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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Gentleman, I know this is way off topic from a Triumph motorcycle but I just want you to remember something this year.

You know with the current economic crisis there are alot of people this year that are out of work. Thanksgiving and Christmas is coming and for some, without food. Please, don't forget the needs of our sisters and brothers. Give the gift of food for them this year if you don't do anything else.

Share your good fortune and seek out a food bank or shelter and give generously. It's a little light in an otherwise dismal time for them.

A little story if you don't mind:

I had a gentleman talk to me a while back and was boldly stating that he doesn't give to beggers on the street and that they had the ability to work or would just drink it away. I asked, "why he cared so much about not giving, inturn causing such pain and grief within himself and others!" I told him that giving from the heart to someone in need, gives the gift of hope, life and love.

When you give to others in need, give generously from your heart with no strings attached. It's not your care, responsibility or worry what they use it for. The point is you gave them some small amount of hope for whatever purpose.

When a man can't eat or provide for his loved ones, it's hard to concentrate on anything else. It consumes all your thoughts and actions. Without food, you become depressed physically and being depressed on top the emotional sadness they already are experiencing, almost makes life unbearable. It's a fear of what tomorrow will bring that envelopes your entire being. Give them a day without this fear and it will bless your life and their's in so many ways.

God Bless
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Interesting post. The last few times I have been approached by a pan-handler, I have offered to buy for them a burger and fries at a local fast food place. They quickly decline the offer. Sometimes they are angry about it, usually, they just thank me and walk away.

Zip
 

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Well said Skull. Every street person, and anyone else in need is our brother. Just 'cause we have a computer and a motorcycle today doesn't mean ya couldn't be in the same boat tomorrow.
 

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Interesting post. The last few times I have been approached by a pan-handler, I have offered to buy for them a burger and fries at a local fast food place. They quickly decline the offer. Sometimes they are angry about it, usually, they just thank me and walk away.
Just because they're broke doesn't mean they have to wreck their bodies as well, try offering them real food.


Well said Skull. Every street person, and anyone else in need is our brother. Just 'cause we have a computer and a motorcycle today doesn't mean ya couldn't be in the same boat tomorrow.
Hear, hear!
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Food for Thought!

The last few times I have been approached by a pan-handler, I have offered to buy for them a burger and fries at a local fast food place
Major Kong, as per you handle (from: Dr Strangelove), I take it your military affilated in some way. Is it just possible, that they have already eaten and need clothing or shelter. Sometimes it's not about food. Could it be, they are trying to stand on their own two feet and decide what they need it for instead of you making the decision for them? Maybe, you need to approach them instead, give them a little hope and conversation and treatment like a human. It's pretty degrading and humbling for them to have to depend on others for their current circumstances. Just a few defining thoughts. As a retired member of the armed forces, I'm very humbled and honored that our citizens of this country found my service beneficial enough, to give me with a small retirement but they don't tell me how to spend it. God Bless!

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Not everyone who goes to a food bank is a loser. To our shame, in Calgary, we have a food bank for serving members of the armed forces and Vets!!!!

It's good that people see the need, but that need should not exist!!!

Housing prices and rent are so high here, and the rental vacancy rate so low that many are forced into drop in centre's even when working, because they can't afford the 1,000 a month for a one bedroom apartment.

Give to your Church outreach, to your foodbank, your drop-in centers, the Sally Ann , especially in these times.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Saint or World-Class Enabler, you decide
If it's a decision you need, then Gods Word considers us all saints. Now then, it's our choice to act as such. World Class-Enablers don't really care about there fellow man, only the circumstances. Maybe, that will help define your question within yourself and others. For whatever reason for yourself, just give, does it matter?

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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I agree with both what you and your friend are saying. Have I ever given money? Yes. Have I ever bought some beers and sat with a homeless person and simply talked? Yes.

BUT....

If they are out begging with a sign that says, "Will work for food", I dare you to walk up to them and offer to buy them a meal or hand them a sandwich. I've done it and got yelled at every time.

I'm all about helping but to just give money is enabling. Enabling for the problem to continue because you have no idea how the money will be spent. You may walk away thinking you did a good deed but you never know and more than likely didn't.
 

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Perhaps alongside helping hungry fellow citizens eat people might also address the failed system that's creating the mess that's barely started yet.

Ignoring the hype, lies & nonsense of the mass media & sham elections for 'change' & learning from people of true compassion like Noam Chomsky might be a good start.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/24/noam_chomsky_what_next_the_elections
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I agree with both what you and your friend are saying. Have I ever given money? Yes. Have I ever bought some beers and sat with a homeless person and simply talked? Yes.

BUT....

If they are out begging with a sign that says, "Will work for food", I dare you to walk up to them and offer to buy them a meal or hand them a sandwich. I've done it and got yelled at every time.

I'm all about helping but to just give money is enabling. Enabling for the problem to continue because you have no idea how the money will be spent. You may walk away thinking you did a good deed but you never know and more than likely didn't.
If your expecting something in return, then it's not giving. You are looking for assurances they will spend it as you need them to spend it. That's not freely giving. I look at the way Jesus Christ gave without any attachments, how he healed the sick and suffering and expected nothing in return. Are we better then he was to question the need? Somehow I don't think so.

Please don't enter human politics into this. That's not what this is about.

Just Give.

