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An update on my mysterious disappearing oil where the oil consumption was increasing as my mileage increased. Visited my dealer today to see what they found out after they tore my engine apart. All three cylinder liners and all three pistons are worn beyond the service limits! The cylinder liners are now an oval shape. The pistons also rockered when they were inside the liners. The oil pump is good as are all the valve seals (except for some question on the number 1 intake valve seal). The crankshaft bearings are worn from the excessive play in the pistons. Amazingly none of this was indicated by the good leak down measurements.

As my bike exhibited oil spatter out the exhaust and some oil loss right from get go, that quality oil and regular changes were followed and that the recommended Triumph break-in schedule was followed, the thought is that something was not right with the cylinder liners from the time they were assembled in the factory. The service people have never seen wear like this before. The statement was made that this is the type of wear you may see at 60,000 kms and certainly not at 14,000.

The warranty parts are on order and I get to break in a new engine next spring again. Hopefully with the attention it is getting this time around, I won't have to worry about oil loss ever again.

As a side bonus, my complaint about the big clunk going into first and second was cleared up. The clutch plates had dry spots even at this stage of life and there were some imprints from adjacent dry plates on each other. They will be soaked for quite a time before being reinstalled.

Here are some photos of the damage to one cylinder liner:




And the other side as well!
 

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What the hell........ that is just bizarre. I am very glad you got it down this far and are finding answers to the questions.
 

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Good feedback

Great feedback Triple Ripple as yours was a really mystifying case when you brought it up and as you say you did all the right things and still had an issue.

Thank you for providing this information to everyone here and also I am happy for you that it is finally being sorted out.

My own 2004 Sprint ST now has 60,000 of hard riding kms on it and it uses about 200mls of oil every 5000kms and my exhaust is always a nice colour and very clean.

cheers,
DaveM:cool:
 

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Weird, just weird. The German motorcycle magazine Motorrad ( http://www.motorradonline.de/home ) tests bikes they riden for 50.000 km and have done so for the last 20 years. They did this with the 1050 Sprint and theirs was not even close to have that wear, infact it was so good that it managed a second place beating bikes like Honda VFR abs, BMW k 1200 S, Suzuki V-Strom 1000, Suzuki GSX-R 1000, Kawasaki ZX-10R, BMW R 1200 GS. It was only beaten by Honda CBF 1000 and that was only on cost/km.

These test look on wear and tear, pick apart the engine and measuring most parts, look at how often (if any) you have to visit the garage for repairs, cost of owning the bike (service, fuel consumtion, changing parts like brake pads and chain and so on).

Right now they are testing the Ducati 1098 and so far they had a major break down at 26.000 km with a cracked piston. :rolleyes:
 

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Bizzare and weird are appropriate!

A properly performed leak down test should have indicated an out of spec rate.

One thing that I noticed in the pics was lack of evidence of sealant on the liner to case seal areas. Did they clean it off before the pics were taken?

Is the clutch soak something your shop recommended, and if so, what is their rationale? :confused:

On a side note, once this condition began, an ordinary magnetic drain plug could have provided an indication of excessive wear. I can not understand having any engine without one. It might not prevent a problem, but it surely provides visual evidence of excessive wear.

Whatever the facts are in your situation, the important thing is that it is being taken care of via the warranty. I was glad to read that part.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I do not know how much cleaning of the sealant, if any, was done before the picture. The mechanic mentioned that there was evidence of oil getting into the coolant areas. It is hard to visualize with the head being torqued down but would a lack of sealant lead to the liners becoming loose enough for this wear to manifest? There appears to be more wear at the bottom of the sleeve as opposed to the top.

I use a magnet on my oil filter but never cut open the filter to see how much metal there may be attracted to it. Maybe it's time to change tack. As for the soak, the mechanic said he would give the plates a thorough soak before reinstalling the clutch. Will this help? There has been a recall on the clutch with other Triumphs but not with the Sprint.

And yes, I am very glad the mechanic went the extra mile and pushed Triumph for the authorization to tear down the engine :)
 

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Sealant, or lack of, does not have any bearing on liner retention. It is there to keep the oil and coolant separate.

A magnetic drain plug is a heck of a lot easier that cutting the filter open.....not as messy ether.

Soaking the clutch for some period of time before installation is a myth that never seems to go away (among others :D). Doing it will not hurt anything. Not doing it will not hurt anything either, so long as the frictions and steels are coated with oil prior to installation. Kevlar frictions are a different story.

Dolson has provided relevant and excellent advice in the sticky re engine break in procedures.

The root cause of your engine problem will be determined at the factory after they examine the parts. I doubt we will ever learn the results. As I've said before, if it is a machine, it is statistically subject to break down, no matter how well it is maintained.
 

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A guess and a little first principles...

OnD.

