft Right Main Bearing Original Equipment (mapcycle.com)
Plastic?

Triumph 3-Piece Timing Side Roller Bearing 60-7362 (classicbritishspares.com)
Koyo tin cage?

Triumph Crank Bearing Brass Cage 60-7362 Gardens NUP306-E-M1 Bearing Brass Cage | eBay
Brass cage *** India...??

Seems sellers only have this version of bearing so far as I can tell. I messaged Brandon at Steadfast Cycles. I expect he'll reply tomorrow.

I could always take inner race to Engine Dynamics & have them hone to fit if needed. I'm afraid to have balance shop reduce diameter on crank. Too hard to put metal back on... So now I need to figure out which bearing is best/most durable. Then I'll trial fit. Test clearance, go from there. Making progress!!
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #168 ·
Hi Peg & Mick, Brandon from Steadfast got back to me. His TS roller 60-7362 NSK NUP306ET has plastic cage. He's having trouble finding ones with brass cage. He finds the NSK Japan made is high quality.

What material has cages been your experiences? Seems not a lot of builders are converting to the roller.

I'm nearly 70 years, so I suppose it doesn't have to last 20 or 30 years on the plastic.
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,393 Posts
The standard ball bearing one will normally last 40,000 miles. I fitted the ball bearing type 12 years ago. I only replaced it as the other roller bearing had failed and the engine was apart. Later, when the crank snapped, i kept the bearings i had already fitted and another 8 years on. Main bearings have a long life on these engines. My engine has only had one pair in 50 years use. The bike will still be usable when you are 100 Don, just trickier to stay on it though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #170 ·
Hi All, I've been too busy to keep up with photo posting. Here's my bearings, 36k miles. Ball was bad on inner race. Hard to photo, but it's pitted bad. Oddly had a little growl cold only. I suspected bearing for the last some thousands of miles. But couldn't pin point it to right main with stethoscope or screw driver. Sounded quite. Most oddly growl went away after 1-2 miles. I expect most riders wouldn't notice. Also ride with ear plugs most of time. No ear plugs I didn't notice noise cold. The pitting looks worse in person than in photo. Just in a small area though. Of course this can lead to major failure very suddenly. If it locked & spun outer race in case, that would be really bad. A bearing about this size is used is some car transmissions. When client kept driving with noise when it let go the race would spin. New case time!

My bike had every oil change & very seldom saw over 5k for more than a moment. I took it to indicated 112mph once. In warr. Never did that again!

I'll only refit ball if fitting roller fails. With the help I'm getting I don't see that it will fail. Thanks, All!

Left main showed some miles, but was still quite good.

I will JB weld the needle roller end as well as a coat over the welch plug on rear of trans. Thanks.
Don
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #171 ·
Hi Mick, Sorry for the delay. I had to dig them out. Here's the work sheet for my rocker spindles. Some math may not quite work out. The groove walls are not exactly parallel. But pretty close are the measurements. Visually looks like shaft o-rings are the skinny version. My '73 parts book shows 60-3548.

So now, what size is the pattern your stainless pattern grooves are? I'm too lazy to go back & read all the posts.
Don
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Sorry Mick, I didn't attach my work sheet. It's there now.
Don
Hello Don,
Would you believe, I just used my last 2 stainless end caps on a motor, so can't re-measure! Still, they are copies of the old type ones I have removed, where the bottom of the groove o/d is 0.555", same as yours, but the groove width is 0.067", some 7 thou wider than yours. That said, the 70-3253 "O" rings were used to 1971, the 60-3548 being listed from 1972, though the spindle did not change until 1973 with the scrolling. Mind you, that is according to the parts books, they really have to be taken with a pinch of NaCl. I have not had a problem using 70-3253's in all instances (at least the ones I have been supplied), though I always very lightly radius the edge of the rocker hole with fine emery and assemble with grease and the factoy tool.
Cheers,
Mick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Hello Don,
Would you believe, I just used my last 2 stainless end caps on a motor, so can't re-measure! Still, they are copies of the old type ones I have removed, where the bottom of the groove o/d is 0.555", same as yours, but the groove width is 0.067", some 7 thou wider than yours. That said, the 70-3253 "O" rings were used to 1971, the 60-3548 being listed from 1972, though the spindle did not change until 1973 with the scrolling. Mind you, that is according to the parts books, they really have to be taken with a pinch of NaCl. I have not had a problem using 70-3253's in all instances (at least the ones I have been supplied), though I always very lightly radius the edge of the rocker hole with fine emery and assemble with grease and the factoy tool.
Cheers,
Mick.
Just as an update, I measured the "O" rings that I'm currently using, and they are 12mm I/D and 1.4mm X section (0.472", 0.055"), fitted to an end cap, the O/D of the ring is 0.645", but there is obviously room for the ring to be compressed sideways in the groove.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,393 Posts
That may be too general a comment.

They CAN have a long life, IF the bike owner does regular maintenance, using good quality lubricants, and doesn't thrash the engine mercilessly...
30,000 plus on mains but that might go either side. I have had to replace the roller which had failed but also replaced the good ball side. The new bearings have been in a long time so far. I doubt they will need changing in my lifetime now. I do thrash around a lot but might be slowing down as i approach 68 this year. My engine oil is now changed at under 1000 miles just because it is such a low price and i have drums of it in the garage.
I had one T120r and at 10,000 miles, the ball side had failed. It was 7 years old but had been laid up. One ball had rusted. It ran for a few minutes and the noise was enough to shut it down for rebuild. Of course, when i bought it, it was a non runner.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,530 Posts
I had one T120r and at 10,000 miles, the ball side had failed. It was 7 years old but had been laid up. One ball had rusted. It ran for a few minutes and the noise was enough to shut it down for rebuild.
Yep, regardless of how well a bike is maintained, they can go south when stored, especially if improperly stored.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
Hi Don,
I use the *** bearings, because I like the look of the brass cage.
I would not worry about the ‘India’ tag *** is German owned and one of the biggest bearing suppliers worldwide. They will have a tight reign on quality.
I always buy bearings from a bearing supplier rather than a Triumph spares dealer.
Regards
Peg.
 
161 - 180 of 219 Posts
Top