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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What God ? what Jesus Christ? If he were real he wouldn't let them be hungry.
People give because of the good feeling it gives the giver. I don't have any problem with that but let's not dress it up in religion


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
It's my belief. Human politics or religious desires don't enter into the request. I'm sorry that there always has to be an alterative motive to human belief. But what comes from my heart has nothing to do with human desire, I suppose that some people can't understand that and are offended.

Just give of your heart this season.:)

Cheers
Jeff:motorbike2:
 

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Most beggars beg because it is easy money, People who are sick or disabled should not have to beg. It should given freely so that they get enough to eat and be cared for .
They arrested a large amount of the "homeless and hungry" in London and found most had homes and some even had a day job. If you believe in helping these people maybe instead of giving it to a bogus beggar who could start a campaign to get them the treatment or services they need.

Steve
 

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I am not offended by anyones belief. I don't agree with them in general but each has their rights to their beliefs. In reality few respect the rights of Atheists and some religious people wish to force their views on everyone. I still believe that people do things because because it makes themselves feel better about themselves far more than the good it does the receiver. Each to their own but I don't need a god to tell me right from wrong.

regards Steve
 

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If he were real he wouldn't let them be hungry.
Except for a little thing called free will.


Let's get back to the point; personal charity is one of mankind's noblest impulses. I don't like handing out food or (even less) money, but there are other ways to help those who need it. Try to find ways to help the least among us, if you can.
 

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I spent years doing voluntary work with the homeless in London used to help out in the homeless shelter in Bermondsey over Xmas and also the soup kitchens, (largely at the insistance of my first wife). There are a large amount of 'professional beggars' in London, people who would sit in the subway all day with a hat on the floor holding a placard saying "No Job, No Home, Hungry." I always felt that sitting in the subway all day was not the best way to find a job OR a home!

Most of the genuine homeless were either drug or alchohol dependent but a smaller proportion had severe psychological issues PTSD, Bi Polar etc. etc. and yes, I HAVE met homeless Falklands and Gulf war vets but to be honest, not very many. The big shelters like the one in Bermondsey wouldn`t allow any drugs or alchohol so the vast majority of the homeless used to stay away from them and sleep on the streets. During Xmas time, several would freeze to death every night in shop doorways on the strand, shunning the shelters provided.


In most western countries the state will quickly house ANY able minded 18+ non addict who is genuinely homeless. What the state usually fails to do, is provide sufficient care for its alcoholics, addicts and the mentally ill.

The other unfortunate homeless group were teenagers, too young to draw state benefits who had often ran away from abusive households. There are some great organisations are trying to help teenage runaways but sadly, the majority of these teens end up getting lured into the sex industry and a life of drugs and prostituition with no happy ending.

If you REALLY want to help these people, give money to the charities that KNOW HOW to help them, or better still donate some of your time over xmas, at a soup kitchen or shelter. You know your money will be spent wisely rather than just helping an addict feed his habit.

DO NOT give money to beggars or homeless on the street, unless you are comfortable with the fact that you may be contributing to their next wrap or shot of H, the one that`s cut so badly it might kill them or the next bottle of meths, that may finally cause their liver to fail.
 

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when I was 20s I lived in a truck for about 6 years with a fireplace for heat then in the woods in the cold for a couple more...and got about as broke as it's possible to get...this was in the era of hippies and Mother Earth News so it was noble to "put it to the man" and be a free spirit.

what I learned was lazy leads nowhere.

I don't believe in a welfare society...I believe if you don't choose to take care of yourself it's no one else's chore to carry you so you can coast.

handouts to parasites enable...if you want to teach a man to fish, introduce them to the wild foods all around us Indians and early settlers lived on for millenia...not immaturity.

when Jesus met the begger at the gate he fixed his eyes so he could function.
when asked about the pricey foot ointment he said "Let her wail...the poor will always be around."

an abused mother out in the cold in trouble is different than a professional career begger.

I firmly believe from first hand experience if you get cold/hungry enough you will find a better way...I did.

take all the "artificial social" (manmade) out of the picture and we're evolved intelligent apes who've been around for quite a while...and in nature (without man's taking artificial responsibility) the weak die off in all species...not sure who or what is behind that, but that's the cold hard reality...so it must have some purpose since everything else natural seems to be perfectly at home without man's opinion or input.

I think we create problems when we assume we are responsible for the functioning of the universe like the Eqyptian Pharoah's God on Earth thing makes the Nile flood.

so your question becomes "is the Natural right...or is the man made right?"

we need education more than lazy.
what is lazy?
what is share some with the needy?

if throwing a scrap to a begger makes YOUR day and nothing else, then we need to investigate why you want that "Holier than Thou" reward and wear it on your sleeve as a trophy.

take that begger home and give him a day job for pay...if apropo, praise the skill and diligence with grateful monetary compensation... it would do more for self esteem than buy another dime bag or MD 20-20.

...otherwise you did nothing but feather your ego.

so the question becomes "are you willing to take them home where you live and share?...or do you isolate yourself in self righteousness?"

the needy who get helped are those willing to take the step.
salvation is based on repentance...read it again.

annoying ain't it when it cuts thru the BS and right to the heart of the matter.

now..."Mr. can you help me?

and the answer is "yes I can... if YOU want it bad enough"

see the difference?
 
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