Just a thought, but if sealant was specified at the top of the liner, would there be any minor compensation in fit tolerances to allow for a fine layer? Even a thou?

If there was, and the sealant was missing, this may, over time be sufficient to begin to allow the liner to move fractionally.... especially if the wear is primarily at the bottom of the sleeve, where side load is greatest, which would turn the sleeve length into a lever with the deck shoulder as the fulcrum.

Just a thought

Rexx
 

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Thanks for this post Triple Ripple!!! The symptoms you experienced with your bike sound exactly like what I am currently experiencing with my 2007 Speed Triple that I bought new in June of 2007. Ever since my 12,000 mile service a few months ago, I have been using about 250 mL of oil every 1,000 miles. I now have a bit over 18,000 miles on the bike. There is also a heavy buildup of soot with an occaisional dark splatter on my pipes. I would bet my a.s.s. that what happened to your bike is happening to mine. I'll be pointing my dealer out to this thread and see what happens. Thanks again man!

Russ
 

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It looks like a typical case of debris in the cylinder. If all three cylinders are marked, you prolly got something past the filter somehow. If it's just one, it prolly came in through the plug hole.

It's not unheard of for someone to accidentally get some grit in a spark plug hole. For example, when they have the plugs removed to make spinning the crank easier when checking valve clearances.

A pic of the piston would be nice.

.
 

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It looks like a typical case of debris in the cylinder. If all three cylinders are marked, you prolly got something past the filter somehow. If it's just one, it prolly came in through the plug hole.

It's not unheard of for someone to accidentally get some grit in a spark plug hole. For example, when they have the plugs removed to make spinning the crank easier when checking valve clearances.

A pic of the piston would be nice.

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If it was only for the scratches you would be right but he has all three cylinder liners and all three pistons worn beyond the service limit and the cylinder liners being oval shaped, something that you might see in a engine pushed extremely hard for 50.000-70.000 miles, not for only 9.000 miles.
 

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Truly strange. I've never seen wear patterns like that in any of the engines I've torn down. Curioser and curioser.
 

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If it was only for the scratches you would be right but he has all three cylinder liners and all three pistons worn beyond the service limit and the cylinder liners being oval shaped, something that you might see in a engine pushed extremely hard for 50.000-70.000 miles, not for only 9.000 miles.
Crud in the intake does cause these things. The crud wedges in between the cylinder and the wall. This causes a reduction in clearance not only on the side with the crud, but the opposite side, too. The crud also causes drag which cocks and rocks the piston in the bore as it travels up and down. The result is rapid wear on the affected piston faces and oval cylinders.

You can destroy an engine much faster by reducing clearances than you can by increasing them.

.
 

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*sigh*, I'm betting I have the same issue as you.. 07, oil spatters out the exhaust, the bike runs great but just goes through oil very often. I imagine my 07 with 16k miles on it is far out of warranty, and that doesn't sound very cheap for an out-of-pocket expense. Blah! Thanks for the pics and writeup.
 

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Crud in the intake does cause these things. The crud wedges in between the cylinder and the wall. This causes a reduction in clearance not only on the side with the crud, but the opposite side, too. The crud also causes drag which cocks and rocks the piston in the bore as it travels up and down. The result is rapid wear on the affected piston faces and oval cylinders.

You can destroy an engine much faster by reducing clearances than you can by increasing them.

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I agree, it looks like the intake air was not being filtered adequately. Defect in the air box or air filter. Once the wear gets going & the damage is done it will continue even if the inlet is sealed back up.
 

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I also had a bit of spatter out the exhaust on my recently- traded '06. The wall that I back the bike up against in my garage showed definite signs of that. I also had a very disturbing rattle in what sounded like the bottom end of the motor on cold start- ups that was really bothering me.
The bike was broken in following Triumph's basic guidelines, with a few more "spirited" run- ups into the 5- 6k rpm range after the initial oil change at 700 miles, and she ran beautifully through my 14k of ownership. Minimal if any oil consumption, but that rattle always made me nervous....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I agree, it looks like the intake air was not being filtered adequately. Defect in the air box or air filter. Once the wear gets going & the damage is done it will continue even if the inlet is sealed back up.
I examined the air filter this past spring at the start of the season. I had sealed off the air intake much too late last fall and I wanted to make sure that some little furry creature had not taken up winter residence there before firing her up. The air filter looked to be in excellent shape with no evidence of grunge (apart from that little dark spot in the middle where it seems the air flow is focused by the air box) or damage. And unfortunately, the bike was already eating oil at this point in its life.

That said, I shall ask the mechanic for his thoughts on whether the air intake system may be suspect.
 

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"Bike was run in gently and had first dealer service done and oil changed twice since then so i might be inthe same boat."




I firmly believe on running them in hard and fast............

I think the manufacturers err on the side of caution, but then maybe the 'running in' interval should be longer than specified....

just my two pennarth's......
 
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