[triple3john]

Does anyone know if other Triumph calipers,such as Daytona,would fit straight onto the standard forks and be correct fit for the discs ?
It would be an easy way to improve brake performance if it does.

 

[blacktiger]

Whilst I understand you wanting to improve the brakes, there's a good reason to leave well alone.
The Tiger has a high centre of gravity. With the standard brakes the back wheel constantly comes off the ground and hops around (well mine does) because of the shift in weight to the front. Any increase in brake force will just make the forks dip even more and lift the rear wheel even further off the ground. My advice is to keep what you've got in tip top condition and save yourself a lot of money and potential hassle. Remember, it's not an R1.

 

[Outrunner]

I have to agree with Blacktiger, the front brakes are capable of lifting the back wheel so there is no real point in making them lift it quicker.


Andy.

 

[Tiger-G]

If you can lock the front wheel with standard Tiger discs, why would you want to upgrade ??

Is it that you would get better "feel" for what the brakes are doing ??

 

[triple3john]

For me the Tiger suspension and front brakes are adequate but nothing special. I must admit I've never lifted the back wheel under braking ! The brake discs,pads and fluid are all new and working perfectly,I just feel they lack feel and ultimate power. This may be affected by fork dive. I also ride a Speed Triple and obviously I understand that the Tiger is a totally different ride. Basically I've been dithering for 12 months whether to buy a 1050 Tiger for the uprated performance but the pillion and luggage provision of the 955 is better. So I've been considering upgrading suspension and brakes and keeping 'old faithful' which I've owned from new for 3½ years and 21,000 trouble free miles. I'm starting with a new rear shock from Hagon and may have gone with the brakes next,hence my question. It may be that leaving well alone is sensible....... There are plenty of Triumph calipers on ebay for not much money and I have a spare master cylinder from Speedy. It may well be that disc diameters etc are diffeent and so it may not be worth the hassle. For normal riding the bike is great,bu when pushed the whole plot is a bit vague. Winter is a god time to sort things out.

 

[winger]

You need to change springs(there are various options,mine are Ohlins)and if you ride two up go 15wt oil,brakes?? average at best,you want to really change your Tiger,take the wheels out and have a 5 1/2" rim laced on the back and 17" on front,or look for secondhand Dymags on e-bay,it'll take your bike to a world you never thought existed,touring rubber!!,sport rubber!!and then change the brakes!!

 

[Jonny955]

For me the Tiger suspension and front brakes are adequate but nothing special. I must admit I've never lifted the back wheel under braking ! The brake discs,pads and fluid are all new and working perfectly,I just feel they lack feel and ultimate power. This may be affected by fork dive. I also ride a Speed Triple and obviously I understand that the Tiger is a totally different ride. Basically I've been dithering for 12 months whether to buy a 1050 Tiger for the uprated performance but the pillion and luggage provision of the 955 is better. So I've been considering upgrading suspension and brakes and keeping 'old faithful' which I've owned from new for 3½ years and 21,000 trouble free miles. I'm starting with a new rear shock from Hagon and may have gone with the brakes next,hence my question. It may be that leaving well alone is sensible....... There are plenty of Triumph calipers on ebay for not much money and I have a spare master cylinder from Speedy. It may well be that disc diameters etc are diffeent and so it may not be worth the hassle. For normal riding the bike is great,bu when pushed the whole plot is a bit vague. Winter is a god time to sort things out.

As it happens I'm in the process of stripping, cleaning and rebuilding all 3 calipers as I do every winter (well, should really be done BEFORE the winter). My rear brake had started to 'go off' so when I stripped that, lo and behold, the leading pad (piston side) was about 50% worn whereas the other pad (sliding with the caliper) was hardly worn at all. I therefore know I had a problem with the action of the caliper on it's sliding pins.

This evening, I started to pull the front brakes apart as I have to change the fork oil and get the front end looking very empty anyway. Both front brakes were working well on the road and this was really just a precaution/male bonding session with the bike, but I did find that the leading pads were slightly more worn than the other pad on both calipers. My rebuild is therefore timely on these, too.

The point I am making is that it is possible your brakes are NOT in tip top condition even with new pads, new fluid & new discs. I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs, just commenting on my own findings! I'm also a bit paranoid about this because my first Tiger (a 93 steamer) had poor brakes and simply rebuilding them + adding braided hoses made a massive difference. After spending too many hours with seized pins etc on those, I vowed to make it an annual job so that everything would fall apart easily on the whiff of a spanner - very important if one's brakes need attention by the side of the road.

I sincerely hope all my efforts will be rewarded with better brakes when I get the old girl back on the road this weekend!

Jon

 

[The Kurgan]

Its funny this post should come up as I was just thinking about how well my low-tech 2-pot calipers grip the disks, especially compared to a number of sport bikes I've owned before, which had 4-pot calipers.

I think alot can be said about using the right pads, ensuring the lines are properly bled (no air bubbles) and using braided lines (as come stock on the Tiger).

The Tiger is no R1, but I wouldn't trade it for two R1's.

 

[Tiggerdave]

Master Cylinder Upgrade

Have a look at this chap's website. He changed the master cylinder for one from a Kawasaki. It sounds like a good mod:

http://www.adrianmolloy.com/Brakes.html

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Tiger-G]

I agree about fork dive effecting the braking. If you have to brake hard, it seems there's a short time lapse while the forks do their diving then the brakes start to work. It feels better with a gradual squeeze on the lever rather than a snatch at it.

Fork dive is not a good feeling, but you adapt your rding style to suit the bike.

If you are going for it hell for leather round the twisties, if you do all your braking on the approach to a bend, while the bike is upright and stable in a straight line, come off the brakes as you reach your bend, match your speed to the severity of the bend, so you can always stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road. Then as the bend opens up, power out the other side.

Braking hard on a big trailie half way round a bend just doesn't feel right. The bike will probably go round, but it doesn't inspire confidence, unlike a true sports bike.

Personally, it's all down to your riding style.

 

[Tiggerdave]

Big brakes and skinny tyres dont mix

Hi Again,

If you are intent on keeping the standard wheels, even with full road rubber, such as the Pilot Roads my '06 is wearing, more powerful brakes could easily overwhelm the relatively small contact patch of rubber in damp conditions.

I prefer the "forward planning" way of riding, adjusting my speed for corners by use of the throttle and gearbox, so I hardly use the brakes anyway. My Tiger likes to be ridden smooth!

Cheers,

Dave

P.S. Yes I am in the "IAM", and wear I do wear a dayglo jacket...

 

[winger]

Hi Again,

If you are intent on keeping the standard wheels, even with full road rubber, such as the Pilot Roads my '06 is wearing, more powerful brakes could easily overwhelm the relatively small contact patch of rubber in damp conditions.

I prefer the "forward planning" way of riding, adjusting my speed for corners by use of the throttle and gearbox, so I hardly use the brakes anyway. My Tiger likes to be ridden smooth!

Cheers,

Dave

P.S. Yes I am in the "IAM", and wear I do wear a dayglo jacket...

Yep i'll go with that,it's just with a change of wheels,brakes and suspension,you can change your mind if you like even mid corner,and hence why my next big traillie will either be a KTM or the new Ducati,i'm never going back to a 19" hoop

 

[triple3john]

I do adapt my riding style on the Tiger as most of the time is long trips two up,so smoothness is the key. It is solo riding,more aggressive when out with the lads,when the Tiger is not so good hence my purchase of a 2nd hand S3 a couple of years ago. As we are going on a lads trip to Europe in the summer I'm anticipating some fast riding. I would take Tigger as S3 is no use for long journeys and luggage carrying is poor due to high level can. Front and back brakes of Tigger are working properly as I had them stripped and cleaned for our last big trip and new HH pads fitted all round. I take the point about overwhelming the suspension and tyre with more powerful brakes so I guess it's plan ahead,ride smoothly and recognise limitations,which is fine although aggresive riding can also be fun. I will go with new suspension first as this may be a big enough improvement. and is a relatively cheap upgrade with Hagon.

 

[DAGAD]

Triple3. Like you most of my riding is two up and invariabley with luggage. The front brake is barely adequate, but I find it solo, works very well. Check the barrel on the Speedy master cylinder for a cast, raised number in a circle. If it says 5/8 USE THAT ONE and you will have an instant up grade which is easy and has cost you nowt.
Roy.

 

[Jonny955]

Triple3. Like you most of my riding is two up and invariabley with luggage. The front brake is barely adequate, but I find it solo, works very well. Check the barrel on the Speedy master cylinder for a cast, raised number in a circle. If it says 5/8 USE THAT ONE and you will have an instant up grade which is easy and has cost you nowt.
Roy.

Hey, DAGAD, I've heard of this before. Presumably, the master cylinder diameter changes so that there is less movement required at the lever. Presumably this will make the lever feel firmer so is more effort/less movement required? Or is it the other way around?

I found that proper bleeding of the standard system makes an immense difference. Raising the right caliper above the wheel, to eliminate the bubble trap over the mudguard, seems to be the only way. I have a rather firm lver now although it's not up there with the likes of Ducatis etc.

Jon

 

[DAGAD]

With the same effort applied to the lever, it will displace a greater volume (5/8" / 16mm instead of 14mm diameter piston) and so increases the pressure to the calipers. Much better brake... check the master cylinder for diameter on your bike, it's always cast in to the body.
Roy.

 

[robbie]

With the same effort applied to the lever,

16mm instead of 14mm diameter piston

increases the pressure to the calipers.

Hi Roy

the pressure would be less at the calipers.

the math is pressure = force / area so bigger area less pressure

I am not saying the mod is not worthwhile just your statment is the wrong way around

The mod may give you a sence that the brakes are better as it is harder to squeeze the lever.
the lever may be in a better position for you when the brakes bite so you can apply more force so improving performance.
the lever travel will be less so the brakes bite early improving feel
and in the worst case the lever will stop hitting the bars so all the force go's to the calipers

once a bloke I knew changed his master cylinder to one from a twin braked bike when he fitted a twin piston caliper. this gave him a piston twice the size and only half the brakes with not so amusing result at the end of a very short first test run.

Sorry having a bad day

 

[DAGAD]

Thanks for that Robbie. But can you explain, using your 'math' why when you fit 4 or 6 piston calipers, you use a larger dia master cylinder? If your calculations were the case, race bikes would have a 10mm dia front master cylinder and rear brakes would have a 20mm dia?

I suspect your friend did not bleed his twin piston caliper properly? Regardless of which way round it is, the mod DOES work........ Try it, you won't prove me wrong!

Roy.

 

[iansoady]

Thanks for that Robbie. But can you explain, using your 'math' why when you fit 4 or 6 piston calipers, you use a larger dia master cylinder?

Because to make the pistons move the same distance, you need to displace more fluid. Hence for the same lever movement, a larger diameter master cylinder is necessary.

 

[Jonny955]

Because to make the pistons move the same distance, you need to displace more fluid. Hence for the same lever movement, a larger diameter master cylinder is necessary.

Adding to the equation is the fact that 6-piston calipers spread the force over a larger braking area so in theory, the pressure at each piston need not be as high anyway.

With properly bled brakes & the standard Tiger master cylinder I would find it impossible to pull the lever back to the bars without disasterous results, even in the dry.